“you can’t say there isn’t the potential for a lot more dangerous traffic.”
Amazing the fear some people live in.
Amazing the fear some people live in.
Key word might be former member as I assume, or speculate that residents are aware but still vote towards being a suburb.
With its own parking structure it does seem that this project could find a compromise much quicker than the office building proposal that seems to have stalled because of parking concern (the office building with Apex family member(s) involved as the developer)
For some reason I thought this building and the office building were working together to share parking.dredger wrote: ↑Nov 22, 2017Key word might be former member as I assume, or speculate that residents are aware but still vote towards being a suburb.
With its own parking structure it does seem that this project could find a compromise much quicker than the office building proposal that seems to have stalled because of parking concern (the office building with Apex family member(s) involved as the developer)
Dredger is referencing the parking problem that killed Apogee Tower not the neighboring Forsyth Point.jshank83 wrote:For some reason I thought this building and the office building were working together to share parking.dredger wrote: ↑Nov 22, 2017Key word might be former member as I assume, or speculate that residents are aware but still vote towards being a suburb.
With its own parking structure it does seem that this project could find a compromise much quicker than the office building proposal that seems to have stalled because of parking concern (the office building with Apex family member(s) involved as the developer)
ohhh thanks!moorlander wrote: ↑Nov 22, 2017
Dredger is referencing the parking problem that killed Apogee Tower not the neighboring Forsyth Point.
"Ray Gallardo, who owns the City Coffeehouse + Creperie building at 36 North Brentwood Boulevard adjacent to the site, agreed “there’s now limited short-term parking in Clayton, and restaurants depend on that parking — with the lot gone, I wonder where my customers will park.”
Good point, Ray. I mean how are you going to replace those handful of customers who drive to your shop if they put up a tower that will bring 200+ residents within spitting distance of your business. Surely none of them drink coffee. But, the parking...
Good point, Ray. I mean how are you going to replace those handful of customers who drive to your shop if they put up a tower that will bring 200+ residents within spitting distance of your business. Surely none of them drink coffee. But, the parking...
^Unreal. It's amazing how short sighted people can be.
Does anyone have any idea how much costs would increase if the parking were incorporated into the tower? I know that underground parking is significantly more expensive to construct, but am not sure how increasing height to accommodate additional floors of parking would affect the overall construction costs.
Does anyone have any idea how much costs would increase if the parking were incorporated into the tower? I know that underground parking is significantly more expensive to construct, but am not sure how increasing height to accommodate additional floors of parking would affect the overall construction costs.
Thanks moorlander,jshank83 wrote: ↑Nov 22, 2017ohhh thanks!moorlander wrote: ↑Nov 22, 2017
Dredger is referencing the parking problem that killed Apogee Tower not the neighboring Forsyth Point.
Couldn't think of the towers name at the moment. Not sure if that was strictly about parking but a big part of it if not mistaken
I'm not one to defend surface lots, but as a business owner he *might* have a legit worry. It's been a while since I've been there but my recollection was it was slammed on weekend mornings. I'd guess the vast majority drove there. St. Louis loves convenient parking. Even if just a small percent give up on it b/c of lack of parking options that could outnumber the average number of customers he's getting from the new building.jbacott wrote: ↑Nov 22, 2017"Ray Gallardo, who owns the City Coffeehouse + Creperie building at 36 North Brentwood Boulevard adjacent to the site, agreed “there’s now limited short-term parking in Clayton, and restaurants depend on that parking — with the lot gone, I wonder where my customers will park.”
Good point, Ray. I mean how are you going to replace those handful of customers who drive to your shop if they put up a tower that will bring 200+ residents within spitting distance of your business. Surely none of them drink coffee. But, the parking...
I wonder if First Watch has an opinion on the matter. Though IIRC they have a lot immediately to the north.
22-story Clayton apartment gets green light
A 22-story apartment tower in downtown Clayton is moving forward after the city’s Board of Aldermen approved a contract to sell a city-owned parking lot to the developers Tuesday night.
The move brings closer to conclusion a years-long process to find a developer for the site. That developer, Indianapolis-based Flaherty & Collins, in February announced plans for what is now a 228-unit apartment high-rise at the corner of Brentwood and Forsyth boulevards.
http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... b3bc8.html
^Thanks for the update. I am ready for this to get started. Hopefully KP can figure their own stuff out and get out of the way. There is 10 or 11 story parking garage just across Brentwood Blvd for those offices. I can't imagine it is full (if someone else knows you can correct me). Maybe they can work out a deal with spaces in that lot if they are that concerned about it. A one block walk isn't going to hurt anyone.
If anyone can do a quick recap on major Clayton developments that would be great.... what's recently open, what's in the works etc.
I can do it here.STLrainbow wrote:If anyone can do a quick recap on major Clayton developments that would be great.... what's recently open, what's in the works etc.
