urbanSTL

jshank83 wrote:Thanks for all the input everyone. It all gives me a better idea of how C looks and what is there. I wish the airport had some kind of 360 viewer of all the concourses. I don't know if that is a security risk though and someone could use it to plan something. I never knew there was a 2nd club on the end of C on another floor. I guess it is just not used for anything now except maybe storage. It is kind of too bad Delta or United isn't in C, they could have used it for one of their clubs (if it still even is usable, who knows after this long). Anyways, it is good to see more areas reopening. Even though it is 2 gates, in my mind it is 4 because 2 they currently use are behind the wall.

With respect to E, I searched a bunch of Southwest flights for Monday and didn't see any that use the new gates, I wonder when they actually will start using them? I did see at least two that are using E29 so that makes me wonder if the new gates or ready yet?

In regards to club condition, it's probably in workable condition. No part of the current airport structure is "abandoned" per say. It is all frequently inspected, maintained, and repaired. Just not updated.

As in respect to the concourse expansion, I believe they will open within the next week. Gates have not yet been moved.


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The Port authority — part of the city-county St. Louis Economic Development Partnership — has voted to provide major funding for marketing incentives to persuade an airline to start transatlantic service.

The incentives could exceed $1 million over several years. The subsidy could be used to help promote and advertise the new service.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/traffic/al ... 1de61.html


I also saw the Blue Angels are flying in tomorrow morning. They are doing a tour of Boeing.

I get the feeling that there is a lot of pieces coming together on this that its much more serious the past year or so than before. Since I picture it only has been serious recently, and likely due to prioritizing some domestic holes that have been filled. At this point the biggest hurdles could be aircraft availability and if political and global situation negatively impacts demand.This much smoke there has to be fire, since it does sound like the business community is being more proactive as well and a few airport improvements the last year or so seem to be geared with it in mind.

Here's a bit of off the road question as i honestly don't know much about airports since i do most of my travels by car. Curious when does anyone think St.Louis will replace it's airport i know Kansas City is near the stages of replacing it's airport also once Kansas City's new airport is open for business does anyone believe that a considerable amount of flights will be taken from St.Louis in favor of the new Kansas City airport??

St.Louis1764 wrote: ↑

Jun 05, 2017

Here's a bit of off the road question as i honestly don't know much about airports since i do most of my travels by car. Curious when does anyone think St.Louis will replace it's airport i know Kansas City is near the stages of replacing it's airport also once Kansas City's new airport is open for business does anyone believe that a considerable amount of flights will be taken from St.Louis in favor of the new Kansas City airport??

I don't see St. Louis doing any kind of replacement in a long time, short of something crazy happening. The best time to do it would have been after the tornado when they had B and C unoccupied. Obviously, they didn't have time to plan anything though. They probably didn't have the money either.

As for KC taking flights, I think Southwest has made enough of an investment here that it would be minimal at this point. I think KC took to long to get the new terminal built and they moved on for now. We might not grow as fast, if they build it, but I don't see them shifting a bunch of flights. I am still not convinced KC rebuilds their airport. There is a lot of resistance to it still.

All that said, there are many people on this forum more knowledgeable than me about air travel. That is my 2 cents though.

This is slightly off topic, but I find it interesting:



I have not seen that in a while. It looks as though seven Southwest departures were delayed between a half hour and an hour and twenty minutes. I can think of two reasons for this. The first and less likely: Operations at the airport precluded the timely departure of all scheduled flights because of some restricting factor like severe weather. Well, we had a bit of weather, but not that much. Nothing that I should think would impact operations at an airport with that much capacity and that little load. The other and I would guess likelier reason: Operations at the airport were intentionally delayed by client airlines because of operational difficulties elsewhere in their systems. At a glance it looks like the delays are all Southwest. This causes me to think they're holding flights at the gate for connecting traffic. I hate seeing folks delayed, but it's nice seeing evidence of connecting traffic. Back in the day delays were a near daily occurrence for that very reason. Sure, most flights left on time, but there were always some things showing up on the board as delayed, even on days with nary a cloud in the sky. A couple of winters ago I got stuck at O'Hare on a bright sunny Chicago afternoon because of storms on the east coast. Snarled things up so badly our flight crew didn't make it to our plane and they had to find a relief crew. We departed Chicago something like three or four hours late. (It had been a trip of many delays, though that did turn out to be the longest. But it was one of my annualish trans-Pacific jaunts. When you're flying a day and a half each way you don't get too effed over a few hours here and there.)

