Unless there are some major announcements with corporations expanding or relocating to the city, without new jobs to attract new residents, I don't see any of these major developments ever meeting their grand renderings. NGA and Square might help with this, but I think we'll need that momentum to continue for there to be enough demand for this many residential units.
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Didn’t we add more jobs than the national average, by a considerable amount, over the last year?chaifetz10 wrote:Unless there are some major announcements with corporations expanding or relocating to the city, without new jobs to attract new residents, I don't see any of these major developments ever meeting their grand renderings. NGA and Square might help with this, but I think we'll need that momentum to continue for there to be enough demand for this many residential units.
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Possibly - but one year wont create the market demand that some of these projects need to succeed.
If Detroit and Cincinnati can build up their respective riverfront districts in a few years. I don't see why St. Louis' economy would negatively influence residential growth on the riverfront. Many times St. Louis uses the excuse that it can't build things because of it's economy, but the reality is that it's often a result of poor planning, vision, and leadership. Seriously, what about the St. Louis economy makes it feasible to build thousands of housing and shopping districts on the fringes of the region? I think a bet on the urban core, specifically a neighborhood as unique as the North Riverfront, is one of the smartest development risks to take in the region.
The Banks Cincinnati
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Orleans Landing Detroit
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The Banks Cincinnati
Orleans Landing Detroit
With that said, 5,000 residents is a lofty goal. In reality, 2,500 would go a long way to fill in this district. Renovating the older buildings and infilling with garden apartments or townhomes would totally transform the north riverfront.
I’m excited to see the plans here. Between this and Chouteau Landing, it’s about time that we invest in the Riverfront.
Any news on Chouteau Landing?chriss752 wrote:I’m excited to see the plans here. Between this and Chouteau Landing, it’s about time that we invest in the Riverfront.
That’s for later this year.goat314 wrote:Any news on Chouteau Landing?chriss752 wrote:I’m excited to see the plans here. Between this and Chouteau Landing, it’s about time that we invest in the Riverfront.
Have you seen the plans? Are we looking at total transformation and simply rehab?chriss752 wrote:That’s for later this year.goat314 wrote:Any news on Chouteau Landing?chriss752 wrote:I’m excited to see the plans here. Between this and Chouteau Landing, it’s about time that we invest in the Riverfront.
Message me so this thread can be kept on the Lacledes Landing topic.goat314 wrote:Have you seen the plans? Are we looking at total transformation and simply rehab?chriss752 wrote:That’s for later this year.goat314 wrote: Any news on Chouteau Landing?
Regarding the new developers for up to 5000 residents, I contacted the developer. There will definitely be new construction but size and style haven't been determined yet. Right now, their focus is on the renovation of older buildings and beautification of the area. The beautification will be repaving some roads, cleaning up vacant lots, repaving parking lots (where needed), installing new street lights, and building new sidewalks. That's for the area North of Lumiere Place. The main Laclede's Landing area will have improvements once construction starts on their rehabs in this area.
I also said that 5 years seems too ambitious for something like this and the response was, "We've seen a lot of comments like that. We will prove that we can get it done".
I also said that 5 years seems too ambitious for something like this and the response was, "We've seen a lot of comments like that. We will prove that we can get it done".
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That's great - I love the optimism.chriss752 wrote:Regarding the new developers for up to 5000 residents, I contacted the developer. There will definitely be new construction but size and style haven't been determined yet. Right now, their focus is on the renovation of older buildings and beautification of the area. The beautification will be repaving some roads, cleaning up vacant lots, repaving parking lots (where needed), installing new street lights, and building new sidewalks. That's for the area North of Lumiere Place. The main Laclede's Landing area will have improvements once construction starts on their rehabs in this area.
I also said that 5 years seems too ambitious for something like this and the response was, "We've seen a lot of comments like that. We will prove that we can get it done".
It would be nice to see the Landing continue to add businesses/employers as residential starts to take off there.