1. Proposed Centene Day care in old Maryland School
2. This Tower
3. Forsyth Pointe Office Building
4. Hotel at Former police HQ
5. Centene’s massive expansion
6. There is the recently completed Barton Apartments
7. The Regions bank project on Maryland
That’s all I can think of.
Here are pending applicationsSTLrainbow wrote: ↑Dec 20, 2017If anyone can do a quick recap on major Clayton developments that would be great.... what's recently open, what's in the works etc.
https://www.claytonmo.gov/government/pl ... plications
This doesn't include the hotel proposal (I think at the old police headquarters) by the metrolink stop.
Things in process:
I think the Regions bank (and 2nd building) and Centene are about the only things right now.
Things that just finished.
Two Twelve highrise
Ceylon apartments (Maryland at N Central)
Barton apartments (Maryland at Gay)
I am sure I am missing things but that is off the top off my head.
EDIT: The above poster beat me to most of it!
^Anyone think Apogee Tower proposal will come together? Understand it stalled because of parking issue, spots with neighboring office tower that would be sharing parking garage with.
Otherwise, the race is on for residential towers from downtown to Clayton CBD. To have fun with another list. Went from West to East on High Rise residential towers and proposals.
1) 212 built
2) Forsyth & Brentwood proposal - this thread
3) Centene/Clayco - will add residential
4) One Hundred - ground broken category
5) Koplar CWE property??? Looks like the one that won't happen anytime soon unless someone feels differently
6) BPV II - ground broken category
7) S. Broadway Tower - redevelopment plan approved yesterday and same group/investors as 212. I think this is solid
8. Drury Laclede's tower??? I give it a better chance then Koplar because of Drury's financial muscle & the possibility of a mix hotel/residential tower proposal at end of day.
Missing any that realistically might pop up? Wish the previous Wash Ave tower would rise from the ashes after taking a recession hit.
My gut feeling is the list will see a surprise proposal in 2018 as the new GOP tax bill continues to make real estate investing/development a plus as far taxes goes. Maybe a tower proposal by the Kansas group for the lot across from old CPI building that they developed in place of the goofy rendering floated (parking garage with 2-3 stories of apartments) - a garage with tower/roof pool side amenity. Maybe a legit residential tower from strong developer as part of a new Old Muni Courts building proposal.
Otherwise, the race is on for residential towers from downtown to Clayton CBD. To have fun with another list. Went from West to East on High Rise residential towers and proposals.
1) 212 built
2) Forsyth & Brentwood proposal - this thread
3) Centene/Clayco - will add residential
4) One Hundred - ground broken category
5) Koplar CWE property??? Looks like the one that won't happen anytime soon unless someone feels differently
6) BPV II - ground broken category
7) S. Broadway Tower - redevelopment plan approved yesterday and same group/investors as 212. I think this is solid
8. Drury Laclede's tower??? I give it a better chance then Koplar because of Drury's financial muscle & the possibility of a mix hotel/residential tower proposal at end of day.
Missing any that realistically might pop up? Wish the previous Wash Ave tower would rise from the ashes after taking a recession hit.
My gut feeling is the list will see a surprise proposal in 2018 as the new GOP tax bill continues to make real estate investing/development a plus as far taxes goes. Maybe a tower proposal by the Kansas group for the lot across from old CPI building that they developed in place of the goofy rendering floated (parking garage with 2-3 stories of apartments) - a garage with tower/roof pool side amenity. Maybe a legit residential tower from strong developer as part of a new Old Muni Courts building proposal.
Update.
I still have my doubts that KP Development was ever serious about their neighboring project. I just feel like their trying to get some extra money out of their lot, but what do I know:
http://www.westendword.com/Articles-New ... ayton.html
I still have my doubts that KP Development was ever serious about their neighboring project. I just feel like their trying to get some extra money out of their lot, but what do I know:
http://www.westendword.com/Articles-New ... ayton.html
Heads up- Planning Commission meeting tomorrow night at 7pm regarding this proposal at Clayton city hall. My parents (Clayton residents) received a robocall from the NIMBYs urging everyone to show up to oppose it. I’m planning to go to counter the naysayers. The more the merrier- we should challenge their anti-urban position and support good development, even if it happens to be outside the city limits.
Good lord. Seriously? Do they have a coherent argument against this project? Or is it just losing precious surface parking and (contradictorily) an irrational and paralyzing fear of additional traffic that has them organizing?
It's a parking lot with towers on the blocks immediately to the North, South, East and West - and one tower ON THE SAME BLOCK. I don't think the school board has even come out against this one - as they initially did against the 212 Clayton (aka Meramec) project. Is this project even asking for tax abatement?
It's baffling and frustrating. Hopefully it goes well. Good luck 'gasm.
Correction- this is a Board if Alderman meeting, not a Planning Commission meeting. Here now- i’ll report back when I can.
