urbanSTL

^^ eh, that all sounds pretty speculative. and if it were true then Mr. Kuehling probably could have made a better case than "it looks silly." if the building were blocking stadium construction then i'd be more sympathetic since, presumably, the stadium will be an economic and cultural engine for the city. but its not blocking construction. it's slated to become empty space. the aesthetics of its continued existence are subjective. and like it or not, Abbott bought the building fair and square. if he were to sit on it forever then there might be a case for eminent domain, but currently there is not. i think this is setting a really sh*tty precedent and i think it would be a flagrant abuse of ED.

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2020

Projected ticket prices were released for the new MLS team today.

According to the memo, in the first year of operation, average ticket prices will be as follows:

• $34.50 for 20,400 general admission seats
• $40.00 for 1,600 club seats, with an additional average cost of $100 per seat for fees/amenities
• $50.00 for 600 suite seats, with an additional average cost of $112.50 per seat for fees/amenities

The stadium venue is expected to sell 92.8% of general admission tickets and 100% of club and suite tickets in the first year of operation in 2022, the memo said.  In addition, ticket prices are expected to increase at varying levels every year or two years within 5% to 10%.  The stadium is expected to hold 22,500 people, and while the capacity is not expected to change, club seating is slated to increase throughout the next decade plus.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... s_headline

I have paid 19.00 to see STLFC - this seems pretty reasonable 

Yeah no parking garage at new stadium per article in Post.

So no parking below the practice fields?

At $20,000 to 25,000 per spot I don’t think anyone is really itching to do underground parking unless you’re WashU and it’s really built for future classroom expansion.

From the Post Dispatch and Business Journal articles, it sounds like they're really relying on the Port Authority expansion (worth about $7 million), as well as still hoping for more than the 6 million "offered" by the state. As a result, they're talking about simplifying the design a bit to save money. So, it's not entirely surprising that the garage component would be nixed.

Summarizing from the articles:
The team is confident the (port authority) expansion will happen and is counting on the revenue from that....there really isn’t a contingency plan. There has been a tremendous amount of pencil sharpening and erasing and relooking at things by the stadium design team as a result of the state’s decision not to grant the group’s full $30 million request for tax credits. We’ll figure it out. I mean, it will get built but it may not be as good as what you’ve seen in these pictures.

And regarding the Abbot Property:
The Port Authority legislation also involves the possible use of eminent domain at one property in the stadium development’s footprint, 2008-2012 Olive St. But, that would only occur after good faith attempts to acquire the property through private negotiation. The ownership group is optimistic it will work out a deal for the property without the need for eminent domain. That is certainly the team’s hope.

Specifically regarding the garage:
There could be a future parking structure to replace two surface lots that will make way for the project, but the stadium’s expected 30 events a year wouldn’t produce enough revenue to justify a garage. He said there already is a large amount of parking to the north and west of the site.

Tim wrote: ↑

Feb 13, 2020

From the Post Dispatch and Business Journal articles, it sounds like they're really relying on the Port Authority expansion (worth about $7 million), as well as still hoping for more than the 6 million "offered" by the state. As a result, they're talking about simplifying the design a bit to save money. So, it's not entirely surprising that the garage component would be nixed.

Summarizing from the articles:
The team is confident the (port authority) expansion will happen and is counting on the revenue from that....there really isn’t a contingency plan. There has been a tremendous amount of pencil sharpening and erasing and relooking at things by the stadium design team as a result of the state’s decision not to grant the group’s full $30 million request for tax credits. We’ll figure it out. I mean, it will get built but it may not be as good as what you’ve seen in these pictures.

And regarding the Abbot Property:
The Port Authority legislation also involves the possible use of eminent domain at one property in the stadium development’s footprint, 2008-2012 Olive St. But, that would only occur after good faith attempts to acquire the property through private negotiation. The ownership group is optimistic it will work out a deal for the property without the need for eminent domain. That is certainly the team’s hope.

Specifically regarding the garage:
There could be a future parking structure to replace two surface lots that will make way for the project, but the stadium’s expected 30 events a year wouldn’t produce enough revenue to justify a garage. He said there already is a large amount of parking to the north and west of the site.

There is plenty of parking downtown.  People are lazy and don't want to walk more than a block.

