Ballpark Village

wabash · PostMay 30, 2018#33012018-05-30T00:03+00:00

dredger wrote:
goat314 wrote: ↑
May 28, 2018
^ I think we will be seeing a 2nd tower announcement before One Cardinal Way is even finished.
My take is the second tower will be S Broadway tower and not as optimistic on 2nd BPV residential tower without some major employment gains downtown.

I don't see any reason to think another tower (other than the S. Broadway proposal) would be right on the heels of One Cardinal Way. But that said, I don't think that apartment demand Downtown is particularly tied to employment. I think Roberts and Arcade filled up on Downtown's appeal as a neighborhood and not because of any significant employment increases.

CWE may have seen a bit more employment growth in the last few years thanks to BJC/WUSM, but again, I think its growth is more a product of it being a pleasant, convenient, connected, walkable neighborhood.

Even in Clayton, where a Centene employment influx will certainly help drive demand, I think a broader shift in housing preferences (more walkable, more rentals, less ownership) lends itself to continued demand in the area's most walkable neighborhoods - regardless of whether work is within a few blocks or in a suburban office park. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I get the sense that a lot of Downtown residents aren't there because of work proximity, but just because they like it and want to be there.

STLrainbow · PostMay 30, 2018#33022018-05-30T14:38+00:00

^ Downtown residential has been performing relatively well given its lackluster jobs environment. Watch out if we ever have a serious Detroit moment with strong employment gains.

ImprovSTL · PostMay 30, 2018#33032018-05-30T14:43+00:00

STLrainbow wrote: ↑
May 30, 2018
^ Downtown residential has been performing relatively well given its lackluster jobs environment. Watch out if we ever have a serious Detroit moment with strong employment gains.

We need a local business like Quicken that goes all in on downtown. I agree that the growth will be slow and steady and won't explode until the offices see a rise.

RuskiSTL · PostMay 30, 2018#33042018-05-30T17:10+00:00

Downtown is bleak and scary compared to other residential neighborhood option. And most of all it's expensive. Why pay a ton for an empty/scary neighborhood?

Proximity to work is only gonna matter to a select few. How many people are going to value living in Downtown proper over South City or CWE? The commute difference is negligible for most people.

symphonicpoet · PostMay 30, 2018#33052018-05-30T17:48+00:00

^Might be a style choice as much as anything. Not everyone wants a single family detached with everything that goes with it: yardwork, tuckpointing, carrying crap up and down stairs all the time. Some folks want a nice loft. No yard. No outside maintenance. You can walk to your neighbors in the comfort of an air-conditioned hallway. In an ideal world maybe you even have a grocery store in the building. (Not that that happens much around here, but it could. Or at least nearby.) Depends on what you want. There really are loft-dwellers in the world. Birds that like nesting high on cliffs above all the troubles on the ground. Sure, some of us are ground squirrels too. Different folks, different strokes. I wouldn't want to knock it. I have a single family detached and right now . . . dang I'm tempted to pave the yard. I personally don't even begin to understand why people want big county yards. Those are just painful to me. Different folks.

STLhistoryBuff · PostMay 30, 2018#33062018-05-30T17:52+00:00

RuskiSTL wrote: ↑
May 30, 2018
Downtown is bleak and scary compared to other residential neighborhood option. And most of all it's expensive. Why pay a ton for an empty/scary neighborhood?

Proximity to work is only gonna matter to a select few. How many people are going to value living in Downtown proper over South City or CWE? The commute difference is negligible for most people.

Bleak and scary? We're just going to have to disagree on that. I've never been scared walking around Downtown. Been down here for years. This is not me "rationalizing" our crime problem. I acknowledge it and I don't downplay it by saying it's because of the city/county split.

Empty? It's not bustling, but that does not make it empty. There are pockets of emptiness for sure, but I see people walking around the Arch Grounds, Kiener Plaza, and Citygarden and I see decent crowds in restaurants and bars Downtown during the week during happy hour/dinner time. Gets quiet after that. Weekends are obviously busy. Most of the crowds are around the ballpark now though.

Expensive? Depends on what you consider expensive. Unless you're in a South City neighborhood that's still working it's way up, they're pretty comparable in price.

Access to public transit is significantly better in Downtown in comparison to South City. CWE is significantly more expensive that Downtown. I live in a 1000 sq feet apartment with storage space in the basement and a metrolink stop less than half a mile away. My rent is under $1000. If that exists in CWE, I'd love to see that place because that would be an absolute steal.

