urbanSTL

I'm not immediately familiar with the Indianapolis cultural trail, but the BSA St. Louis Area Council maintains several cultural trails, including one in Forest Park (The 1904 World's Fair Historical Trail) and another that touches on downtown. (The Gateway West Historical Trail.) They do not connect, though it wouldn't be complicated to connect them. And while most aren't marked, per se, it also wouldn't be difficult to mark them. (The Carondelet - Jefferson Barracks Trail is supposedly marked with white cannon emblems on utility poles, but it's been a long time since I've walked it. I suppose I ought to give it another go, as I live there now. Honestly, cultural trails needn't be terribly complicated, as all that's really required is a decent route and a brief guide to point people to the plaques and markers that are often already there.

Several such trail guides (including the two mentioned above) can be gotten off the St. Louis Area Council website:

https://stlbsa.org/activities/other-act ... ng-trails/

There really ought to be more of these. (I have a guide to one other that is no longer listed, but should still be quite walkable, running essentially in a loop along Morganford, Holly Hills, Broadway, and Arsenal. That one's also a mere stone's throw from me.)

Looking a bit at the Indianapolis trail, it's large and ambitious, but I think you could probably achieve most of it with a small group of dedicated volunteers and the blessing of city hall. What would you wish to achieve with such a trail? Some things, like dedicated bike lanes or improved street crossings, add expense and red tape. But other things can be achieved more easily. What's the goal of such a trail? Is it primarily educational or recreational? Is it aimed at tourists, or locals, children or adults? Do you wish it to be principally a walking trail, or a bicycle trail, or both? Some of these goals could be addressed with simple markings. Some might require physical alterations to our public streets, roads, and pathways. Some might require a shift in the way we think about transportation, potentially addressing the hostility that sometimes exists between different modes: pedestrian, bicycling, and driving; especially where these modes are used for quite varying purposes. The hostility isn't necessary, but to get rid of it you'll probably have to slow the cars down considerably and get the bicycles firmly and permanently in the streets. But this risks becoming an "urban theory" question rather than merely a discussion of the Chouteau's Greenway project. The Chouteau's Greenway seems rather clearly more park than pathway to me; rather akin to Chicago's Millennium Park, and with similar complications. A historical trail is almost a separate issue.

International design competition begins for greenway connecting Forest Park to the Arch
Local residents applied to join a committee that offers input on the project, which will influence judges' evaluation of the design entrants. Applications for the competition will be accepted until mid-November.

More here
https://www.stlmag.com/health/outdoors/ ... t-forest-/

moorlander wrote: ↑

Sep 28, 2017

International design competition begins for greenway connecting Forest Park to the Arch
Local residents applied to join a committee that offers input on the project, which will influence judges' evaluation of the design entrants. Applications for the competition will be accepted until mid-November.

More here
https://www.stlmag.com/health/outdoors/ ... t-forest-/

Hmmmm... A little torn on this one... I'd prefer to see density continue to be added to the central corridor instead of more greenspace, plus my recollection is that the central corridor is quite bike-able already with bike lanes down Olive from downtown to midtown. The only tough area is where Lindell is tight from Grand to the west end, but then once you get past SLU you can cut over to West Pine where it's quite pleasant and takes you straight to the park.

All that said, kinda hard to make an argument against making it a better city for bikers and pedestrians.

San Luis Native wrote: ↑

Sep 28, 2017

moorlander wrote: ↑

Sep 28, 2017

International design competition begins for greenway connecting Forest Park to the Arch
Local residents applied to join a committee that offers input on the project, which will influence judges' evaluation of the design entrants. Applications for the competition will be accepted until mid-November.

More here
https://www.stlmag.com/health/outdoors/ ... t-forest-/

Hmmmm... A little torn on this one... I'd prefer to see density continue to be added to the central corridor instead of more greenspace, plus my recollection is that the central corridor is quite bike-able already with bike lanes down Olive from downtown to midtown. The only tough area is where Lindell is tight from Grand to the west end, but then once you get past SLU you can cut over to West Pine where it's quite pleasant and takes you straight to the park.

All that said, kinda hard to make an argument against making it a better city for bikers and pedestrians.

My sense has always been that this will be a greenway in between the Highway and railyards. Maybe im envisioning it wrong, but I dont anticipate that type of land would be built on within my lifetime if left alone. (and im younger than 30).

Design competition for Chouteau Greenway attracting international attention:

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... ff757.html

imran wrote: ↑

Oct 21, 2017

While I'm excited about the idea of the greenway network, it has tremendous potential to fall short.

Jane Jacobs realized half a century ago that successful environments mix and layer different entities. E.g. Kids preferred to play on sidewalks & were safer there than some secluded designated playground. We should let pedestrians have crossings where there are cars, and let bicyclists ride through busy business districts.

Separating uses sterilizes urban society. I think conventional planners are obsessed with the illusion of safety to the point of detriment.

*gets off soap box

You make good points.

The function of the gateway mall has been hammered into that function to death. How much play equipment do we need to provide an illusion of safety, cleanliness and life?

It seems like that's how development has gone the last century -- trying to create an illusion to deflect the reality of substantial generational divides of wealth, health and education that actively contribute to how people see the city, and what causes the high crime rates. There are only so many patches of green space, splash pads and walking paths that contribute to well being, after that point it's just redundant and unproductive.

imran wrote: ↑

Oct 21, 2017

While I'm excited about the idea of the greenway network, it has tremendous potential to fall short.

