urbanSTL

Brown & Crouppen very seriously considering moving to Clayton over the violence downtown.


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downtown2007 wrote: ↑

Feb 01, 2017

We are too busy scrutinizing cops instead of going after criminals.

Isn't one of the challenges here the lack of trust between police and the rest of the community though? For example, I've frequently heard that it's hard to go after criminals when witnesses to crimes won't cooperate because they don't trust the police. I'm not sure that scrutinizing cops is the right way to build that trust, but something certainly needs to be done on that front.

There is likely a major issue of distrust between the police and the citizens in many neighborhoods, but I doubt that is much of an issue in Downtown. Crime is too high City-wide, but each neighborhood likely has its own slightly different issues.

Hopefully the business community Downtown will put presssure on the City government to improve. The Business community keeps mentioning how we need to upgrade the convention center to keep up with Nashville, Indy, KC, etc. I wonder how our Downtown compares to those Downtowns on violent crime stats?

hiddeninput wrote:

downtown2007 wrote: ↑

Feb 01, 2017

We are too busy scrutinizing cops instead of going after criminals.

Isn't one of the challenges here the lack of trust between police and the rest of the community though? For example, I've frequently heard that it's hard to go after criminals when witnesses to crimes won't cooperate because they don't trust the police. I'm not sure that scrutinizing cops is the right way to build that trust, but something certainly needs to be done on that front.

Is it trust or fear of retaliation? Probably retaliation.


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Sadly, the "Snitches get stitches" attitude is still very much in effect.

framer wrote:Sadly, the "Snitches get stitches" attitude is still very much in effect.

Yes and that's why we have such a high crime rate. They have created an environment that fosters committing crimes without consequences. You have to protect your witnesses.


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Isn't there a threat with the city that they might lose control over the police department again if there isn't action? Also who knows what Trump meant by the feds stepping in to fight crime in Chicago, since that would almost certainly apply here and I get the feeling you don't want to find out what that means.

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Feb 01, 2017

Brown & Crouppen very seriously considering moving to Clayton over the violence downtown.

Maybe if more downtown companies voiced their concerns we'd see improved policing and less crime downtown....

Wouldn't it be great if for one Friday or Saturday night Greitens put the National Guard on all corners of DT. Then you invite all food trucks, bars and restaurants to stay open late and have a mega-party. I would bet 10's of thousands wold come DT to party and show how much potential DT has....

Maybe this has been mentioned before but I didn't read through all the comments...

I see alderman/others say we need more police. I also hear them say we have in the budget for 100 more officers. So why aren't they being hired? Then they say we need more money for police. Something here to me doesn't add up. They complain we need more but then don't say why the 100 extra we have budgeted for aren't being hired. I am fine with giving the police more money but when they already aren't hiring what is already in the budget then where is that money going? Why would they need more money when they aren't spending their budget for cops now?

Maybe someone can clear this up for me.

i think it (at least some) is being spent on overtime.

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2017

Wouldn't it be great if for one Friday or Saturday night Greitens put the National Guard on all corners of DT. Then you invite all food trucks, bars and restaurants to stay open late and have a mega-party. I would bet 10's of thousands wold come DT to party and show how much potential DT has....

...and then one of the National Guardsmen (who have no training in community policing) gets jumpy and opens fire on a real or perceived bad guy and all hell breaks out.

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Feb 01, 2017

Brown & Crouppen very seriously considering moving to Clayton over the violence downtown.


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http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 05ca5.html

moorlander wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2017

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Feb 01, 2017

Brown & Crouppen very seriously considering moving to Clayton over the violence downtown.

Maybe if more downtown companies voiced their concerns we'd see improved policing and less crime downtown....

I have mixed feelings about the Brown & Crouppen stuff... I'm not saying they aren't sincere and have another agenda but it does seem a bit off. Not a fan of Chief Dotson, but he got it right in his response that he's willing to talk to the entire staff about concerns... people aren't helpless and the downtown community can work together to become more informed and active on crime and other quality of life issues. Also, I think we need to distinguish a bit the downtown safety environment for workers and some of the violent crime that's been happening.... I believe they specifically were citing the shooting outside Hooter's as an example,,, that happened on a Friday night at 11:30 p.m. and there was a police officer inside at the time. I just don't know what you can do about preventing an incident like that where someone is targeted and the perpetrators are determined to shoot you. A couple other shootings recently downtown have been inside apartment buildings as well and cases of arguments between acquaintances. And finally, while any downtown violent crime is a concern, it's not any worse than what it's been than in the past.