ImprovSTL · PostMay 30, 2018#33072018-05-30T20:50+00:00

RuskiSTL wrote: ↑
May 30, 2018
Downtown is bleak and scary compared to other residential neighborhood option. And most of all it's expensive. Why pay a ton for an empty/scary neighborhood?

Proximity to work is only gonna matter to a select few. How many people are going to value living in Downtown proper over South City or CWE? The commute difference is negligible for most people.

Being able to walk to work is a huge perk for many. I would love to work downtown.

St.Louis1764 · PostMay 31, 2018#33082018-05-31T01:00+00:00

Likely one reason Downtown may seem so mundane is the lack of retail.. Once more rehabs are finished that will begin to change more and more.. I can honestly say Downtown St.Louis has come a long ways from what it once was and yes theres lots of room for improvement like getting more employers to invest in downtown but i do think more residential is also a big requirement for choice retailers.. Downtown isn't perfect but who wants it to be? Besides it seems to be functioning just fine & with the addition of BPV2 the new high rise will add a much different look for the city.. I'm hoping phase 3 will be of equal size but something tells me the last phase which will also face Broadway will be the tallest of them all..

dbInSouthCity · PostMay 31, 2018#33092018-05-31T02:23+00:00

RuskiSTL wrote: ↑
May 30, 2018
Downtown is bleak and scary compared to other residential neighborhood option. And most of all it's expensive. Why pay a ton for an empty/scary neighborhood?

Proximity to work is only gonna matter to a select few. How many people are going to value living in Downtown proper over South City or CWE? The commute difference is negligible for most people.

Bleak and scary? its one of the safest neighborhoods in the city, safer than CWE. Ive walked every single block of it in the last 6 months at all times of day and night and never had any issues.

met a guy at moving in my building at 19th and Washington, works in Maryland heights and just moved here from New Jersey, couldn't believe he can have a 800sq foot brand new apartment for $935 and underground parking for $80 in a downtown.

bwcrow1s · PostMay 31, 2018#33102018-05-31T12:38+00:00

St.Louis1764 wrote: ↑
May 31, 2018
Likely one reason Downtown may seem so mundane is the lack of retail.. Once more rehabs are finished that will begin to change more and more.. I can honestly say Downtown St.Louis has come a long ways from what it once was and yes theres lots of room for improvement like getting more employers to invest in downtown but i do think more residential is also a big requirement for choice retailers.. Downtown isn't perfect but who wants it to be? Besides it seems to be functioning just fine & with the addition of BPV2 the new high rise will add a much different look for the city.. I'm hoping phase 3 will be of equal size but something tells me the last phase which will also face Broadway will be the tallest of them all..

Bottom line IMO is that we need some signature retail on Washington Avenue. It was the garment district, yes? BPV2 and 3 will get theirs. City needs to try to court new street level retail that gives people in the city a reason to go Downtown instead of Brentwood.

dbInSouthCity · PostMay 31, 2018#33112018-05-31T14:28+00:00

Downtown needs retail is a common theme here for a while, but there is more retail downtown that people realize. I’m looking at 4 clothing stores out my window right now on Washington between 19th and 20th in the Tudor building. There are at least dozen other stores in downtown but they’re geared towards African American clients and I guess people just gloss over that since it isn’t white people retail

bwcrow1s · PostMay 31, 2018#33122018-05-31T15:24+00:00

Well, that's why I said signature. To act as an anchor and drive people to Wash Ave and Downtown to shop again. Variety and diversity is fantastic, but we need the foot traffic first, from various nabes, not just Downtown residents. My hope would be to give people a reason to shop Downtown again. Maybe I'm wrong though and people already go Downtown specifically for those stores. I just think an anchor or two would solidify it against Brentwood in offering basic destination retail. In my opinion, CWE is beating out Downtown, likely because of residential density. Maybe we can hold out hope as some of these new projects come online, hopefully sooner than later.

robertn42 · PostMay 31, 2018#33132018-05-31T15:33+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
May 31, 2018
Downtown needs retail is a common theme here for a while, but there is more retail downtown that people realize. I’m looking at 4 clothing stores out my window right now on Washington between 19th and 20th in the Tudor building. There are at least dozen other stores in downtown but they’re geared towards African American clients and I guess people just gloss over that since it isn’t white people retail

DT has Levin's. That's all the clothing a person needs.

PostMay 31, 2018#33142018-05-31T15:39+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
May 31, 2018

RuskiSTL wrote: ↑
May 30, 2018
Downtown is bleak and scary compared to other residential neighborhood option. And most of all it's expensive. Why pay a ton for an empty/scary neighborhood?