Jane Jacobs realized half a century ago that successful environments mix and layer different entities. E.g. Kids preferred to play on sidewalks & were safer there than some secluded designated playground. We should let pedestrians have crossings where there are cars, and let bicyclists ride through busy business districts.

Separating uses sterilizes urban society. I think conventional planners are obsessed with the illusion of safety to the point of detriment.

*gets off soap box

A street is not two traffic lanes and two sidewalks. The street is a city's primary public space. The sooner we can get this definition back to what is was 100 years ago, the better.
That being said, it's important that the greenway is as activated as possible. There should be staircases and ramps at every available bridge and street. Purina, BJC, Ameren, UPS, FedEx, should have patios and cafes along the greenway for their employees.

Poor Forest Park Ave, most people call it a Parkway and now GRG thinks it's a Boulevard.

Apologies for the large image but, these are the 4 design teams. My favorite of the 4 was the TLS / OBJECT / dhd. Their presentation seemed to really know the most about STL. Their work in Birmingham would also be very applicable to the struggles here.

IMG_20180104_193616 by Alex Price, on Flickr

^ so what's the take-away... is there definitely some money behind it in place to get things going? a timeline on when things might begin with construction?

STLrainbow wrote: ↑

Jan 05, 2018

^ so what's the take-away... is there definitely some money behind it in place to get things going? a timeline on when things might begin with construction?

This is definitely going to be the next major Civic Progress fund raising initiative. I predict it will be under construction by mid 2020s.

^ I can see that... ideally this will be unified with the North Riverfront plans and connected as much as possible with knitting together local n'hoods.

This is partial being constructed already around the new metrolink station at Boyle, beyond that i don't believe there is a plan for funding whatever the winning team comes up with at this point.

I can't help but think that some well placed fields, name your sport, even though underwhelming would be a big plus considering the demand at Forest Park by the various leagues whether it be softball, soccer, rugby, etc.. Yes, underwhelming thought but seems like another shallow reflecting pool(s) being called a lake near Transit/Busch Stadium is a missed opportunity for downtown residents/near north and southside residents.

^^ thanks, db.... I imagine once things get a little more concrete with what plan will be chosen they can go for some private $$. btw, do you know if the Trestle into the Foundry is part of this initial greenway work related to the new Merolink station?

STLrainbow wrote: ↑

Jan 05, 2018

^^ thanks, db.... I imagine once things get a little more concrete with what plan will be chosen they can go for some private $$. btw, do you know if the Trestle into the Foundry is part of this initial greenway work related to the new Merolink station?

This post kind of pissed me off (see link). All of their renderings showed a trestle trail connecting to the Cortex Metrolink and the greenway.

I think you're misinterpreting their post. I read it like they're teasing the trestle trail by tagging GRG.

I have knowledge of the project and the trestle trail through the foundry project is still planned.

olvidarte wrote: ↑

Jan 07, 2018

I think you're misinterpreting their post. I read it like they're teasing the trestle trail by tagging GRG.

I have knowledge of the project and the trestle trail through the foundry project is still planned.

Ah, I missed the GRG tag. Okay, very good to see.

And as for connecting The Foundry to MetroLink, a pedestrian bridge between The Armory and The Foundry over/under 40 would be much much easier. ~13 walk from Cortex station via Greenway, or ~7 minutes from Grand via city streets and Ped Bridge.

Haven't seen this posted yet, so here are the four proposals for the Chouteau Greenway. It appears Concept D is the only one akin to the previously proposed Chouteau Lake. They also propose lots of redevelopment in the Chouteau's Landing area. Will be interesting to see which one is chosen...

https://greatriversgreenway.org/view-concepts/

D is the one involving Kiko Obata, and I believe she was instrumental in the original lake idea, was she not?

I very much like elements of D, including the lake and the respect for local history. I also very much like C. (C seems like the most ambitious, to me, though it also makes phasing quite clear.)

I'm quite looking forward to hearing what everyone else thinks.

D is my favorite because

--it includes the Chouteau pond, water recreation concept. (I'm all for the marina, kayaking..etc).

-- it has a vision to recreate Chouteau's Landing.

The only reason I'm iffy about this design is because the green space kills potential to heal the grid between Union Station and Jefferson. We already have a lot of parks. The bird watching and trainspotting is a little cheesy.

The focus of the Chouteau Greenway is "de-islanding" the central corridor. So more than anything designs should focus on innovative ways to connect our city.

dylank wrote: ↑

Apr 07, 2018

D is my favorite because

--it includes the Chouteau pond, water recreation concept. (I'm all for the marina, kayaking..etc).

-- it has a vision to recreate Chouteau's Landing.

The only reason I'm iffy about this design is because the green space kills potential to heal the grid between Union Station and Jefferson. We already have a lot of parks. The bird watching and trainspotting is a little cheesy.

The focus of the Chouteau Greenway is "de-islanding" the central corridor. So more than anything designs should focus on innovative ways to connect our city.

I like a lot of the Parts of D. As you noted, drop the Chestnut/west downtown park idea & in my opinion the new metrolink station as well (but keep the wetland) and it becomes a much stronger plan as well as doable plan for what you noted - it gives a good solid vision of Chouteau's Landing area that is not over the top