I'm a bit unclear as to whose responsibility it is for the Keiner Plaza epic failure.... I think that may be the Gateway Arch Foundation or whatever its called. (And I think Citygarden maintenance also is in seperate private hands.) Regardless, City administration and Downtown STL need to get on some asses to clean up this unacceptable situation.... I don't think there are many cities in America that would allow trash in supposedly downtown jewels to not get picked up in a reasonable manner.DogtownBnR wrote: ↑Aug 13, 2018^ I feel like this is an indictment of the current administration. Seems to be a recurring theme throughout the City. While the budget is always strained, there is no excuse for not making sure our City's front lawn is not in order for the countless tourists that visit each year. Inexcusable how bad Kiener looked yesterday!
With the lack of landscaping, bad roads, slow trash pick-up (in dumpsters and litter off the streets) and crime, clearly City Hall needs a shake-up!
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Residents using parks for recreation and enjoyment is not the same as residents using parks while disobeying city ordinances and park rules that are a detriment to the park its surroundings.
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^ I have to agree with Downtown2007 on this issue.
I called the Citizen's Service Bureau on the mess in and around Kiener Plaza. They deferred me to the DowntownSTL Partnership. I called them. They said that Great Rivers Greenway is responsible for Kiener Plaza. However, they contract out to the City of St. Louis to keep it clean. Then the rep from DowntownSTL said that they are responsible for the streets and sidewalks around Kiener and City Garden. This is quite the convoluted mess if you ask me. You have all of these organizations responsible for different areas of Downtown. Maybe that is the problem! Too many organizations involved. The rep acknowledged that this is not acceptable and provided me with her email address. She asked me to summarize my experience so she can pass this information on to the correct parties and get this issue resolved.
If anyone would like this email address, feel free to PM me.
I called the Citizen's Service Bureau on the mess in and around Kiener Plaza. They deferred me to the DowntownSTL Partnership. I called them. They said that Great Rivers Greenway is responsible for Kiener Plaza. However, they contract out to the City of St. Louis to keep it clean. Then the rep from DowntownSTL said that they are responsible for the streets and sidewalks around Kiener and City Garden. This is quite the convoluted mess if you ask me. You have all of these organizations responsible for different areas of Downtown. Maybe that is the problem! Too many organizations involved. The rep acknowledged that this is not acceptable and provided me with her email address. She asked me to summarize my experience so she can pass this information on to the correct parties and get this issue resolved.
If anyone would like this email address, feel free to PM me.
Right? Everyone's gotta get paid!
I complain about the bureaucratic duplicity in the county municipalities, but nothing different going on here. How many Downtown organizations do we have?
Downtown Neighborhood Association, Downtown St. Louis, Inc., Downtown Economic Development Agency, Downtown STL Partnership.
Jesus, isn't there an alderman to make sure all of this stuff gets taken care of through maintenance channels and facilities/grounds management? Why must we speak through so many diluted and powerless channels?
I complain about the bureaucratic duplicity in the county municipalities, but nothing different going on here. How many Downtown organizations do we have?
Downtown Neighborhood Association, Downtown St. Louis, Inc., Downtown Economic Development Agency, Downtown STL Partnership.
Jesus, isn't there an alderman to make sure all of this stuff gets taken care of through maintenance channels and facilities/grounds management? Why must we speak through so many diluted and powerless channels?
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Seems like these organizations could get a lot more done if they joined forces.
I would almost bet there are differing agendas and egos that prevent that from happening. It could be that these groups just do not have one leader above them all that can bring them together. . . . It would be nice if we had a Mayor willing to intervene.
I would almost bet there are differing agendas and egos that prevent that from happening. It could be that these groups just do not have one leader above them all that can bring them together. . . . It would be nice if we had a Mayor willing to intervene.
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I personally like Coatar and think hes one of the better Alderman. But one of the issues I always have in the 7th ward is that all the candidates always live in Soulard/Laf Square. Naturally they will be biased towards those neighborhoods. I personally wish we had a special downtown district alderman. Regardless of residential size, we should have someone focusing day in/day out on the most important neighborhood in our city.bwcrow1s wrote: ↑Aug 15, 2018Right? Everyone's gotta get paid!
I complain about the bureaucratic duplicity in the county municipalities, but nothing different going on here. How many Downtown organizations do we have?
Downtown Neighborhood Association, Downtown St. Louis, Inc., Downtown Economic Development Agency, Downtown STL Partnership.
Jesus, isn't there an alderman to make sure all of this stuff gets taken care of through maintenance channels and facilities/grounds management? Why must we speak through so many diluted and powerless channels?
^ I feel like all of this is easily solvable with a private operator that takes care of city trash.
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DNA is a neighborhood association as the name indicates, lead by a board of 9 volunteersbwcrow1s wrote: ↑Aug 15, 2018Right? Everyone's gotta get paid!
