urbanSTL

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

May 31, 2017

rbb wrote: ↑

May 31, 2017

imperialmog wrote: ↑

May 30, 2017

I think the thing to note is comparing those 90s numbers and today, is what is the traffic in each case once you strip out connecting traffic. Mainly is the local origin and destination traffic higher now than then? If I had to guess its overall not much different, mainly since a lot of people were going to nearby places in the 90s that are now driving to which is offsetting gains elsewhere.

Yep, that's exactly what I was curious to see.

-RBB

That's a great question. I was digging around after somebody posted the bid documents and maybe another report a while back. If that was you, my apologies for telling you a story you told me, as it were. That said, there's quite a treasure trove of old reports in a public notice folder on the airport's website if you haven't already seen them:

http://www.flystl.com/uploads/documents ... d-reports/

Some of them have some pretty good information on gate utilization, and there's quite a lot of passenger numbers, but I'm not quite seeing what you're looking for. Might not be looking quite right. Fascinating stuff either way.

Project No. & Title: 11.10 – Reactivate Gates C29 and C30 (building, 2 new boarding bridges)
Project Description: This project entails acquiring and installing 2 new passenger boarding bridges and associated Ground Power Units and Pre-Condition Air Units at Gates C29 and C30. The project will allow the reopening of Concourse C between East of C28 and west of C32. The reopening of the gates will also include updates to the electrical, plumbing, and lighting systems and architectural updates that include new flooring, signage, wall and ceiling paint, restroom rehabilitation, and the installation of 325 hold room seats including updated seat upholstery, making the area usable for passengers. However, the PFC funding request is limited to a portion of the costs to acquire and install the boarding bridges, Ground Power Units and Pre-Condition Air Units. The new boarding bridges are intended for gates C29 and C30, which will be considered “City Gates” open to any air carrier on a per turn basis, until such time as either or both may be leased by an air carrier as a Preferential Use gate. Many of the gates not currently leased as Preferential Use gates are regularly used on a Per Turn basis, at a volume that strains their utility if additional air carriers were to begin service at STL.

Currently, Terminal 1 has 1 spare passenger boarding bridge at Concourse A and 2 spare passenger boarding bridges at Concourse C. On the A Concourse, City Gates with boarding bridges are gates A9, A15, and A17. The A15 gate is used almost daily by a scheduled charter operator and gate A17 is under consideration by an airline for lease as a Preferential Use gate and in fact is currently used frequently by United Airlines for diversions and overflow (approximately 70 occurrences during the last half of 2016). Gate A9 is the only A Concourse gate that is not in regular use, and is limited by its somewhat small holdroom size (approximately 1,400 square feet).

Concourse C spare bridges are occupied daily by irregular operations from the current Concourse C airlines, leaving no additional gates for new entrant airlines. American Airlines has used gate C27 as a per turn gate 39 times and gate C28 138 times in the second half of 2016. Providing the availability of 2 new gate holds and boarding bridges, allows the airport to offer ready space for an increase in operations by new airlines and/or existing airlines, accommodating a wide range of aircraft from regional to widebody. Relative to broader airline demand, STL experienced a 2.7% increase in enplaned passengers in calendar year 2015 and a 9.6% increase in 2016.

STL is a covered airport under 49 USC 47106(f) and under the terms of that provision has submitted competition plans for FAA acceptance. The Airport understands that the purpose of the competition plan requirement is to assure that a covered airport has facilities or procedures in place to assure that new entrants or carriers desiring to expand service can be accommodated. Completion of this project will assure that gates are readily available to accommodate new entrants or expansion by incumbent carriers. While STL to date has been able to accommodate new entry or expansion that would enhance competition, the lack of unused gate capacity could become a restraint on competition should new entrants seek accommodation or incumbents seek to expand at the Airport in the future. This project will alleviate that constraint.

rbb wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2017

From ^ that link comes this doc, a public notice released on May 9th, 2017 that the airport intends to file an application with the FAA to impose a $3 FPC charge. Most of the money raised is to go for maintenance/replacement of vehicles, but I thought this was interesting - bolds mine:

Project No. & Title: 11.10 – Reactivate Gates C29 and C30 (building, 2 new boarding bridges)
Project Description: This project entails acquiring and installing 2 new passenger boarding bridges and associated Ground Power Units and Pre-Condition Air Units at Gates C29 and C30. The project will allow the reopening of Concourse C between East of C28 and west of C32. The reopening of the gates will also include updates to the electrical, plumbing, and lighting systems and architectural updates that include new flooring, signage, wall and ceiling paint, restroom rehabilitation, and the installation of 325 hold room seats including updated seat upholstery, making the area usable for passengers. However, the PFC funding request is limited to a portion of the costs to acquire and install the boarding bridges, Ground Power Units and Pre-Condition Air Units. The new boarding bridges are intended for gates C29 and C30, which will be considered “City Gates” open to any air carrier on a per turn basis, until such time as either or both may be leased by an air carrier as a Preferential Use gate. Many of the gates not currently leased as Preferential Use gates are regularly used on a Per Turn basis, at a volume that strains their utility if additional air carriers were to begin service at STL.

Currently, Terminal 1 has 1 spare passenger boarding bridge at Concourse A and 2 spare passenger boarding bridges at Concourse C. On the A Concourse, City Gates with boarding bridges are gates A9, A15, and A17. The A15 gate is used almost daily by a scheduled charter operator and gate A17 is under consideration by an airline for lease as a Preferential Use gate and in fact is currently used frequently by United Airlines for diversions and overflow (approximately 70 occurrences during the last half of 2016). Gate A9 is the only A Concourse gate that is not in regular use, and is limited by its somewhat small holdroom size (approximately 1,400 square feet).

Concourse C spare bridges are occupied daily by irregular operations from the current Concourse C airlines, leaving no additional gates for new entrant airlines. American Airlines has used gate C27 as a per turn gate 39 times and gate C28 138 times in the second half of 2016. Providing the availability of 2 new gate holds and boarding bridges, allows the airport to offer ready space for an increase in operations by new airlines and/or existing airlines, accommodating a wide range of aircraft from regional to widebody. Relative to broader airline demand, STL experienced a 2.7% increase in enplaned passengers in calendar year 2015 and a 9.6% increase in 2016.

STL is a covered airport under 49 USC 47106(f) and under the terms of that provision has submitted competition plans for FAA acceptance. The Airport understands that the purpose of the competition plan requirement is to assure that a covered airport has facilities or procedures in place to assure that new entrants or carriers desiring to expand service can be accommodated. Completion of this project will assure that gates are readily available to accommodate new entrants or expansion by incumbent carriers. While STL to date has been able to accommodate new entry or expansion that would enhance competition, the lack of unused gate capacity could become a restraint on competition should new entrants seek accommodation or incumbents seek to expand at the Airport in the future. This project will alleviate that constraint.

-RBB

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2017

A couple questions for those of you that fly through C. I haven't been in it in years.

How far is it opened to at the moment?

I see gates 23/24 are occupied by Frontier/American. I gate map says 27/28 are usable but vacant. I am guessing they are used for overflow once in awhile, but are they open to the concourse now or are they behind a wall? At one point I heard someone talking about deboarding at an overflow gate behind the wall set up at the end of the concourse. I wasn't sure where the current concourse is walled off.

gregl wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2017

The C concourse has been renovated through C24. Gates C27 & C28 are used as overflow gates by American and are located behind the walled off portion of the C concourse. Access to that area is available only when flights are imminently departing from one of those gates.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2017

Thanks Greg. That is what I thought but I wasn't sure. With them being used more I thought maybe they moved the wall beyond them. Have you been back there recently? Is it rough looking?

imperialmog wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2017

As for making opening up more C gates, that seems to heavily imply some need for it in the not too distant future. One other possibility is that Alaska might need to add a 2nd gate since I looked Google flights they are still having the new San Diego Service at almost the same time as the Portland flight (also noticed, at that time they are making both Seattle flights mainline again) And wouldn't surprise me if they later on add a Bay Area or LA flight.

imperialmog wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2017

Wouldn't A17 possibly be related to Air Canada starting a 3rd flight a day and having a plane parked overnight? Also wonder too if any A gate could be configured to be widebody capable or if spacing is an issue in all gates.

As for making opening up more C gates, that seems to heavily imply some need for it in the not too distant future. One other possibility is that Alaska might need to add a 2nd gate since I looked Google flights they are still having the new San Diego Service at almost the same time as the Portland flight (also noticed, at that time they are making both Seattle flights mainline again) And wouldn't surprise me if they later on add a Bay Area or LA flight.

I'll be in terminal 2 Monday flying out and will hopefully get pictures on where the new gate areas is.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2017

Good finds!

It is great seeing more of the airport open back up.

A couple questions for those of you that fly through C. I haven't been in it in years.