Proximity to work is only gonna matter to a select few. How many people are going to value living in Downtown proper over South City or CWE? The commute difference is negligible for most people.

Bleak and scary? its one of the safest neighborhoods in the city, safer than CWE. Ive walked every single block of it in the last 6 months at all times of day and night and never had any issues.

met a guy at moving in my building at 19th and Washington, works in Maryland heights and just moved here from New Jersey, couldn't believe he can have a 800sq foot brand new apartment for $935 and underground parking for $80 in a downtown.

I lived DT from 2006-2012 and had the same experience. You have to have an awareness about you (as you should in any urban center), but I explored every inch of it at any time of the day. Best neighborhood I have lived in during my time in St. Louis.

newstl2020 · PostJun 05, 2018#33152018-06-05T23:58+00:00

The base for the second tower crane in between the Loews Hotel and the stadium is being set as of this morning. The base for a tower crane has been sitting at the Tower site for weeks without any change. Looks like the new one adjacent to the hotel will be going up very quickly. This is the closest one to the stadium and will likely have quite the presence over the left field upper decks.

danke0 · PostJun 06, 2018#33162018-06-06T15:22+00:00

Photo from 6/5/2018

STLrainbow · PostJun 06, 2018#33172018-06-06T17:55+00:00

Apparently they've confirmed they are staying in Saint Louis and are open to moving to a more visible location... maybe its just me but I think they're headed to BPV for a new HQ. I know they've been mentioned to having a presence before though it was never clear if it was office or some kind of retail.

shadrach · PostJun 06, 2018#33182018-06-06T18:28+00:00

Hmmm, this comment seems out of context unless I missed the first part.

I assume this is regarding Rawlings. I was thinking last night that with MLB as the owner, a move to BPV would make perfect sense. Something tall. With a gigantic, lit-up Rawlings logo. And their 'corporate museum' expanded and open to the public. With added stuff from MLB.

STLrainbow · PostJun 06, 2018#33192018-06-06T18:42+00:00

STLrainbow wrote: ↑
Jun 06, 2018
Apparently Rawling's new ownership (now including MLB) confirmed they are staying in Saint Louis and are open to moving to a more visible location... maybe its just me but I think they're headed to BPV for a new HQ. I know they've been mentioned to having a presence before though it was never clear if it was office or some kind of retail.

PostJun 06, 2018#33202018-06-06T18:43+00:00

^ oops... yes, Rawlings. If this move doesn't happen we should just shut it all down it's such a no-brainer.

debaliviere · PostJun 06, 2018#33212018-06-06T20:33+00:00

shadrach wrote: ↑
Jun 06, 2018
Hmmm, this comment seems out of context unless I missed the first part.

I assume this is regarding Rawlings. I was thinking last night that with MLB as the owner, a move to BPV would make perfect sense. Something tall. With a gigantic, lit-up Rawlings logo. And their 'corporate museum' expanded and open to the public. With added stuff from MLB.

Or a giant baseball, like Louisville Slugger's giant bat.

chriss752 · PostJun 06, 2018#33222018-06-06T21:16+00:00

Progress Photos today

Office Building and Hotel Side

One Cardinal Way side

As for the idea Rawlings could move in here, I recall a rendering from late last year showing the Rawlings Logo on the lower part of the building. So it’s not a far fetched idea. IF Rawlings were to move here, Ballpark Village would have two well known office tenants, Pricewaterhouse Cooper and Rawlings. That would probably make the district more viable for future office buildings and tenants who see these as "pioneers". For now, PWC is the pioneer tenant here who has decided to take the risk on moving to something new. As for the "Giant Baseball" mentioned above by Debaliviere, there is one coming in this phase between the Hotel and Office Building. It looks like this...

Even though it is practically hidden, it will look cool all lit up at night. It will be near the pool deck. While on topic of the Hotel portion, an Instagram Account for the Live! by Loews was created. It's handle is @livebyloews_stlouis

jshank83 · PostJun 07, 2018#33232018-06-07T13:42+00:00

^I don't know how much of a risk PwC is taking. They are just moving down the street to a brand new development.

pattimagee · PostJun 07, 2018#33242018-06-07T14:33+00:00

Because I was curious:

Rawlings confirmed it employed about 150 people in the St. Louis area and 1,200 globally.

DeeMoss · PostJun 21, 2018#33252018-06-21T14:12+00:00

Second crane is going up on the Hotel side today

Ballpark Village

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