I complain about the bureaucratic duplicity in the county municipalities, but nothing different going on here. How many Downtown organizations do we have?
Downtown Neighborhood Association, Downtown St. Louis, Inc., Downtown Economic Development Agency, Downtown STL Partnership.
Downtown St.Louis, Inc and Downtown STL partnership are the same thing- one is a CID and another manages that CID but its the same staff
and Downtown Economic Development agency doesn't exist according to google.
Just to offer a countering point of view, I was downtown around CityGarden and Kiener Plaza several times in early July and did not notice any trash at all.
Looks like Big Baby Q is leaving Maryland Heights and heading downtown 
https://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/ ... 4f601.html
https://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/ ... 4f601.html
I was under the impression that the Wheelhouse/Start Bar group were taking that space...
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 4e3c7.html
The key word here was "partners""I will begin a new adventure early 2019," Welch writes in a Facebook post. "I’ll be teaming up with 'partners' to bring potentially the largest [barbecue] restaurant to downtown St. Louis. Expect many of the same items presently at Big Baby plus new/former items."
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https://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/ ... 244D77E2ED
Copia closing Downtown.....
This is not as disturbing as the owner's comments. I have no idea if what he is saying is 100% accurate. It is unfortunate to lose another business on Wash. Ave. It could definitely use a little TLC. From fixing the lights on and in the street, to increased security and other ways to promote traffic, versus impeding it.
Copia closing Downtown.....
This is not as disturbing as the owner's comments. I have no idea if what he is saying is 100% accurate. It is unfortunate to lose another business on Wash. Ave. It could definitely use a little TLC. From fixing the lights on and in the street, to increased security and other ways to promote traffic, versus impeding it.
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granted DT infrastructure needs an overhaul and the city wasted enormous amounts of money on the Wash. Ave. streetscape but give me a ***** break. yeah, enforcement of parking meters killed your stale business. he's been talking about closing for years. the most disturbing thing about his baseless speculation/excuses is that failed-business owners in STL still try to blame their failures on "not enough free parking" and "protests" instead of the fact that the population density in St. Louis can't sustain more than a handful of competing businesses. but yeah, free parking for everyone. more sprawl. totally the answer.Hawatmeh lists numerous reasons for the downturn in the downtown Copia's business: Ballpark Village; protests; parking-meter enforcement in the early evening, which he says cut into Copia's happy-hour business, and on Saturday, which he says dissuaded diners from staying late on Friday and leaving their cars downtown overnight.
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I get the feeling that this little stretch of Wash Ave will being seeing a little bit of a bounceback in the next coming years. Most of Downtowns hotels are in the deep CBD or down by Union Station, nowhere near the main street-scaped stretch. Pending the economy, this is about to change. The Last Hotel is currently under construction, with two more hotels being planned for the massive Jefferson Arms and YMCA buildings. I've also heard hotel rumors for the Shell Building. That's a lot of beds for travellers that will be eating out most meals during their stay. If the micro hospital gets built that would only increase lunch traffic. Then finally the tourism/entertainment cluster to the SW in the Union Station/MLS complex. Those people gotta eat too.
Plus Wash Ave Post has found a new owner and will be staying open so if that's not a reason to be bullish I don't know what is.
Plus Wash Ave Post has found a new owner and will be staying open so if that's not a reason to be bullish I don't know what is.
^ Have to agree with some positive trends for downtown going forward with recent Arch investments, Union Station, Scottrade upgrades, the current botique hotel buildout as well as some stabilization in the office market. It will only get better if Square or another meaningful job relocation downtown, Met tower fill the rest of its space and economy remains strong and consistent at the moment. I'm confident but of course speculative that MLS won't pass up the Taylor Family/corporate sponsorship on the scale of Enterprise Car Rentals to put an expansion team in downtown and my very speculative surprise for 2019 predictions that Enterprise will have a jobs commitment to downtown by end of year as well.
What I think is worth noting and wonder what everyone thinks, is there too many proposed developments on existing properties from Jeff Arms, to RX, to Y building or even Shell building that are hanging their hat on hotel rooms right now??
Downtown has had some nice pickups in botique hotels as well as new Loews hotel for BPV. You got the Harry site hotel under construction and some strong indication for the Jefferson Connector proposed hotel going forward. My thoughts are along this line and why I agree that their will be nobody to use all the extra rooms being proposed on top of what is happening now.
- New botique hotels recently completed, under construction can certainly pick up needed slack for downtown tourist uptick after Arch Grounds as well as current business travel. Will take a significant increase in business relocation to change the number of business travelers into downtown
- BPV Loews nice signature addition and a brand not in the area. At same time, BPV/Loews kept hotel size to modest number of rooms & thought that it was a smart play - In other words, they didn't try to build a convention/big conference hotel when numbers didn't support it.