This will be pretty phenomenal if they can make this happen. The optimism is fantastic. But, unless they're sitting on mounds of their own cash that they can spend however they choose, the lenders/economy/market is going to have a lot to say about whether or not this can actually be pulled off over the next 5 years. I support their fervor and vision though! Godspeed!
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agree with this...UK cities do far more with less of an economic engine...goat314 wrote: ↑Sep 28, 2019If Detroit and Cincinnati can build up their respective riverfront districts in a few years. I don't see why St. Louis' economy would negatively influence residential growth on the riverfront. Many times St. Louis uses the excuse that it can't build things because of it's economy, but the reality is that it's often a result of poor planning, vision, and leadership. Seriously, what about the St. Louis economy makes it feasible to build thousands of housing and shopping districts on the fringes of the region? I think a bet on the urban core, specifically a neighborhood as unique as the North Riverfront, is one of the smartest development risks to take in the region.
The Banks Cincinnati
Orleans Landing Detroit
^ I don't think the examples for Detroit and Cincy go much beyond and maybe even less then what St. Louis and the region has put into the Arch Grounds and what improvements Greenway District is putting into Laclede Landing to improve Arch Grounds connection to the north riverfront trail/north riverfront
You will see a significant landing investment and probably much more sustainable development if Abstract Marketing (if I got name correct) can continue expanding their employee count, some of the rehab projects come together and Drury pulls trigger on new infill/tower. I also see Convention expansion/upgrade and Square's innovative district being a plus for landing. I also think the outcome will be much more exciting for the riverfront then what you see with Cincy above, a park between two stadiums.
As far as Chouteau Landing. The reality in my mind is that growth is not large enough to see development on both ends of Arch Grounds in the near future. Hopefully private development can focus on keeping Laclede's momentum going while the South Riverfront connection to the Chouteau Greenway starts to come together.
You will see a significant landing investment and probably much more sustainable development if Abstract Marketing (if I got name correct) can continue expanding their employee count, some of the rehab projects come together and Drury pulls trigger on new infill/tower. I also see Convention expansion/upgrade and Square's innovative district being a plus for landing. I also think the outcome will be much more exciting for the riverfront then what you see with Cincy above, a park between two stadiums.
As far as Chouteau Landing. The reality in my mind is that growth is not large enough to see development on both ends of Arch Grounds in the near future. Hopefully private development can focus on keeping Laclede's momentum going while the South Riverfront connection to the Chouteau Greenway starts to come together.
The Drury parcel is now owned by the Port Authority.
Chouteau’s Landing plans are being worked on.
Chouteau’s Landing plans are being worked on.
Certainly hope something works out sooner for Chouteau's Landing but plans being worked on and what demand will support is two different things. Some great plans have come and gone for Bottleworks District as well. What I think is better is one landing seeing strong development even if it means that development on the other landing will happen later. Bummer on Drury but still think Laclede Landing is in better position and hope anything in Chouteau doesn't take away from Laclede with end result being two partially developed landings neither getting criticial mass to encourage infill like you see with CWEchriss752 wrote: ↑Oct 22, 2019The Drury parcel is now owned by the Port Authority.
Chouteau’s Landing plans are being worked on.
Gets back to my argument that I'm not sure how much commercial/retail/entertainment development can be supported in central & mid town corridor on the near term when you got Cortex/Wexford, Cortex K, Foundry, Armory and Iron Will competing for same tenants. I think you can say the same for Laclede, Chouteau, west downtown, and Lafayette Park without a big influx of jobs coming downtown.
"Momentum Continues on Laclede’s Landing as Rapid Growth at Blue stingray Leads to Opening of New Technology Training Hub"
https://stlouiscnr.com/momentum-continu ... dium=email
https://stlouiscnr.com/momentum-continu ... dium=email
Advantes Group renovating Greeley Building at 618-624 North Second Street and the Hoffman Brothers Produce Building at 700 North Second Street into 76 apartments and street-level commercial space.
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... the-latest
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... the-latest
Greeley and Hoffman buildings redevelopment plan goes to the Planning Commission for approval tomorrow.