How far is it opened to at the moment?

I see gates 23/24 are occupied by Frontier/American. I gate map says 27/28 are usable but vacant. I am guessing they are used for overflow once in awhile, but are they open to the concourse now or are they behind a wall? At one point I heard someone talking about deboarding at an overflow gate behind the wall set up at the end of the concourse. I wasn't sure where the current concourse is walled off.

Do we think A17 is United wanting another gate since they use it some anyways, or a new carrier?

Do we think these moves are proacitive or this means there actually is something in the works for C?

Thoughts on new carrier options:

British Airways: probabaly would fly out of C since they are aligned with American. Obviously would fly into T2.
Jetblue: I think they would fly out of C so they would have the option to easily add a 2nd gate at some point but I guess they could start in A. They don't have any US partners.
Spirit: I would rather them not come... But like JetBlue I would think C for extra gate options but they could start with one in A. No partners.
WestJet: They are partnered with American and Delta. They could use both but could make sense for the A spot to be near Delta. I can't see them wanting more than one gate anytime soon.
Any other Europe options I am just going to assume would probably fly into T2 and out of C to make sure it has enough room in the boarding area for a bigger plane. Star Alliance and Sky Team members could make sense for A17 but I am not sure about the boarding area size issues/tarmac size issues (it looks like a tight fit already) or what it would take to be set it up for a bigger plane.

A lot of people on here have more knowledge than me though. Any input would be great.

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Jun 03, 2017

It does seem likely, but I wouldn't be absolutely sure that British or American would fly into T2. Gates 30 and 32 appear to have access to the old customs area beneath C. (As do 34-38 on the N and E sides for that matter, but not 31 or 33 on the S.) That would, of course, require at least some new equipment, but nobody seems to care quite as much how nice the fit and finish of a customs area looks, so it might be a cheap fix. (Relatively speaking. When you're talking projects that run into eight digits.) The T2 customs gates, E 31 and 29, were (and apparently remain) city gates. (Though WN, I believe, has preference at 31.) The C concourse customs were TWA gates. Apparently FIS (Federal Immigration Services) still holds the lease to at least the stairways to the C concourse customs, assuming the city's plans are correct. And TSA still leases space out at the end of C as well, up on the third floor. Probably easier to just use T2, but given how crowded that's gotten I wouldn't be completely shocked if they went the other way. Anyway . . .

Oh my but that is exciting stuff! That doesn't leave very much closed in C. Just the four gates at the bitter end, which were always a bit quieter anyway as I recall. (The spacings are pretty darn tight.)

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2017

I'll believe when I see it. This is STL, where premature ejaculation is the norm.

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Jun 03, 2017

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2017

Good finds!

It is great seeing more of the airport open back up.

A couple questions for those of you that fly through C. I haven't been in it in years.

How far is it opened to at the moment?

I see gates 23/24 are occupied by Frontier/American. I gate map says 27/28 are usable but vacant. I am guessing they are used for overflow once in awhile, but are they open to the concourse now or are they behind a wall? At one point I heard someone talking about deboarding at an overflow gate behind the wall set up at the end of the concourse. I wasn't sure where the current concourse is walled off.

Do we think A17 is United wanting another gate since they use it some anyways, or a new carrier?

Do we think these moves are proacitive or this means there actually is something in the works for C?

Thoughts on new carrier options:

British Airways: probabaly would fly out of C since they are aligned with American. Obviously would fly into T2.
Jetblue: I think they would fly out of C so they would have the option to easily add a 2nd gate at some point but I guess they could start in A. They don't have any US partners.
Spirit: I would rather them not come... But like JetBlue I would think C for extra gate options but they could start with one in A. No partners.
WestJet: They are partnered with American and Delta. They could use both but could make sense for the A spot to be near Delta. I can't see them wanting more than one gate anytime soon.
Any other Europe options I am just going to assume would probably fly into T2 and out of C to make sure it has enough room in the boarding area for a bigger plane. Star Alliance and Sky Team members could make sense for A17 but I am not sure about the boarding area size issues/tarmac size issues (it looks like a tight fit already) or what it would take to be set it up for a bigger plane.

A lot of people on here have more knowledge than me though. Any input would be great.