Trololzilla wrote: ↑

Jun 05, 2017

As far as I'm aware, KC is nowhere near replacing MCI. As jshank83 said, there's still a lot of resistance to replacing it, both in terms of cost and the perceived 'convenience' the current airport provides. There is an airport opening (or already has opened, I can't remember exactly) relatively close to KC in Kansas that's being billed as a 'replacement' by the city or county that funded it, but I don't think that it'll actually amount to anything.

Wasn't aware of the new airport in Kansas. Interesting. I'll check that out. Thank you.

If Lambert is serious about new service, it should really provide free WiFi. Isn't it just one of like two airports in the U.S. that doesn't? Not that pressing an issue, but it sure seems like a no-brainer.

There are airports in the US that provide free wifi? I've never found any in Chicago, and lord knows I've looked. Nor do I recall seeing it in Atlanta or San Francisco, which are the only other two US hubs I've flown through lately. (Though everywhere in Asia has free public wifi.) Honestly, I'm not sure how much of an issue it would be. If you're local you can just use your phone. Would be an issue for foreign tourists if we were able to get many, but . . . I expect they'll be a pretty small minority of travelers and mostly this will be their O/D, so they won't need to spend a lot of time in the airport. I'm sure you can get complimentary wifi at the Ambassador's club, and will be able to in the new club in E when that opens. And I believe there's a subscription service already. Just not free public. But with the increasing security risk associated with free public wifi that may be going out anyway. My wife was hacked in Narita, as I recall. (To be fair her laptop was old and not well secured. Though we still have it and it does still work . . . after I spent a lot of time disinfecting it.) Not sure that's a big deal. But it would be nice. I'd probably use it.

The KC mayor badly wants to replace MCI/KCI. There were a ton of articles out on it this week. They are taking proposal bids from firms. HOK may get involved. They were originally just going to give it to one firm but then the public got mad there wasn't a bid process so now they are rushing it. The original company gets the right to match any other proposal, it is kind of a cluster. I think this is the closest they have been to getting it done but a mentioned before there is still a lot of resistance. They were going to vote on it last year but I think it was projected to lose 60/40 so they pulled it from the ballot. They want to put it on the ballot this year now. It supposedly would be 100% privately financed. The money would be paid back with increase fees at the airport on tickets, parking, etc. That has met some skepticism though.

Here are a couple articles.

Bidding update
http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics ... 31394.html

This one specifically mentions flights STL got because of KCs horrible terminal set up for connections.
http://fox4kc.com/2017/05/30/watch-live ... l-project/

An article with some background
http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 90327.html



As to the Kansas airport. It is not open, it is just proposed as an alternative to KCI/MCI in Johnson County, Kansas.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/34484521/kan ... johnson-co

Europe Flight: The news of the incentives is huge. I want to see if they also have revenue guarantees in place. Also, I believe they are pitching the route as a regional alternative to ORD or DFW. I would really not be surprised if there is some type of KC - STL joint pitch going on. The reason I say this is because KCI only posts around 250-300 Europe bound travelers per day where STL is around 500*. With Southwest's KCI-STL flights occurring Morning and Evening, even though SWA has no partners with foreign airlines, it could make it possible for an individual to fly from KC to STL, leave T2 to go to T1 to check in for a presumably British Airways flight to London.

*correct me if I'm wrong

Speaking of KCI: the new Terminal will not be built. There is little to no public support for the project. The general Kansas Citian has no problem with the current layout. Albeit crowded, the convenience genuinely appeals. If in the slim chance a new KCI is built, there will be no massive expansion of flights. Prices will go up. IND and SMF got no additional flights or frequency from new terminals. There's no evidence KCI will. Southwest actually has clarified their stance on the issue recently. They said something to the effect that although they could increase their service out of KCI with a new terminal, there's nothing currently preventing them from expanding currently. In fact, their KCI station is quite dead during the afternoon and evening. The place empties around 9:30 AM, while STL's second 'bank' gets underway at around that time. With recent expansions at STL and DAL, there's no logical sense in KCI becoming a Southwest 'focus city'. The airport is poorly placed to have flights from TUL, OMA, ICT, and DSM to an extent. These are 4 highly trafficked STL connection points, just like how an IND-STL flight is illogical due to distance. KCI also is adequately served by Southwest at present. In fact, many of their outbound numbers from KCI are marginal. Southwest even arguably has expanded quite a bit at KCI in recent years, although not as sweeping as what they have done in St Louis. STL has infrastructure in place for high traffic volume, while KCI does not. There are indications that Delta may be gaining on Southwest's market share. Delta had upgraded all ATL service from KCI to 752s. It will be interesting to see what proposals come in for the new terminal.