Plenty of parking. I think a good partnership could be with Wells Fargo for weekend events. Their massive garages and a few MetroBus shuttles could really relieve a lot of traffic stress near the stadium.

Also thousands of spots at the Metro park-n-ride across the region.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Feb 13, 2020

At $20,000 to 25,000 per spot I don’t think anyone is really itching to do underground parking unless you’re WashU and it’s really built for future classroom expansion.

Except it isn't really underground parking.  Most of the excavation work for a garage is already done, and what isn't will have to be graded or removed anyway as much of it is a big pile of MoDOT rubble.  Also, the garage was to be more or less open on at least three sides.  The only added cost would be the drainage / waterproofing of the top level.

Question though:  If they don't put a garage there, south of Market, how are they going to bring that ramp valley up to grade?  Or will they just build their practice fields down in the hole?

I like the idea of pushing the parking into the DTW area.  I'm sure restaurant and bar owners feel the same way.  Bring the area SoM up to grade.  Without a huge concrete structure to remove the future may hold much more than practice fields for the parcel.

STLinCHI wrote: ↑

Feb 14, 2020

I like the idea of pushing the parking into the DTW area.  I'm sure restaurant and bar owners feel the same way.  Bring the area SoM up to grade.  Without a huge concrete structure to remove the future may hold much more than practice fields for the parcel.

That isn't going to be cheap either.

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Feb 14, 2020

STLinCHI wrote: ↑

Feb 14, 2020

I like the idea of pushing the parking into the DTW area.  I'm sure restaurant and bar owners feel the same way.  Bring the area SoM up to grade.  Without a huge concrete structure to remove the future may hold much more than practice fields for the parcel.

That isn't going to be cheap either.

I'm not quite sure if I grasp the scale and scope of how much area would be involved in bringing the area SoM up to grade but you could look at what they did with Tucker Ave when they eliminated the rail tunnel underneath, essentially a cheaper but effective foam block fill.  But like you noted, that is not exactly cheap either over a large area and you literally can't build structure on it over the long run without having to dig and remove it all.  
. 
I do see the foam block method (if I got the terminology correct) as a cost effective means to replace Market Street bridge over old 22nd parkway with rebuilt blvd at grade.. 

I assume the dirt they dig out of the new stadium site will be used to fill in Aloe Plaza West and under Market.  Interested to see how the team offices at street level dovetail with the practice field elevation SoM.  Hoping the entire south side of Market can have a streetwall from 20th street west.  

dredger wrote: ↑

Feb 14, 2020

. 
I do see the foam block method (if I got the terminology correct) as a cost effective means to replace Market Street bridge over old 22nd parkway with rebuilt blvd at grade.. 

Extruded polystyrene.  It's basically the same stuff as the styrofoam peanuts they used to use as shipping material, albeit with different formulas for different applications.  It is much more expensive than soil and gravel, but greatly reduces the need for a concrete base, retaining walls, etc.  It's great for tunnels, but not very large volumes like this.

And I believe the loading docks and service access for the stadium are going to be at least partly under the new Market Street. 

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/02/ ... vised-deal

I don’t think this is celebrated enough... but we out matched Nashville when it comes to MLS in almost every single way. NOT TO MENTION almost two years after being awarded a team, they’re breaking ground at the same time as STL.

St. Louis and MLS4LOU
- Actual downtown neighborhood
- Remove car centric infrastructure + no new parking
- Big investments in public space
- Transit accessible
- Unique design
- Privately funded

Nashville
- not downtown
- expanding infrequently needed infrastructure + 1000s of new parking spots
- minimal investment in public space
- not transit accessible
- boring design
-$50m in public financing




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Not trying to be rude but that is one fugly stadium that’s going to get built in Nashville.


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^^Funny, Nashville has sold over 30k tickets to the opener, so they are opening more seating at Nissan Stadium - a perfectly good outdoor stadium across the river from downtown Nashville.  And yet they are going to spend $275 million (up to $54 million of public funding) to build a new 27.5k seat MLS stadium out at the Nashville Fairgrounds...? 

After the MLS fell all over itself granting a franchise to David Tepper to play in his NFL stadium, and constantly rave about their NFL stadium situations in Seattle and Atlanta, I am a bit surprised they didn't all hit pause on the new soccer-specific Nashville stadium... 

Sports commission has a great view and will be updating frequently! A lot of progress has already been made.

..