urbanSTL

I'd still rather burn political capital on a NS metro link then this. I think if this happens first it makes the NS metrolink a much harder sell.

Agreed, though the idea is that these could be metrolink type trains running in street ROW. I think most agree a N/S Metrolink is ideal for the region, especially the city. While I like the streetcar idea, I worry that its taking attention and maybe resources away from a NS metrolink.

I'd rather have this network than North-South Metrolink. N-S Metrolink while nice and important still would limit light rail service to just certain areas within the city. This network connects a lot more of the neighborhoods. And the phased approach makes it that much more likely to happen.

Eventually add in a Gravois and/or Chippewa line, and suddenly you're really hitting up most of the city with relatively close rail service.

STLEnginerd wrote: How could it not?

Hypothetical trip. SLU law student going to main campus from new downtown law school.
Do you walk to civic center, hop the link to grand, and walk from there to campus, or do you hop the street car. And land closer to your destination, but the ride takes a bit longer.
I'm not sure, but I know one trip now has second viable option, so unless the ridership doubles as a result it will put significant pressure on Metrolink for a considerable amount of time.

A north south line however does the opposite, it open new trip opportunities, expanding the ridership while at the same time not duplicating service already offered by Metrolink.

I'd take the #10 bus. Should we get rid of it for cannibalizing Metrolink trips? Google says the bus is 10 mins faster from SLU Law to Grand and Lindell

Can we pay for street car operations but getting rid of bus line that would be served by the street car?

new poster.

absolutely agree that grand is not the right street to introduce a two way streetcar. compton? possibly. vandeventer? possibly. Grand would be ideal but traffic is surely an issue. Jefferson is essential. Im surprised there arent lines considerd on broadway from wash - AB brewery, on chouteau from vandy - broadway/6th, on russell from grand - tucker, or even a tucker/gravois line whatsover. Hampton might be a dream but that would be (in my opinion) an artery of the city worth considering from Wilshire park - Forest park. i think that cherokee is a truly a wonderful idea, i mean it is a great street worthy of recognition by rail, but at its edges and not through the street itself, its far too short in width. chippewa perhaps, but not cherokee. I realize the potential future phases are only ideas, though.

also, is there any reason to believe metro and the streetcar couldnt work simultaneously, maybe even together?

The Detroit People Mover runs in a single, one direction loop.

roger wyoming II wrote:Really what needs to happen is Slay step up and provide leadership on our city's transportation future...

He's too busy clandestinely rallying for game-changing things like football stadiums to mire himself in such an effort.

Thanks for this information.............

Along for the Ride: A revival of a St. Louis streetcar system
http://www.stltoday.com/news/traffic/al ... 16787.html

pat wrote:

I'd still rather burn political capital on a NS metro link then this. I think if this happens first it makes the NS metrolink a much harder sell.

Agreed, though the idea is that these could be metrolink type trains running in street ROW. I think most agree a N/S Metrolink is ideal for the region, especially the city. While I like the streetcar idea, I worry that its taking attention and maybe resources away from a NS metrolink.

I think there's some merit to the concept of making the central corridor the best region possible, for the sake of competition for jobs and immigration. I'd be happy with either direction.

Edit: I think the key is securing funding for future capital replacement. Otherwise the streetcar lines will just get torn up in fifty years when they need maintenance, like last time.

I really see political traction without a couple changes or approaches to the project as whole. Couple thoughts that I think would work in the near term, gain much needed support for Stl Streetcar and still improve transit options.

1) Promote a smaller St Louis central corridor street car line only without the north branch but with increased frequency, wifi buses for north south arterials like Grand. First, that drops the fixed cost that is more in line with what can be supported. Second, I have heard time after time and agree wholeheartedly that increased frequency of the more popular bus routes would be a big plus for transit. I think a smaller more focus approach would do better than the grandiose plan being pitched now and certainly couldn't be any worse than the middle road pitch that got nowhere..