Tax abatement is worth 75% for 10 years based on the assessed value of incremental improvements.This is a redevelopment plan is 0.43 acres in size and is currently two five-story vacant buildings. The plan would allow for the redevelopment of these two buildings for first floor commercial and a total of 76 apartments. The rents will range from $1.50-1.70/square foot and studio apartments will start at 556 square feet. While no tenants have been secured for the 1st floor spaces yet, the developers indicated there is some desire to put a museum, or some sort of retail or restaurant.
The Strategic Land Use Plan (SLUP) designation is Specialty Mixed Use Area (SMUA). The SLUP states that this is where the City’s landscape is unique and “where businesses, residents, arts and other entertainment coexist and thrive together.” Given that this designation emphasizes the preservation of the unique mix of uses, and this project aims to increase the density within that mixed use designation, PDA Staff finds the plan in conformity with Strategic Land Use Plan’s SMUA designation.
Additionally, the site is located within the Downtown Development Action Plan Neighborhood Plan area. The plan designates this site as located within the Laclede’s Landing/Riverside District which aims to support rehabilitation of historic buildings for loft, office and retail uses, expanding on the District’s entertainment facilities sand creating new residential units and providing support services for residents and workers. PDA Staff finds the plan in conformity with the Downtown Development Action Plan.
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I've always thought a Coffee Museum would fit in really well in the Landing. Just take the History Museum Coffee exhibit from a few years ago and put it in one of those first floors. Second floor can be something more experiential like areas for cupping, cappuccino art classes, a gift shop, and cafe. The more instagramable the better.
Kaldi's is probably the only company with the capital and credibility to pull off a project like this. Maybe Blueprint.
This could be relatively cheap to pull off and be an instant attraction to draw people into the Landing.
Kaldi's is probably the only company with the capital and credibility to pull off a project like this. Maybe Blueprint.
This could be relatively cheap to pull off and be an instant attraction to draw people into the Landing.
They’re vision is bigger than I thought. The post dispatch has a nice story on their plans.
You can read it here: https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... dcac4.html
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You can read it here: https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... dcac4.html
Looks awesome. Would be nice if STL had the kind of growth that could support these kind of dreams.
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Seems strange to talk about converting 2nd to pedestrian only, then building a completely inappropriate driving range fronting the street just a block away.
I wish them the best. I would be thrilled just to see the current stock of historical buildings brought back to life.
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I wish them the best. I would be thrilled just to see the current stock of historical buildings brought back to life.
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Whoa... Got to give them credit for being ambitious. I'd like to see them get more hits before I get ambitious over them hitting home runs any time soon.
Regarding their parking concerns, I'd think the best place would be the least favorite footprints for residential. Remember Brad & Gwenyth's apartment in Se7en? How it shook when the subway went by? That'd certainly be worse for freight trains. There's already the Riverfront Garage, along the tracks (also the first spot on the Landing to be hit when the river floods). They could also act to deaden the train sounds. If I were them, I'd give a serious look at the existing surface lots along 1st Street north of Carr and north of Biddle. What about the Ameren transformer station between Biddle & O'Fallon? Would that be relocated?
Very interested to see progress made on the "Bottle Works" site as well as the Landing itself.
Shot in the dark but... Any chance they could bring back some iteration of Mississippi Nights?
Regarding their parking concerns, I'd think the best place would be the least favorite footprints for residential. Remember Brad & Gwenyth's apartment in Se7en? How it shook when the subway went by? That'd certainly be worse for freight trains. There's already the Riverfront Garage, along the tracks (also the first spot on the Landing to be hit when the river floods). They could also act to deaden the train sounds. If I were them, I'd give a serious look at the existing surface lots along 1st Street north of Carr and north of Biddle. What about the Ameren transformer station between Biddle & O'Fallon? Would that be relocated?
Very interested to see progress made on the "Bottle Works" site as well as the Landing itself.
Shot in the dark but... Any chance they could bring back some iteration of Mississippi Nights?