urbanSTL

I was never wild about the location for SkyHouse, but I seem to be a minority of one on that point.

dweebe wrote:

debaliviere wrote:I was never wild about the location for SkyHouse, but I seem to be a minority of one on that point.

I always thought it seemed like an "east of Tucker" project.

Me too. Something like that would actually work pretty well in place of the U.S. Bank branch at Tucker and Olive.

Alex Ihnen wrote:

Chalupas54 wrote:I think another proposal similar in magnitude to this is coming. And soon.

+1

Agreeing or do you know something super juicy..

debaliviere wrote:I was never wild about the location for SkyHouse, but I seem to be a minority of one on that point.

I agree. It's not like there's a dearth of surface lots east of Tucker Boulevard, after all. The size/scale seems more appropriate there in my opinion.

And I also agree with earlier comment about NLEC. But they've been there for years, and no one seems to be willing or able to force Rev. Rice's hand, for what it's worth.

It's a bummer this never happened. Looking back, people were saying the same thing about downtown in 2007 as we are now. "Almost all the historic buildings are filled--time for new construction."

We've filled a lot of space since then. In 2000s there were more vacant buildings, yet more new construction proposals.
--Ballpark Village (1st attempt)
--Bottle District
--Skyhouse
--Roberts Tower
--Lumiere Development
--McGowan conceptual tower

Also during the 2000s we expected that the STL population would grow by 2010 and now we expect a loss. So are we being more realistic or pessimistic in 2017? Does being "realistic" hurt our ambition and creativity?

dylank wrote: ↑

Oct 31, 2017

It's a bummer this never happened. Looking back, people were saying the same thing about downtown in 2007 as we are now. "Almost all the historic buildings are filled--time for new construction."

We've filled a lot of space since then. In 2000s there were more vacant buildings, yet more new construction proposals.
--Ballpark Village (1st attempt)
--Bottle District
--Skyhouse
--Roberts Tower
--Lumiere Development
--McGowan conceptual tower

Also during the 2000s we expected that the STL population would grow by 2010 and now we expect a loss. So are we being more realistic or pessimistic in 2017? Does being "realistic" hurt our ambition and creativity?

We're probably a little of both. I'm more realistic in my belief now that not all young people want to live in the city; Clayton, Maplewood, Brentwood, Richmond Heights will suffice and are even preferred by some people. I'm also very pessimistic at times when I think of STL. We've lost more companies since 2007. The Wash Ave craze plateaued and has gone downhill. As of now, BPV is not bring new business Downtown and is instead just moving a company 1 block away. Crime is significantly worse than it was in 2007, at least in North City. I'd say we're now thought of immediately when people talk about race relation issues.

I'm optimistic about some things though. Plenty of hotel and mixed use proposals Downtown. CWE is a really great urban neighborhood. The Grove is a phenomenal turnaround from 10-15 years ago. Soulard is still going strong, as is Benton Park. Tower Grove (East, South, Shaw, and SW Garden) is continually getting better, as is Benton Park West (I will say that BPW is behind Tower Grove). Cortex is a place we can really hang our hat on and that new metro stop will make it even better.

I'd say STL has to the potential to both succeed or fail. It just depends on the steps we take along the way.

^^ Mind you a serious recession centered around real-estate occurred just after this which contributed to these projects not moving forward... Although its preceding bubble might've also contributed to some starry-eyed proposals that might not have occurred otherwise.

Just read through this feed as I wasn't on the site back when this happened. Kind of crazy how far along it seems to have been at the point it died. Commercials, advertising, billboards, and some demolition. I guess it just really shows something isn't a done deal until they start building. Even then it could go south.

This would have been a cool building to have built in my opinion. Too bad.

Skyhouse would have been a great addition to Downtown west and still believe something like that and more should be built.
The St.Louis region was one of the hardest hit areas when it came to the big recession and today St.Louis has come a long ways.
It's sad that Washington Ave is in the shape that its in however i always thought making it a hotspot for night clubs was an awful idea It should have been geared more to families and i think thats where its headed which will make that Ave vibrant.
Theres so much more going on now in St.Louis than there was before the rescission.

St.Louis1764 wrote: ↑

Oct 31, 2017

The St.Louis region was one of the hardest hit areas when it came to the big recession

Interesting. What makes you think that?

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Oct 31, 2017

I guess it just really shows something isn't a done deal until they start building. Even then it could go south.

That second sentence should have a footnote at the end of it and the footnote should say "See Roberts Tower".

wabash wrote: ↑

Nov 01, 2017

St.Louis1764 wrote: ↑

Oct 31, 2017

The St.Louis region was one of the hardest hit areas when it came to the big recession

Interesting. What makes you think that?

The Chrysler Plant closing.

dylank wrote: ↑

Oct 31, 2017

It's a bummer this never happened. Looking back, people were saying the same thing about downtown in 2007 as we are now. "Almost all the historic buildings are filled--time for new construction..."

