Plus, the JW Marriott in Nashville is 33 Floors and 385 feet. ![]()
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I'm just guessing based on their renderings and the regulations. The street elevation there seems to be about 470' so a maximum mean elevation above sea level of 751' would permit about a 280' building. If you divide that by 33 you get about 8.5' stories. Now, the lobby level looks taller, so maybe that's twelve or so and the remaining stories aren't even quite 8.5. That sounds low, particularly when you factor in the drop ceiling, but one of the projects I was on a couple years back, a luxury hotel, had about eight foot ceilings and maybe, maybe barely six inches above the drop ceiling. So it's tight. But it really looks to me like those stories are pretty stinking short. If you look at the renderings the seventh floor appears to line up approximately with the fifth floor of the building to the south and while it's harder to estimate across the street, the entire ten story podium appears to approximately line up with the parking garage, which is only about eight stories and parking garages as a species aren't known for their high ceilings. So I'll believe the stories really might be that short. Just a guess. We'll see if they apply for a variance.
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I hope that they apply for a variance as that part of downtown could use some serious height. I'm curious on what incentives they are going to be asking for or if they already have the financing in place guess we'll know around the 18th.
Makes sense but I don't see the developer wanting ceilings that will be shorter than those at One Cardinal Way. People don't want to be crammed. I understand where you are coming from but I just see these ceiling heights similar to those in 212 Clayton.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Dec 10, 2017I'm just guessing based on their renderings and the regulations. The street elevation there seems to be about 470' so a maximum mean elevation above sea level of 751' would permit about a 280' building. If you divide that by 33 you get about 8.5' stories. Now, the lobby level looks taller, so maybe that's twelve or so and the remaining stories aren't even quite 8.5. That sounds low, particularly when you factor in the drop ceiling, but one of the projects I was on a couple years back, a luxury hotel, had about eight foot ceilings and maybe, maybe barely six inches above the drop ceiling. So it's tight. But it really looks to me like those stories are pretty stinking short. If you look at the renderings the seventh floor appears to line up approximately with the fifth floor of the building to the south and while it's harder to estimate across the street, the entire ten story podium appears to approximately line up with the parking garage, which is only about eight stories and parking garages as a species aren't known for their high ceilings. So I'll believe the stories really might be that short. Just a guess. We'll see if they apply for a variance.
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^It's just a WAG, really. And it's early days. I wouldn't figure the number of floors is set in stone yet, let alone the ceiling height. I certainly wouldn't care to have to pop tiles in another building like that. Makes everything twice as hard as it needs to be. I certainly hope you're right . . . I just . . . man it looks short to my eye. From one measly rendering, mind.
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Another thing to keep in mind, this project is probably well over a year out from ground breaking, and will probably go through several revisions.
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The easy answer is to require proof of financing being in place and construction permits filed before approving any demolition permit. Additionally, I could see a penalty or restriction on the parcel of land barring it from being used as any form of parking lot, fast food, etc as well if the tower is not built. It should be pretty easy to enforce no demolition if the building won't be built as is proposed.
Be prepared to be disappointed... the 300 South Broadway Project will not exceed 335 feet tall and will not have the best glass design when seen from the East Side. It will basically be a glorified 212 Tower. But, the tower’s demolition approval cannot move forward unless a building permit was applied for and/or granted by the City of St. Louis. All of this information is in the preliminary Preservation Board document.
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I'm not disappointed. Why would anyone be. Love the sleep architecture and location will really build in solid height and density.
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It depends. The way the tower is positioned, it will mainly add density. I think one thing to keep in mind is the majority of people looking at St Louis from the east side will be looking at the Arch.
I figured this would be the case. Economically dictated. It is a vertical rendition of urban housing trends. Nice face, cheap on the other three sides. I too would be much happier if the East and West sides spoke the same language, but alas...