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Chalupas54 wrote:Europe Flight: The news of the incentives is huge. I want to see if they also have revenue guarantees in place. Also, I believe they are pitching the route as a regional alternative to ORD or DFW. I would really not be surprised if there is some type of KC - STL joint pitch going on. The reason I say this is because KCI only posts around 250-300 Europe bound travelers per day where STL is around 500*. With Southwest's KCI-STL flights occurring Morning and Evening, even though SWA has no partners with foreign airlines, it could make it possible for an individual to fly from KC to STL, leave T2 to go to T1 to check in for a presumably British Airways flight to London.

*correct me if I'm wrong

Speaking of KCI: the new Terminal will not be built. There is little to no public support for the project. The general Kansas Citian has no problem with the current layout. Albeit crowded, the convenience genuinely appeals. If in the slim chance a new KCI is built, there will be no massive expansion of flights. Prices will go up. IND and SMF got no additional flights or frequency from new terminals. There's no evidence KCI will. Southwest actually has clarified their stance on the issue recently. They said something to the effect that although they could increase their service out of KCI with a new terminal, there's nothing currently preventing them from expanding currently. In fact, their KCI station is quite dead during the afternoon and evening. The place empties around 9:30 AM, while STL's second 'bank' gets underway at around that time. With recent expansions at STL and DAL, there's no logical sense in KCI becoming a Southwest 'focus city'. The airport is poorly placed to have flights from TUL, OMA, ICT, and DSM to an extent. These are 4 highly trafficked STL connection points, just like how an IND-STL flight is illogical due to distance. KCI also is adequately served by Southwest at present. In fact, many of their outbound numbers from KCI are marginal. Southwest even arguably has expanded quite a bit at KCI in recent years, although not as sweeping as what they have done in St Louis. STL has infrastructure in place for high traffic volume, while KCI does not. There are indications that Delta may be gaining on Southwest's market share. Delta had upgraded all ATL service from KCI to 752s. It will be interesting to see what proposals come in for the new terminal.


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Just at Logan Airport in Boston. They do offer free wifi, although it is not real fast.


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Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Jun 05, 2017

Europe Flight: The news of the incentives is huge. I want to see if they also have revenue guarantees in place. Also, I believe they are pitching the route as a regional alternative to ORD or DFW. I would really not be surprised if there is some type of KC - STL joint pitch going on. The reason I say this is because KCI only posts around 250-300 Europe bound travelers per day where STL is around 500*. With Southwest's KCI-STL flights occurring Morning and Evening, even though SWA has no partners with foreign airlines, it could make it possible for an individual to fly from KC to STL, leave T2 to go to T1 to check in for a presumably British Airways flight to London.

You're going to find next to no one who would utilize an option like this. When you can buy a single ticket on American, United or Delta to fly one-stop trans-Atlantic, the only reason you'd choose an option like this is if there was a significant fare difference -- and you would only find that on Norwegian or WOW, not British Airways.

Compound the hassle factor of reclaiming bags and changing terminals, there is no reprotection when buying separate tickets like this. If you're first flight is delayed and you miss your second flight, you are totally and completely out of luck, unless the second airline is overly sympathetic. No worries like this when buying a through ticket on AA, UA or DL.

Greg

I flew through E on 05/30. Wandered down past E33... and the entrance to the new gates was still gated off. However, everything looked just about ready. No plastic on the moving walkway, new blue signage, all the lights were on. The only sign that any construction was going on was a couple of scissor lifts were parked in the hallway just west of the gate. Looks ready to open any minute!

Also, the Stella bar that was open across from E29 has been removed. Nothing has taken its place.

Speaking of the old ambassadors club in C and the reactivation of C29 and C30, that got me wondering... how likely is it that Delta would move to C in order to open a sky club in the old ambassador's club space? Delta currently has 6 gates in A (A2, A3, A4, A6, A8, A10). With the reactivation of C29 and C30, along with the permanent opening of C27 and C28, could Delta take over these four, along with C19 and C23, bringing them up to 6 gates in C? Alaska currently occupies C19 and C23, so they could be moved to 2 of Delta's former gates in A. This would leave 4 open gates for future airlines in A. This also allows for future expansion of Delta into the remaining closed gates of C. This depends on a lot of variables, but might be attractive to Delta.

stlouisian133 wrote: ↑

Jun 05, 2017

Speaking of the old ambassadors club in C and the reactivation of C29 and C30, that got me wondering... how likely is it that Delta would move to C in order to open a sky club in the old ambassador's club space?

Not likely at all. In 2011ish, Delta was looking at setting up a "SkyClub Lite" on the A concourse and that proposal died a slow death. Considering DL has fewer flights at Lambert today compared to that timeframe... I don't see that happening at all.

Greg

Thanks everyone for explaining and clarifying it to me as mentioned I'm not much of an airport enthusiast like some are on here though someday that'll change once i decide to take a few trips over seas..
i appreciate it thanks!