- CVC convention upgrades and expansion is needed. Hopefully county will do their part and it will get started soon but I doubt that it bring a dramatic rise in hotel numbers. Maybe a modest increase to get back to what has eroded away. Even then, I wonder if incentives would be better utilized for a Drury Laclede's landing hotel/residential tower and re purpose their hotel nearby for residential. In other words, the remaining big square footage building stock might be better suited for more residential, live-work residents and back to office even if it takes longer
- Hotel at Old Harry Site as well as proposed Jefferson Connector hotel should meet current Wells Fargo Securities demand as well as near term NGA demand. In both cases, both hotels could see some upsize.
- Wells Fargo Securities will have some space open for development if not mistaken and can see your next hotel proposal there that Wells might very well push as a defacto campus hotel. I don't see city leaders pushing back on one of the biggest private for profit property tax paying employers in the city decides that it wants a hotel on its campus.
Ok, done with my long winded post.
What I think is worth noting and wonder what everyone thinks, is there too many proposed developments on existing properties from Jeff Arms, to RX, to Y building or even Shell building that are hanging their hat on hotel rooms right now??
Downtown has had some nice pickups in botique hotels as well as new Loews hotel for BPV. You got the Harry site hotel under construction and some strong indication for the Jefferson Connector proposed hotel going forward. My thoughts are along this line and why I agree that their will be nobody to use all the extra rooms being proposed on top of what is happening now.
- New botique hotels recently completed, under construction can certainly pick up needed slack for downtown tourist uptick after Arch Grounds as well as current business travel. Will take a significant increase in business relocation to change the number of business travelers into downtown
- BPV Loews nice signature addition and a brand not in the area. At same time, BPV/Loews kept hotel size to modest number of rooms & thought that it was a smart play - In other words, they didn't try to build a convention/big conference hotel when numbers didn't support it.
- CVC convention upgrades and expansion is needed. Hopefully county will do their part and it will get started soon but I doubt that it bring a dramatic rise in hotel numbers. Maybe a modest increase to get back to what has eroded away. Even then, I wonder if incentives would be better utilized for a Drury Laclede's landing hotel/residential tower and re purpose their hotel nearby for residential. In other words, the remaining big square footage building stock might be better suited for more residential, live-work residents and back to office even if it takes longer
- Hotel at Old Harry Site as well as proposed Jefferson Connector hotel should meet current Wells Fargo Securities demand as well as near term NGA demand. In both cases, both hotels could see some upsize.
- Wells Fargo Securities will have some space open for development if not mistaken and can see your next hotel proposal there that Wells might very well push as a defacto campus hotel. I don't see city leaders pushing back on one of the biggest private for profit property tax paying employers in the city decides that it wants a hotel on its campus.
Ok, done with my long winded post.
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I agree that developers are over playing the hotel card. To me its a matter of who can obtain a loan and start construction first. I also wouldn't be surprised to see some older out of date existing hotels close much like the Millennium did and the downsizing of Crown Plaza. Having said that, I'll take a renovated Municipal Courts building over the Crown Plaza any day.
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Hooray! Wow, this alone is enough to make me happy about the state of Wash Ave and Downtown.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Jan 04, 2019Plus Wash Ave Post has found a new owner and will be staying open so if that's not a reason to be bullish I don't know what is.
Ultimately I think the vitality of downtown will depend not on hotels or convention center business but whether people will want to live there.
CityGarden has a new sculpture on top of Kaldi's. "Love vs. Money, by Los Angeles artist Kaï"
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I love that they keep adding new sculptures. And great placement of this one right by the Tom Otterness.
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I'm curious what folks, especially downtown living and/or working folks, think about the overall state of downtown these days?
My 2c as an outsider and someone who has visited two or three times in the last month or so is it seems like things are a bit more lively and there's more reactivated buildings than a year or two ago, but that there's still a ways to go before things really get to where they should be as a strong CBD. You can envision it, but it's not there yet.
My 2c as an outsider and someone who has visited two or three times in the last month or so is it seems like things are a bit more lively and there's more reactivated buildings than a year or two ago, but that there's still a ways to go before things really get to where they should be as a strong CBD. You can envision it, but it's not there yet.
As an outsider like yourself, I would say this description is pretty much spot on. Some great progress, but it still doesn't quite have that critical mass that some other areas of the city or region have. Would be interested to hear the opinions of those that live/work down there though as I only get to visit sporadically.STLrainbow wrote: I'm curious what folks, especially downtown living and/or working folks, think about the overall state of downtown these days?
My 2c as an outsider and someone who has visited two or three times in the last month or so is it seems like things are a bit more lively and there's more reactivated buildings than a year or two ago, but that there's still a ways to go before things really get to where they should be as a strong CBD. You can envision it, but it's not there yet.