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Also, this tower will obscure the view of the arch from Busch Stadium
The podium design facing east and south is terrible. The north facing podium should be replicated on all three side at a minimum. I wonder if the north facing podium is actually faced with residences? Since that side faces the Stadium Garage, it would likely have restricted views towards the Arch. I'm perplexed.chriss752 wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2017Be prepared to be disappointed... the 300 South Broadway Project will not exceed 335 feet tall and will not have the best glass design when seen from the East Side. It will basically be a glorified 212 Tower. But, the tower’s demolition approval cannot move forward unless a building permit was applied for and/or granted by the City of St. Louis. All of this information is in the preliminary Preservation Board document.
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Are there existing buildings abutting the east and south sides?
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The only gripe or hope (to be more positive) I have is that they should wrap the glass around to the northern facade of the podium. I don't think that's asking a whole lot - basically 8 additional stories of glass facade from floors 2-9.
That would do a lot to improve the aesthetic of the building from the pedestrian (/automobile
) perspective near Busch/Broadway, without drastically altering the overall design including the basic painted concrete tower portion above the 9th floor. There's already a soulless monolithic garage on one corner of that intersection. A little lightness and engaging design covering BOTH street facing facades of the tower's garage podium would go a long way.
That would do a lot to improve the aesthetic of the building from the pedestrian (/automobile
) perspective near Busch/Broadway, without drastically altering the overall design including the basic painted concrete tower portion above the 9th floor. There's already a soulless monolithic garage on one corner of that intersection. A little lightness and engaging design covering BOTH street facing facades of the tower's garage podium would go a long way.Yeah, my bedroom wall also obscures my view of the arch.Chalupas54 wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2017Also, this tower will obscure the view of the arch from Busch Stadium
^I hope to see many more Arch-obscuring towers built in the future.
The Arch will always have it's wide open eastern face, but part of the brilliance of the design is the way it pops in and out of view as you move through the city.
The Arch will always have it's wide open eastern face, but part of the brilliance of the design is the way it pops in and out of view as you move through the city.
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I'm happy if this cracks 300' also it'll be nice if the entire building were glass however I'm pleased so i can't complain now on the other hand it be awesome if we could get a one hundred type high-rise downtown
According to Emporis, The Millennium Hotel and The Equitable Bldg. are 289 and 272 feet respectively, so this will be a bout 50 feet taller than it's nearest neighbors (I'm still not sure where Ballpark Village will top out at).
Edit: Emporis lists BPV at 320 feet.
Edit: Emporis lists BPV at 320 feet.
This tower would block arch views from right field. The BPV Tower would block arch views from left field. The seats behind home plate and the next 3-4 sections heading toward left field won't be impacted. So the masses lose and the 1% win and all is as it should be.
In all seriousness though, that classic postcard shot of the arch from Busch will probably look even cooler with news 300+' towers flanking it.
From directly behind home plate the 300 S Broadway tower would line up almost perfectly with the Renaissance Hotel Tower (illustrated below). A little bit of the right leg would be lost since this tower would be taller and closer, but it wouldn't take a big bite out. The folks in right would lose a lot more.
This is the scope of the vantage that will be almost totally unimpacted:
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This gives a sense of how the BPV Tower will quickly start to obstruct views from left:
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This is all just an exercise in expectations. Obviously it should have no bearing on whether the towers are built or not. The Cards get enough help as it is. No need to protect views that they enjoy but don't own.
In all seriousness though, that classic postcard shot of the arch from Busch will probably look even cooler with news 300+' towers flanking it.
From directly behind home plate the 300 S Broadway tower would line up almost perfectly with the Renaissance Hotel Tower (illustrated below). A little bit of the right leg would be lost since this tower would be taller and closer, but it wouldn't take a big bite out. The folks in right would lose a lot more.
This is the scope of the vantage that will be almost totally unimpacted:
This gives a sense of how the BPV Tower will quickly start to obstruct views from left:
This is all just an exercise in expectations. Obviously it should have no bearing on whether the towers are built or not. The Cards get enough help as it is. No need to protect views that they enjoy but don't own.
I did a bad job at seeing how the tower will look with One Cardinal Way. Both towers should be 320-335 feet tall, so I tried to mimic that. To bad 300 South Broadway is at a bad angle. Actual tower will block slightly more of the arch to where half of the top and the Northern leg are the only pieces to be shown.
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