Firm: Streetcar, new jobs spurring Cincinnati apartment development
"The streetcar has been embraced by residents and developers alike," the report says. "The Cincinnati metro is strengthening as various Fortune 500 companies expand, intensifying apartment demand."
Maybe I'm just ignorant, but I'm surprised a 2 mile streetcar can cause so much development. Are there that many people riding the streetcar for a mile? Is a mile further than I think it is?
^ Well its not open yet so there are no riders at the moment! And I wouldn't say that the streetcar is "causing" the development, but there is no doubt that such projects help build confidence in developers. Similar success is occurring for Detroit's under-construction 3.3 mile streetcar route and Cincy's 3.6 mile loop (I assume that means about 1.8 mile each direction), which will open soon. For whatever reason, streetcars sell!
btw, a Saint Louis streetcar starting at 4th and running down Olive/Lindell would get you roughly to Compton for 2 miles, Vandeventer for 3 miles, and Euclid for 4 miles.
One thing great about KC's line is that it will be free, which should boost ridership.
I'm also interested in this city office entity that was created to work efficiently with developers...
Pajor said the KC Biz Care office and the Planning and Development Department have been tracking the value of developments the city has been involved in since a program designed to ensure the success of developments located near the streetcar line was launched in August 2013. The program provides expedited planning review and other services to developers inside the TDD through the KC Biz Care office.
Something for us to look at as we try to move from TOD plan to TOD action.
@stlstreetcar
Mark your calendars: St. Louis Streetcar Happy Hour on Tues, March 24, at 6 PM at @AlumniSTL, 200 N. 13th St. #stlstreetcar update & more
roger wyoming II wrote:Is Saint Louis Streetcar making progress?
@stlstreetcar
Mark your calendars: St. Louis Streetcar Happy Hour on Tues, March 24, at 6 PM at @AlumniSTL, 200 N. 13th St. #stlstreetcar update & more
They have been included in more government agency's long range plans.
They mentioned that they didn't get any TIGER funding because of "geographical" reasons. Loop Trolley and Washington Bridge precluded them from funds.
The guy from KC streetcar talked a bit about their project. Sounds like they have a good project.
They need $500,000 I believe for an EIS and $750,000 for something else (can't remember). I did ask if they intend to push a TDD soon or some type of funding. They expect 2016 may be that time.
So...after all that...they can only go as far as funding allows. They don't really have a lot of involvement from City aldermen, maybe a few. Not sure if that's because of lack of effort, lack of political interest, or both. But IMO I really don't see anything happening until they get $$$. I really think as a City we are going to have to pass property tax increases, TDD, etc to get this or any transit done. STL Streetcar or any of of us won't get the transit we want without putting up the money for it. That's where I think we need to focus. Dedicateed funds for city-specific transit.
It was hard for KC to get the streetcar line (even just 2 small miles) approved, funded and now being built.
I think the articles relating to "development" are propaganda to KCians that they *did* it and it is going to be successful for all. Hence, it will also be free for all. Wonder what kind of people will be riding the new streetcars for a mile or two in KC?
hmmmmm
^ The KC streetcar will be no more effective than our 2 mile "loop trolley", its a gimmick that will not be taken serious until it is considerably expanded. It actually may be used to demonize transit and uphold our current transportation paradigm. Once the newness wears out, I'm not confident many of these streetcars will have any lasting value outside conventions and tourism. Now the St. Louis Streetcar has the length, where it could really be a different scenario. Only problem I see with the St. Louis Streetcar is that it is a political quagmire, unless the think broader....ahem major N-S City connectivity.
I do get a little of that feeling that KC wants a choo-choo because St. Louis has one. This will undoubtedly be used by KCitians as a way to say "hey St. Louis Metrolink aint such a big deal, we got a streetcar too", when obviously we are at least a generation ahead of KC and every other Midwest city outside of Chicago, Minneapolis, and Cleveland, but even with MSP major expansion, I still think we have the best rail system in the Midwest outside of Chicago and a N-S line would put us firmly in 2nd place for the foreseeable future.
KC streetcar will be more effective because it serves a major employment center and runs down their equivalent of the Central Corridor. It's basically a stunted St. Louis streetcar, which still will have more utility than the Loop Trolley - i.e. No one will be taking the Loop Trolley to work, but they will for the KC Streetcar. Same goes for Cincy Streetcar.
I think Goat sums it up pretty well. My take away from Pat's comments on attending the meeting is that their is absolutely no political support let alone unity behind this. Not being able to secure $500,000 & $750,000 EIS & planning studies from the city budget is just another example of the stalled politics or status quo politics that can't get agree on an overall benefit to the city let alone make some much needed cuts & reforms to some poorly ran departments in order to reinvest in the city. Some one has to say at some point that the city is better off with new sidewalks, better lighting, better streets, better bus stops than hiring some ones brother as another city inspector
I don't get the hate on KC Streetcar..... it is far from a gimmick. Imagine Union Station in Saint Louis being basically where Harris-Stowe is and surrounded by a pretty decent business/hotel/attraction hub (Crown Center) and then running down to the river through a hipster warehouse district (Crossroads Arts District), Scottrade/BPV district (Power & Light, the core business district and Lacledes Landing (River Market). That has promise written all over it in a growing downtown, and especially so if they can get over the challenges of system expansion.
Count me as envious, and we need something similar down our spine; but unless local property owners and institutions step up to have a measure of self-funding politically we may need to stretch it out to North City and South City to get more people on board and get it moving. To accomplish that, it may need to go to BRT.
Metro thinks this project is a waste of time, so pols won't be jumping on board if the leading transit agency doesn't want to give it a light of day...this thing will die of a slow death and waste couple hundred grand in the process.
I don't like the idea of creating a new transit company separate from Metro. Its creating another entity that citizens will now have to deal with. Its going in the wrong direction. We need to be consolidating agencies not creating more. Metro already has the staff, the engineers, the experience as a transit agency. Why duplicate that?
I'd like to know that if the City created its own transit funding in order to expand Metro in the city, is Metro obligated to spend that money on city-specific projects? So say we pass some TDDs other property tax increase or raise other taxes to build a N/S Metrolink line only in the city. If we raise those funds and give them to Metro, can we obligate them to spend it on that project? Or as a regional agency, is Metro legally bound to use those funds for the region and not the intended project?
^ You can arrange a legal agreement where a Saint Louis City non-profit group is responsible for the planning/financing of a city system and then contracting out to Metro to manage operations. The benefit of this is that you probably can come up with some more flexible funding streams and city-centric planning than if it were all Metro-led. But the critical thing is that everyone is on the same page... after years of waiting, we seem to be no closer to coming to an agreement on what is needed.
Those funding it determine it. If a private entity stepped up and said "we're going to build a light rail line that runs down Grand from Page to Gravois", and they had the ability to get it done, and the plans looked good, would you argue with them over the need for it?