Anyway, I think on one hand the way B & C went about this is kind of a wake-up call but on the other it was kind of odd.

The thing is, whether Downtown crime is up, down, or targeted only at gangbangers is irrelevant; people's perception of crime is the only thing that matters. Until people feel safe, Downtown will continue to stuggle.

I think B&C want to stay but with social media and how the local news sensationalized ever single crime, their employees uneasy (Way more than a a decade ago). That's why, even though crime is down downtown, they feel unsafe. The shooting out front of Hooters was the last straw and the announcement was a shot across the bow to police and and city leaders that this needs to stop.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2017

Maybe this has been mentioned before but I didn't read through all the comments...

I see alderman/others say we need more police. I also hear them say we have in the budget for 100 more officers. So why aren't they being hired? Then they say we need more money for police. Something here to me doesn't add up. They complain we need more but then don't say why the 100 extra we have budgeted for aren't being hired. I am fine with giving the police more money but when they already aren't hiring what is already in the budget then where is that money going? Why would they need more money when they aren't spending their budget for cops now?

Maybe someone can clear this up for me.

quincunx wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2017

i think it (at least some) is being spent on overtime.

Yes, Dotson claims overtime, lack of candidates, lead time to get thru the academy and high turnover.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 2fec1.html

KMOV actually ran a non-alarmist story on how downtown residents feel....

http://www.kmov.com/story/34424564/do-r ... -feel-safe

Ugh, is there any hope?

Mother Jones- Lead: America's Real Criminal Element

Wrong. As it turns out, tetraethyl lead is like a zombie that refuses to die. Our cars may be lead-free today, but they spent more than 50 years spewing lead from their tailpipes, and all that lead had to go somewhere. And it did: It settled permanently into the soil that we walk on, grow our food in, and let our kids play around.

That's especially true in the inner cores of big cities, which had the highest density of automobile traffic. Mielke has been studying lead in soil for years, focusing most of his attention on his hometown of New Orleans, and he's measured 10 separate census tracts there with lead levels over 1,000 parts per million.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/ ... ren-health

Sure. Knowing is half the battle, and this is the sort of thing that could be attacked on a local level. That's a really persuasive article. I'll spin it by my biologist and see what he says. Would be good to investigate the research a little. But I like that. It's practical. At a glance the data looks good and clean, and it appears to be reproducible. If it turns out to be true you could, I think, start a testing program by putting out a smattering of collectors around town to sample airborne lead levels at the driest parts of the year. Even as few as a hundred would give you some insight. Once you've identified the worst affected areas go in and make sure you know the sources there and begin a targeted remediation program, yard by yard, block by block, neighborhood by neighborhood. And if for ten years you hit the worst affected neighborhoods every year you'll make a difference. While you're at it introduce some basic incentives for careful window replacement. People might even jump at that and chip in some of their own money, as it will help you save on heating bills. This one need only be an incentive, not a full blown program. Yes, there is hope. Good read.

Here's the STL effort on lead. Feels like a drop in the bucket. Focus is on paint, understandable given the awareness of it. And lead pipes too. What blew my mind is the soil with the tetraethyl lead hanging around, never heard of that before. It's yet another deterrent to raising a family in the city.

Lead Inspection and Hazard Control Division
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... ection.cfm

City of St. Louis Earns Grant to Continue Lead Remediation
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... iation.cfm

StlToday - St. Louis' stubborn lead poisoning problem
http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/heal ... 739b3.html

I suppose I read your question differently. Sure, the efforts focus on pipes and paint here. There's focus on lead in the soil down in the old lead belt, but the story above needs to get out.

Not sure if this is the best thread to put this in, but this front page article on the area heroin/fentanyl epidemic with a focus on the city is pretty much essential reading...

A mass killer: St. Louis heroin deaths hit new high
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... e40b4.html

More than 650 people died from opioid overdoses in the St. Louis region in 2016, more than four times the number in 2007. Toxicology results continue to come in...

And this is going on all across the country.