It does seem likely, but I wouldn't be absolutely sure that British or American would fly into T2. Gates 30 and 32 appear to have access to the old customs area beneath C. (As do 34-38 on the N and E sides for that matter, but not 31 or 33 on the S.) That would, of course, require at least some new equipment, but nobody seems to care quite as much how nice the fit and finish of a customs area looks, so it might be a cheap fix. (Relatively speaking. When you're talking projects that run into eight digits.) The T2 customs gates, E 31 and 29, were (and apparently remain) city gates. (Though WN, I believe, has preference at 31.) The C concourse customs were TWA gates. Apparently FIS (Federal Immigration Services) still holds the lease to at least the stairways to the C concourse customs, assuming the city's plans are correct. And TSA still leases space out at the end of C as well, up on the third floor. Probably easier to just use T2, but given how crowded that's gotten I wouldn't be completely shocked if they went the other way. Anyway . . .

Oh my but that is exciting stuff! That doesn't leave very much closed in C. Just the four gates at the bitter end, which were always a bit quieter anyway as I recall. (The spacings are pretty darn tight.)

bds520 wrote:

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Jun 03, 2017

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Jun 02, 2017

Good finds!

It is great seeing more of the airport open back up.

A couple questions for those of you that fly through C. I haven't been in it in years.

How far is it opened to at the moment?

I see gates 23/24 are occupied by Frontier/American. I gate map says 27/28 are usable but vacant. I am guessing they are used for overflow once in awhile, but are they open to the concourse now or are they behind a wall? At one point I heard someone talking about deboarding at an overflow gate behind the wall set up at the end of the concourse. I wasn't sure where the current concourse is walled off.

Do we think A17 is United wanting another gate since they use it some anyways, or a new carrier?

Do we think these moves are proacitive or this means there actually is something in the works for C?

Thoughts on new carrier options:

British Airways: probabaly would fly out of C since they are aligned with American. Obviously would fly into T2.
Jetblue: I think they would fly out of C so they would have the option to easily add a 2nd gate at some point but I guess they could start in A. They don't have any US partners.
Spirit: I would rather them not come... But like JetBlue I would think C for extra gate options but they could start with one in A. No partners.
WestJet: They are partnered with American and Delta. They could use both but could make sense for the A spot to be near Delta. I can't see them wanting more than one gate anytime soon.
Any other Europe options I am just going to assume would probably fly into T2 and out of C to make sure it has enough room in the boarding area for a bigger plane. Star Alliance and Sky Team members could make sense for A17 but I am not sure about the boarding area size issues/tarmac size issues (it looks like a tight fit already) or what it would take to be set it up for a bigger plane.

A lot of people on here have more knowledge than me though. Any input would be great.

It does seem likely, but I wouldn't be absolutely sure that British or American would fly into T2. Gates 30 and 32 appear to have access to the old customs area beneath C. (As do 34-38 on the N and E sides for that matter, but not 31 or 33 on the S.) That would, of course, require at least some new equipment, but nobody seems to care quite as much how nice the fit and finish of a customs area looks, so it might be a cheap fix. (Relatively speaking. When you're talking projects that run into eight digits.) The T2 customs gates, E 31 and 29, were (and apparently remain) city gates. (Though WN, I believe, has preference at 31.) The C concourse customs were TWA gates. Apparently FIS (Federal Immigration Services) still holds the lease to at least the stairways to the C concourse customs, assuming the city's plans are correct. And TSA still leases space out at the end of C as well, up on the third floor. Probably easier to just use T2, but given how crowded that's gotten I wouldn't be completely shocked if they went the other way. Anyway . . .

Oh my but that is exciting stuff! That doesn't leave very much closed in C. Just the four gates at the bitter end, which were always a bit quieter anyway as I recall. (The spacings are pretty darn tight.)

Gotta think its BA or Norwegian (LGW) that would start service. Knowing that St. Louis is the world we live in, I'd think the latter is more likely though....

Speaking of the third floor, what is up there? I remember it vaguely as a kid but I think access is blocked off to it at the moment, right? Anyone have any pics?

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Jun 03, 2017

Oh my but that is exciting stuff! That doesn't leave very much closed in C. Just the four gates at the bitter end, which were always a bit quieter anyway as I recall. (The spacings are pretty darn tight.)

gregl wrote: ↑

Jun 03, 2017

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Jun 03, 2017

Oh my but that is exciting stuff! That doesn't leave very much closed in C. Just the four gates at the bitter end, which were always a bit quieter anyway as I recall. (The spacings are pretty darn tight.)

Actually, there would be 7 more gates if C29 & C30 are reopened - C31. C33 & C35 on the south side, C32 & C34 on the north side and C36 & C38 on the eastern end.