Also during the 2000s we expected that the STL population would grow by 2010 and now we expect a loss. So are we being more realistic or pessimistic in 2017? Does being "realistic" hurt our ambition and creativity?

One thing I'd say is that development isn't as downtown-centric as it was pre-recession but it certainly seems to me it's been years since we've seen as much development going on citywide. And as long as the economy keeps relatively the same there's no reason that shouldn't continue, and with Downtown certainly is having its share of the project pie. But it'll need some key wins with office if it's going to ramp up significant new construction.

Correct me if I'm wrong not only did we lose the Chrysler jobs we lost jobs from Phizer along with May Co getting gobbled by Federate then AB getting gobbled by Inbev and there was the Ford plant that shuttered as well.
Chrysler set the tone on why it was very important for St.Louis to diversify its economy.
I could vision a sky house type high-rise near or across the street from Busch Stadium.

St.Louis1764 wrote: ↑

Nov 01, 2017

Correct me if I'm wrong not only did we lose the Chrysler jobs we lost jobs from [Pfizer] along with May Co getting gobbled by Federate then AB getting gobbled by Inbev and there was the Ford plant that shuttered as well.
Chrysler set the tone on why it was very important for St.Louis to diversify its economy.
I could vision a sky house type high-rise near or across the street from Busch Stadium.

Add to that layoffs at US Steel, and I believe also UP. Probably also Laclede/Alton Steel and Oerlikon. All still in business, but smaller now. And of course SW Bell has been almost continuously downsizing locally throughout that period. Likewise there were significant layoffs at Boeing. I'm sure there are others. But the manufacturing sector in particular was decimated here. Which is why we're more diversified now. And actually kind of light on manufacturing, apparently. Compared to peer cities.

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Nov 02, 2017

St.Louis1764 wrote: ↑

Nov 01, 2017

Correct me if I'm wrong not only did we lose the Chrysler jobs we lost jobs from [Pfizer] along with May Co getting gobbled by Federate then AB getting gobbled by Inbev and there was the Ford plant that shuttered as well.
Chrysler set the tone on why it was very important for St.Louis to diversify its economy.
I could vision a sky house type high-rise near or across the street from Busch Stadium.

Add to that layoffs at US Steel, and I believe also UP. Probably also Laclede/Alton Steel and Oerlikon. All still in business, but smaller now. And of course SW Bell has been almost continuously downsizing locally throughout that period. Likewise there were significant layoffs at Boeing. I'm sure there are others. But the manufacturing sector in particular was decimated here. Which is why we're more diversified now. And actually kind of light on manufacturing, apparently. Compared to peer cities.

Correct, St. Louis' lack of growth is largely due to the shedding of old economy jobs. We have lost hundreds of thousands of industrial jobs in the last 40 to 50 years, but fortunately we also have added roughly the same amount of new economy jobs. So it's almost like ww are breaking even on job growth every census. I predict once the old economy hits rock bottom, St. Louis will experience growth more similar to MSP, KC, and Indy.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but is there a city the size of STL (give or take a million) that has lost the MAJOR employers that we have. This list is a who's-who of major US companies. Can you imagine what STL's population and prominence would be if we still had even 50% of these companies, say SBC, TWA HQ & hub, AB-Corona, May Co. & the car plants at full capacity.
We are a resilient bunch here in STL. We've had our challenges, but I do see a turnaround happening, as mentioned in previous posts. We are seeing that shift away from a manufacturing economy. Once this happens, I see good things for STL. Along with that, will come big projects like the Skyhouse.

(off the top of my head) List of lost or purchased corporations over the years:
SBC HQ (Moved to SA Texas- HUGE loss)
TWA HQ & hub (Huge loss for STL)
AB - (Estimated 5K jobs lost since Inbev takeover)
May Co. ( Not sure if anyone is still here from Federated)
Ford Plant
Chrysler Plants
Jobs at companies like Tower Automotive that supported the car plants
Scottrade (happening as we speak)
Boeing (McDonnell Douglas)
STL PR industry decimated ( D'Arcy for example)
STL banking industry ( Boatman's for example)
US Steel Plant ( Is a shell of it's former self in GC)
Solutia buyout
Smurfit Stone
Monsanto (Could see layoffs once Bayer finds "synergies")
Hardees HQ moved to Nashville
Ralcorp sold twice
Sigma Aldrich ( Sold but still here)
AG Edwards (Still has a large presence)
Purina ( Sold but still has NA HQ)
Patriot Coal (Moved to WV) -Not a huge employer, but the coal industry has shrunk significantly
Savvis sold to Centurylink

Less recent losses
Missouri - Pacific Railroad
Mallinckrodt
General Dynamics
Ozark Airlines
7-Up Company
Wetterau Food

That is a depressing list to look at

Every city has lost companies. We just haven’t grown them at the rate as others. The list of companies that NYC has lost is crazy long.


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