Just went out today and the moving walkways were being tested it seems. Also talked to people and said the section will open up in two weeks. Also got to see the Blue Angels since they were at Boeing.

Flight to Charleston was only about half full, though could be due to they only had it available for booking for 6 weeks which is not much time to fill seats. When I landed there I did end up seeing and taking a picture of one of the Dreamlifters that is used for the Boeing facility there.

Channel 4 did a story on the Europe service today. It mainly talks about the Port Authority money but I thought it was interesting. It is a video, about 2 minutes long. Actually interviewed people in the airport today from the UK here on their honeymoon. It is their first time in St. Louis. They mentioned that St. Louis is a good spot to start a road trip. The guy said he likes the heat and humidity..... poor guy, I doubt that lasts long. haha

http://www.kmov.com/story/35594568/dire ... ear-future

Oddly enough, I had a chat with the owner of my company a week ago, he lives in Sweden, and apparently he does road trips here all the time. He will fly into DC or Chicago and drive to St. Louis from there. On this last trip, he was driving to Toronto from St. Louis and flying home from there. I always picture Europeans taking public transit and not being big on driving. That shows how much I know.

shadrach wrote: ↑

Jun 06, 2017

I think I prefer Lufthansa as well. With Monsanto/Bayer, KWS, Schattdecor and others with offices here, I was hoping German businesses would go to bat for St. Louis.

Sigma/Merck is another major one to consider for a German (Frankfurt) flight.

Oh, one other small thing I noticed when out at the airport yesterday: a nice interim aerial between some others we'd discussed here. Here's one from 1987 after the D concourse was well and truly completed, but before anything was cleared for the new terminal:



The WN trailer isn't there yet. Maybe they're down at the end of D, but I have dim recollections that they might have been in A at one time. Still plenty of buildings inside the footprint of what will be T2, maybe mostly hangars, and of course a lot of parking. Sorry I don't have a clearer picture. I was having a real bear getting that one to even focus right. It's in the exhibit area near the landside C concourse waiting area. Quite a lot of historic stuff right now. There's even a large touchscreen terminal on the ticketing level on the balcony over the C security area by the monocoupe. You can scroll through a bunch of neat old letters and photographs. It's kind of fun, but there's so little civilian traffic there I'm not sure how many people will see it.

Some interesting things to take from an SWA discussion board on airliners.net

- Most believe in the next schedule extension on June 22nd, STL will pick up IND, CLT, and CVG.
- SWA also will most likely nix the DSM route, as load numbers are reportedly pitiful between both STL and LAS.
- It is also a possible that STL will pick up Jacksonville, as well as Richmond-citing no room for expansion out of Midway.

Albeit a giant rumor mill, I found it significant how many posters believe STL will pick up those routes.

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Jun 06, 2017

Some interesting things to take from an SWA discussion board on airliners.net

- Most believe in the next schedule extension on June 22nd, STL will pick up IND, CLT, and CVG.
- SWA also will most likely nix the DSM route, as load numbers are reportedly pitiful between both STL and LAS.
- It is also a possible that STL will pick up Jacksonville, as well as Richmond-citing no room for expansion out of Midway.

Albeit a giant rumor mill, I found it significant how many posters believe STL will pick up those routes.

I think that is pretty optimistic if people think we are getting all of those. CVG I can see because they will probably add connection points for them in the near future. The rest who knows but I can't see us getting more than 2 new cities at a time. We'll see.

People on there always say DSM is getting cut. Every time I see DSM's numbers their loads are higher than most. Not that loads are everything but I think they are fine. I also think if some place didn't get cut when Southwest was down planes at the end of this year that it probably will make it for awhile.

Someone posted this from 2016 numbers on Southwest.

Medium/small hub airports – central & west
82.9% DSM
81.8% OMA
81.5% GRR
80.0% RNO
79.6% CLE
78.9% MKE
77.6% BOI
77.6% SDF
77.5% IND
77.2% CMH
75.9% TUS
75.6% CAK (gone now)
75.0% ICT
74.7% MEM
73.8% GEG
73.6% BHM
73.2% DAY (gone now)
70.1% FNT

They have begun hanging the sculpture in T2. Also, flightaware indicated that a Virgin Atlantic 747-400 was chartered into KSTL today to Amsterdam. Left from one of the C gates.


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Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Jun 08, 2017

They have begun hanging the sculpture in T2. Also, flightaware indicated that a Virgin Atlantic 747-400 was chartered into KSTL today to Amsterdam. Left from one of the C gates.


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Dang it! I didn't even look today! (I check in most days lately to see what's on the public schedule.) Anybody get pics?