2) Support a hybrid BRT/city streetcar N-S corridor. In other words, BRT from north county into downtown & north city streetcar on the N-S corridor (that could share or tie into the Central Stl street car line). Tied that in with a buy out of the UP RoW (relocate any current freight costumers) for future S. City light rail extension into downtown that could replace the BRT/City streetcar system or compliment it. I think this continues the mentality and separation of Light Rail being a grade separate fixed system connecting the regions major nodes as well as promoting the loop and any future city streetcar lines as neighborhood systems that can provide more capacity at less operating cost (buses cost money to run over time - labor).

The issue in all this, St. Louis doesn't have strong regional let alone state support for the high up front cost of fixed systems. I think you really have to sell both, measure growth of fixed systems with improved or more frequent bus service where ridership supports it. Of course, that also requires a mayor to realize that supporting the cost of a $500,000 planning study from the city coffer is doable and really is needed for long term vision and planning.

Looking at this old modern streetcar plan, interesting stuff but I have a few thoughts.

http://www.downtownstl.org/wp-content/u ... -study.pdf

In the future I believe a better route through the central corridor would be down Locust. While Olive is far wider than Locust, the streetscape is absolutely desolate. Cruise Google Street View down both corridors and the difference is very clear. Plus, while far narrower than Olive, Locust is actually about the same width as the Main Street corridor that seems to handle the KC streetcar just fine. Locust has it's share of empty lots between buildings, but is already far more urban than any other option going through midtown.

After Locust, the streetcar could simply turn north at Compton Ave, the take Wash Ave to Grand Center, taking Grand briefly before turning onto Lindell. Leaves options open for a future Grand streetcar line as well.

I apologize if this has been already posted:
General Motors streetcar conspiracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_M ... conspiracy

Kansas City is moving forward with plans to put a TDD expansion on the ballot in December 2017-January 2018 that would allow their streetcar line to extend south to Country Club Plaza and UMKC:

http://kcstreetcar.org/about-streetcar/ ... expansion/

Knowitall wrote: Other items: Joe Edwards said loop trolley opens spring 2016 worse case

KC Star - Six months in, downtown streetcar a winner with nearby businesses

The cool guy with the black shirt unbuttoned to the navel leans on the street bike, and the girl in the really tight jeans and windblown hair leans on him.

The 34 Heritage ad is part of the window display at Michael’s Fine Clothes, where Kansas City businessmen and professionals have been buying suits and executive wear going back more than a hundred years to the old streetcar days.

Welcome to the new streetcar days.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/kc ... 06362.html

Does anyone know what happened to the streetcar project to connect downtown, downtown west, midtown and central west end? There is virtually no public transport connection between downtown and these neighborhoods. How strange. I don’t count metrolink because the stations are too far away; e.g., if you live close to Washington Ave in downtown west there are at least 8 block to get to any metrolink station, if not more. There is only one direct bus to midtown that runs every 30 min, no direct bus to downtown. How is that “world-class transportation system” or “the best mass transit system in the country”, which country? Zimbabwe maybe. Now, try to walk to Grand Center along the Olive street, very bizarre experience.

dtwest wrote: ↑

Sep 29, 2017

There is only one direct bus to midtown that runs every 30 min,

Both the 10 and 97 run from DTW to Midtown.

dtwest wrote: ↑

Sep 29, 2017

no direct bus to downtown.

The 99 runs runs from DTW to and through DT.

dtwest wrote: ↑

Sep 29, 2017

Now, try to walk to Grand Center along the Olive street, very bizarre experience.

Take Locust, it's actually a really nice walk. Much better than along Olive.

dtwest wrote: downtown, downtown west, midtown and central west end.... There is virtually no public transport connection between downtown and these neighborhoods..... I don’t count metrolink because the stations are too far away.

Maybe you'll feel better about the distance between stations along that stretch once the new Cortex/Boyle Station opens.