urbanSTL

^Good effort and appreciated. 300 S broadway will be tilted in the opposite direction as the above image, so much more of the Arch will remain visible.

I believe the only visual important in Busch is the field, however, so I think this issue should be of minimal importance. No one at Safeco is concerned about their view of the Space Needle, no one in Yankee stadium is concerned about their view of the Empire State Building etc. etc. etc.

^^I think what you've got there is basically right. From directly behind home it shouldn't block much more than what the Millenium already does.

To newstl's point on the tilting, it might look slightly more like this:

If you really want to look at the Arch while at a game just buy tickets along the 3rd base line and your problem is solved. This will be a fantastic look regardless. Reminds me of the development around San Diego's stadium after it was built.

Also, I think I remember hearing years ago that the stadium garages were purposely built to facilitate building on top of them. Is that something from only in my dreams? It wouldn't be difficult to skin them and turn them into podiums for a larger structure if that were the case. I also know for sure the garages experienced structural problems with rebar rusting out some years ago that cost quite a bit to repair, so maybe they aren't sound enough to do such a development at age 50ish.

STLinCHI wrote: ↑

Dec 14, 2017

Are there existing buildings abutting the east and south sides?

The Tums factory is shaped like an L - it basically wraps around it.

"The proposal is for a 33 story apartment building with 24 floors of apartments, ground floor retail and a 7-level parking “podium.”

If the Stadium garages could be reskinned and built on, that would make the most sense, as they're already talking about incorporating a 7 level garage.

To utilize all of that space, we would need a second tower proposal for that footprint, though. I don't see it happening.

Some refreshing optimism downtown St. Louis:

The new apartment tower will include 3,000 square feet of ground-level retail, an outdoor rooftop pool, a 254-space parking garage, and a 16th floor community area and outdoor terrace featuring views into Busch Stadium.

HDA President Jack Holleran said he doesn’t see the 300 S. Broadway project competing with plans now underway at Ballpark Village.

“The market is deep enough that we got excited about the project,” he said. “We believe in the market and with (St. Louis Cardinals development partner) Cordish Cos. moving forward with their project, we really believe they will be complementary to each other.”

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... oftop.html

moorlander wrote: ↑

Dec 14, 2017

Some refreshing optimism downtown St. Louis:

The new apartment tower will include 3,000 square feet of ground-level retail, an outdoor rooftop pool, a 254-space parking garage, and a 16th floor community area and outdoor terrace featuring views into Busch Stadium.

HDA President Jack Holleran said he doesn’t see the 300 S. Broadway project competing with plans now underway at Ballpark Village.

“The market is deep enough that we got excited about the project,” he said. “We believe in the market and with (St. Louis Cardinals development partner) Cordish Cos. moving forward with their project, we really believe they will be complementary to each other.”

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... oftop.html

I don't get his reasoning for the demolition, though.

"We put the building under contract in May. We toured the building and decided we wanted to repurpose it as mostly office space. But we studied repurposing it, and found it was cost prohibitive, which led us to removal and replacement of the building."

So, this apartment building was never part of the original plan? How the hell does that even happen? Sounds like a bit of a misdirection with that answer. Add to that, you go from a 7 story building as an office space and jump to a 33 floor residential tower.

Anyone buying that?

^maybe the figured out the residential market is more lucrative than the office market (with all the open office space at the moment)?

Yes, maybe, but again, how do you jump from just rehabbing a 7 story building into leaping to the conclusion that you should just tear it down to build a monster apartment tower? Just sounds like a fake story to legitimize the demolition instead of looking for a different site, or trying to purchase a surface lot or something, or really, looking for any other solution at all.

Demo the building if you want, no need to make up a story about it, is all.

wabash wrote:Hoping that the non-Busch facing sides (and at least the eastern facing/skyline side) don't just look like 212 Meramec, and have a little more finish/detailing to them than painted concrete.

Does this answer your question?

This building with have at least 10 maybe 12 three bedroom units...downtown needs more of those if they want to keep and attract families.

I'd like to see some 3 story brownstone style units in Downtown/Downtown West. I think it would really add that much needed 3 bedroom option and preserve the urbanity. Like the townhouses on Locust, but not a random cluster of three surrounded by tall buildings lol.

dbInSouthCity wrote:This building with have at least 10 maybe 12 three bedroom units...downtown needs more of those if they want to keep and attract families.

Two Twelve had that many and they were some of the first to rent.

moorlander wrote: ↑

Dec 14, 2017

“The market is deep enough that we got excited about the project,” he said. “We believe in the market and with (St. Louis Cardinals development partner) Cordish Cos. moving forward with their project, we really believe they will be complementary to each other.”

[/quote]

Let's hope their bankers feel the same.

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑

Dec 14, 2017

I'd like to see some 3 story brownstone style units in Downtown/Downtown West. I think it would really add that much needed 3 bedroom option and preserve the urbanity. Like the townhouses on Locust, but not a random cluster of three surrounded by tall buildings lol.

Definitely. There is plenty of vacant land for that type of development, and the surrounding buildings wouldn't make it feel out of place.

Yep Moorlander, between your post and some of Chris' I'm fully convinced this is 212 2.0. One take away from that - and something I think we already kinda knew - is that leasing at the 212 Clayton building must be going really well.

wabash wrote: ↑

Dec 14, 2017

Yep Moorlander, between your post and some of Chris' I'm fully convinced this is 212 2.0. One take away from that - and something I think we already kinda knew - is that leasing at the 212 Clayton building must be going really well.

Not a fan personally of 212, it just looks too boring and like concrete to me every time I drive by it. That said, I will be happy if this is built, even if it isn't my style. At least they are jazzing the west side of it up.

framer wrote: ↑

Dec 14, 2017

moorlander wrote: ↑

Dec 14, 2017

“The market is deep enough that we got excited about the project,” he said. “We believe in the market and with (St. Louis Cardinals development partner) Cordish Cos. moving forward with their project, we really believe they will be complementary to each other.”

Let's hope their bankers feel the same.
[/quote]

I actually read recently that bankers are looking to invest in low-cost secondary markets like St. Louis. The reason being that all the traditional hot investment spots like the big coastal cities and sunbelt boomtowns are not yielding the return on investment that they once did. So we may be seeing the beginning of a real estate boom in St. Louis, specifically a certain type of urban living.

The 212 has grown on me...

Between this and BPV2, I wonder if we'll see Walgreens or CVS enter the downtown market.

I like 212.

BTW, IIRC, the bonds for Ballpark Village Phase II were in such demand, that they were able to sell them at a lower interest rate than expected, thereby saving millions of dollars in financing costs.

Not really crazy about the clayton building, looks like a drab, gray box.

But more importantly to me is do we want a signature downtown building that looks very similar to a building that is 7 miles away? Just seems like a wasted opportunity to stretch & showcase STL's design chops.

I am glad this project is happening, but design wise, with what I've seen in this thread, I'm kind of "meh"