I attended the meeting tonight, but didn't speak or stay till the end, because it was clear that the mayor and board of aldermen were solidly in favor of the development. I don't know the official outcome of the meeting, but I have a hunch it passed unanimously based on the comments from the board.
I am most impressed with the Clayton mayor, Harold Sanger. He is approachable, well-spoken, and unapologetically progressive. And he completely shot down every point raised in opposition to the proposed development, point-by-point. He was direct without being condescending, and ultimately made the case in favor of the tower even stronger. The opposition resorted to the predictable NIMBY talking points--not enough parking, allusions to backroom deals, fears of overbuilding, increased traffic, blah blah blah. Mayor Sanger and several alderpersons challenged every one of their baseless claims, and it was abundantly clear that the few vocal opponents weren't going to be satisfied no matter what.
I found it humorous that one of the NIMBYs who spoke against the tower was a resident of the Maryland Walk high-rise. He complained that increased density is not good for Clayton, and there won't be enough parking. Then Mayor Sanger promptly shot down his arguments, explaining that when Maryland Walk (the high-rise the man LIVES IN) was proposed, the neighbors nearby rabidly opposed it, but now it's a welcome addition to the fabric of downtown Clayton. I almost stood up and applauded-- it was so satisfying to hear this guy get put in his place.
Anyway, I have yet to hear the official outcome of the hearing, but it sounded like it was going to sail through. Very proud of Clayton's elected officials-- they definitely understand that Clayton's urban character is its biggest selling point, and they share a common vision that increased density and walkability are key to enhancing its appeal.
I am most impressed with the Clayton mayor, Harold Sanger. He is approachable, well-spoken, and unapologetically progressive. And he completely shot down every point raised in opposition to the proposed development, point-by-point. He was direct without being condescending, and ultimately made the case in favor of the tower even stronger. The opposition resorted to the predictable NIMBY talking points--not enough parking, allusions to backroom deals, fears of overbuilding, increased traffic, blah blah blah. Mayor Sanger and several alderpersons challenged every one of their baseless claims, and it was abundantly clear that the few vocal opponents weren't going to be satisfied no matter what.
I found it humorous that one of the NIMBYs who spoke against the tower was a resident of the Maryland Walk high-rise. He complained that increased density is not good for Clayton, and there won't be enough parking. Then Mayor Sanger promptly shot down his arguments, explaining that when Maryland Walk (the high-rise the man LIVES IN) was proposed, the neighbors nearby rabidly opposed it, but now it's a welcome addition to the fabric of downtown Clayton. I almost stood up and applauded-- it was so satisfying to hear this guy get put in his place.
Anyway, I have yet to hear the official outcome of the hearing, but it sounded like it was going to sail through. Very proud of Clayton's elected officials-- they definitely understand that Clayton's urban character is its biggest selling point, and they share a common vision that increased density and walkability are key to enhancing its appeal.
^ Nice recap STLgasm, sounds like this will be a go.
Glad to see all this high-rise construction taking place right now in Clayton, CWE and downtown. There are several cities nearby that would love to have the amount of high-rises going up that we currently have and that wasn't the case just a few years ago.
Glad to see all this high-rise construction taking place right now in Clayton, CWE and downtown. There are several cities nearby that would love to have the amount of high-rises going up that we currently have and that wasn't the case just a few years ago.
I have been very happy with my forward thinking Aldermen and Mayor.
Thanks again for the recap STLGasm
Thanks again for the recap STLGasm
Awesome to hear. I know there's plenty of "wish it was in downtown" but at this point the ship has more than sailed and we might as well embrace multiple urban centers and hope they are both built out as densely and most pedestrian and transit friendly as possible. Can only help in the long run. I wouldn't mind StL jumping on a MSP trajectory.
^ I also think the large majority of people who seriously are looking at Clayton hi-rises probably aren't thinking about downtown as an alternative quite yet; probably CWE would be a more competitive market for them at this point but that n'hood is just doing fine as is.
Anyway, as you say the downtown residential tower movement is here and it will be interesting to see how far it goes... it just may be getting started or we'll find out it has a limited market. I guess we'll know pretty soon.
Also, to pdm's point, I think we got a mini-version of Atlanta here with multiple skyscapes along a corridor with Downtown (Downtown ATL) , CWE (Midtown) and Clayton (Buckhead). Of course Buckhead is in ATL proper but Clayton still feeds some of the city's central corridor energy and it's much better than having them close than out in the 64 sewer.
Anyway, as you say the downtown residential tower movement is here and it will be interesting to see how far it goes... it just may be getting started or we'll find out it has a limited market. I guess we'll know pretty soon.
Also, to pdm's point, I think we got a mini-version of Atlanta here with multiple skyscapes along a corridor with Downtown (Downtown ATL) , CWE (Midtown) and Clayton (Buckhead). Of course Buckhead is in ATL proper but Clayton still feeds some of the city's central corridor energy and it's much better than having them close than out in the 64 sewer.