^Not sure if you're aware, but it was actually originally designed as a dentist's office.
This is well known as the first "International Style" building in the region. Regardless of the architect, this fact would not be forgotten. Also keeping in mind that the call for preservation also extends to maintaining the best row of historic streetfront retail in all of Clayton.jbacott wrote: Maybe I'm an architectural rube, but my initial reaction is that, if this exact same building was built by a non-descript guy named Bob Smith to lease to an orthodontist, no one would sweat tearing it down.
There is nothing visually appealing about it, and it's basically the polar opposite of the walkable, street-focused properties that many on this forum rightfully value.
Apologies for the twitter link but I'm too lazy to upload this image to Flickr right now. This would be a much better and more interesting outline for the new building/tower. And let's be honest, if it weren't for the garage podium, most of this demolition wouldn't be considered.
I consider myself a preservationist generally, but I have to agree with you on this one. I have been in that building many times- there is nothing original or architecturally significant left inside, the exterior has no context with neighboring buildings or the streetscape in general, and the building could be very easily re-built with modern materials. I bet it was awesome when new when the interior and exterior worked in harmony, but what is left is a nondescript shell. If it could be moved, peace, but I think considering the condition and simplicity you would be better off just rebuilding it from scratch vs moving it.jbacott wrote: ↑Feb 21, 2019Maybe I'm an architectural rube, but my initial reaction is that, if this exact same building was built by a non-descript guy named Bob Smith to lease to an orthodontist, no one would sweat tearing it down.
There is nothing visually appealing about it, and it's basically the polar opposite of the walkable, street-focused properties that many on this forum rightfully value.
I get and understand the heartburn about tearing down the retail strip on Central. That part has some visual appeal and obviously is configured for ideal interaction with the street. Would be good to use that as the base for the high-rise development, if possible.
I'm with you two. The retail strip along Central however, gives me some reservations.tztag wrote: ↑Feb 22, 2019I consider myself a preservationist generally, but I have to agree with you on this one. I have been in that building many times- there is nothing original or architecturally significant left inside, the exterior has no context with neighboring buildings or the streetscape in general, and the building could be very easily re-built with modern materials. I bet it was awesome when new when the interior and exterior worked in harmony, but what is left is a nondescript shell. If it could be moved, peace, but I think considering the condition and simplicity you would be better off just rebuilding it from scratch vs moving it.jbacott wrote: ↑Feb 21, 2019Maybe I'm an architectural rube, but my initial reaction is that, if this exact same building was built by a non-descript guy named Bob Smith to lease to an orthodontist, no one would sweat tearing it down.
There is nothing visually appealing about it, and it's basically the polar opposite of the walkable, street-focused properties that many on this forum rightfully value.
I drive by this building almost every day and never noticed it before. I drove by with my wife today and told her some want to save it. She didn’t really understand why. It doesn’t fit with anything around it and to me looked in rough shape. I get wanting to save some buildings but this one I wouldn’t lose sleep over. I can get more behind saving the N central storefronts. At minimum I would expect them to be replaced with street level retail in the new building.
Has it ever crossed anyone's mind that Fred Kummer could resurrect the Adams Mark hotel chain for the hotel component of this project? I'm not sure if he still owns the name anymore but the chain was once connected to him. If not the Adams Mark brand, I can see a Conrad by Hilton or Waldorf Astoria coming here based on how Kummer wanted to redevelop his building in Creve Couer into a Tapestry by Hilton hotel. I guess we will see as time goes on but I know the development team won't want some cheap or budget brand here. At very least they are aiming for a 4-star hotel.
Waldorf's are like the Ritz. Do you think Clayton can support another hotel of that stature?chriss752 wrote: ↑Mar 04, 2019Has it ever crossed anyone's mind that Fred Kummer could resurrect the Adams Mark hotel chain for the hotel component of this project? I'm not sure if he still owns the name anymore but the chain was once connected to him. If not the Adams Mark brand, I can see a Conrad by Hilton or Waldorf Astoria coming here based on how Kummer wanted to redevelop his building in Creve Couer into a Tapestry by Hilton hotel. I guess we will see as time goes on but I know the development team won't want some cheap or budget brand here. At very least they are aiming for a 4-star hotel.
^ No way it'll be a Waldorf. Maybe a mid to upper-tier Hilton or Marriott. But with hotels like the Four Seasons, the Ritz, and the Chase I'm not sure St. Louis has the need for another ultra-luxury hotel like a Waldorf.
Very offtopic and can't talk about the Four Seasons or the Ritz, but I have stayed at the Chase a couple of times and I would certainly not call it ultra-luxury. The first time I stayed there (and this was after the Sonesta rebranding), the furniture in my room was dusty and they did not have a proper laundry service. Sorry, end of rant.
I can't speak to your experience at the Chase, but I've not had any issues, granted I usually save the dirty laundry for when I return home. And I suppose each person's definition of "ultra-luxury" may be different. I travel a lot for work and my usual hotel is a rundown Hampton Inn or LaQuinta, so a little dust at the Chase isn't going to turn me off.
The Chase, Four Seasons, the Ritz, Hyatt Regency, Ignacio, Marriott Grand, Magnolia, Moonrise, River City, Union Station, and the Westin are all AAA Four Diamond Hotels, at one time the Four Seasons was a AAA Five Diamond. Though I'd put those first three above the rest. Either way, outside of a boutique brand or something like that, I can't see a large brand like a Waldorf coming to St. Louis.
The Chase, Four Seasons, the Ritz, Hyatt Regency, Ignacio, Marriott Grand, Magnolia, Moonrise, River City, Union Station, and the Westin are all AAA Four Diamond Hotels, at one time the Four Seasons was a AAA Five Diamond. Though I'd put those first three above the rest. Either way, outside of a boutique brand or something like that, I can't see a large brand like a Waldorf coming to St. Louis.
Maybe Hilton's new Signia brand could make an appearence here,
https://www.hilton.com/en/signia-hilton/
On another note, soil testing is to continue tomorrow. This drill was there yesterday. A decent height too.
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https://www.hilton.com/en/signia-hilton/
On another note, soil testing is to continue tomorrow. This drill was there yesterday. A decent height too.
I would be surprised if it did.chriss752 wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2019Maybe Hilton's new Signia brand could make an appearence here,
https://www.hilton.com/en/signia-hilton/
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More info on Hilton Signia: https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-New ... r-meetings
I see John P fields is moving across the street to the old wheelhouse. So that is one tenet we know where they are going. That move surprised me a little bit. I figured that building would be demolished before anyone moved in.
Sounds like this has been downsized. Hotel has been removed from the plans for the time being.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... plans.html
Businessman Fred Kummer has nixed plans to build a hotel on the half-acre site in Clayton he acquired earlier this year. Instead, the founder and CEO of HBE Corp. will talk with city officials about adding retail, restaurant and/or entertainment options on the Central Avenue side of the redevelopment area. He is still moving forward with plans to build luxury condominiums on Bemiston Avenue and estimates the project will now cost roughly $170 million.
"We concluded the site was simply not large enough for the dense usage of both a hotel and condominium building, and there would have been a heavier burden of traffic in the area," said Kummer, adding that he also took community response into consideration with his decision.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... plans.html
Businessman Fred Kummer has nixed plans to build a hotel on the half-acre site in Clayton he acquired earlier this year. Instead, the founder and CEO of HBE Corp. will talk with city officials about adding retail, restaurant and/or entertainment options on the Central Avenue side of the redevelopment area. He is still moving forward with plans to build luxury condominiums on Bemiston Avenue and estimates the project will now cost roughly $170 million.
"We concluded the site was simply not large enough for the dense usage of both a hotel and condominium building, and there would have been a heavier burden of traffic in the area," said Kummer, adding that he also took community response into consideration with his decision.
The Mayor wrote:Sounds like this has been downsized. Hotel has been removed from the plans for the time being.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... plans.html
Businessman Fred Kummer has nixed plans to build a hotel on the half-acre site in Clayton he acquired earlier this year. Instead, the founder and CEO of HBE Corp. will talk with city officials about adding retail, restaurant and/or entertainment options on the Central Avenue side of the redevelopment area. He is still moving forward with plans to build luxury condominiums on Bemiston Avenue and estimates the project will now cost roughly $170 million.
"We concluded the site was simply not large enough for the dense usage of both a hotel and condominium building, and there would have been a heavier burden of traffic in the area," said Kummer, adding that he also took community response into consideration with his decision.
Well... hopefully the condo building is designed nicely. And if he wants retail and entertainment space, just leave the buildings along Central in contact.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/col ... 415a2.html
I want to save so much in this city, but this one just doesn't make it on my list.
I certainly respect the passion the supporters have for it though.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I want to save so much in this city, but this one just doesn't make it on my list.
I certainly respect the passion the supporters have for it though.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Plans were released on the City of Clayton's website. VERY underwhelming building for the price. The architectural review board reviews this at the May 20th meeting.
Units: 110 Condos
Height: 234FT
Materials: Brick and Stone
Renderings...
Units: 110 Condos
Height: 234FT
Materials: Brick and Stone
Renderings...
+1
Yuck. 1960. It's horrible. Looks like the old biddies on Hanley. Looks like public housing project-ish. The PJs. Awful.
It looks like a much cheaper version of the condos at Brentwood and Maryland or the canceled Trianon project. Yuck.
I agree with the South Beach Miami comment. Pink Salmon buildings have no business in any skyline outside of Florida and California.