Yeah, I am concerned about the visibility of this intersection. It could help to have some lights alerting people that there's a stop light coming up like they have in Clayton further down FPP.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:Looking at the connecter with access to both directions to FPP, I think that intersection is a nightmare in the making. While I imagine they'll soften the bend heading into the underpass eastbound, having a stop light immediately after the bridge "tunnel" east bound and after the downhill S turn coming west bound is going to be dicey at best and outright dangerous at worst with the speeds typically driven on the parkway.
I am still not clear about connector and initially I thought there would be no westbound connector from FPP to Union but looking closely now, are you saying that the EB and WB connectors are both the same with just a divider? Need to get my bifocals.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Jan 04, 2024Looking at the connecter with access to both directions to FPP, I think that intersection is a nightmare in the making. While I imagine they'll soften the bend heading into the underpass eastbound, having a stop light immediately after the bridge "tunnel" east bound and after the downhill S turn coming west bound is going to be dicey at best and outright dangerous at worst with the speeds typically driven on the parkway.
Thank you.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Jan 04, 2024
If you zoom in you can see that the connector has turn lanes for both directions. New stop light will go in.
) or Kingshighway exit (yet another nightmare )I am. And I was familiar with it before the roundabout as well. I really don't recall it being any better beforehand. Quite the opposite, in fact, though memory is a bit fuzzy. Ultimately the problem is that too many people access the park by car, from a highway. I recall seeing a traffic study of the various park entrances and the disparity between that one and every single other one was mindboggling. The real culprit may be the rebuild of 40. It was busy before, but sweet Jesus it's awful now. Especially right there. (Says a guy who took Hampton from 44 to 40 earlier today. I often take Truman Parkway and drive lazily through the west edge of downtown just to avoid that nonsense. And because downtown is pretty.)stlurbanist wrote: ↑Jan 04, 2024I believe (to my naive mind) that the frequent forest park events would be a nightmare (for a roundabout) and cause traffic backup. Are you familiar with round about at I-64 and Hampton going out of zoo?symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jan 04, 2024Disappointing. This is a perfect case for a traffic circle. Is there any statistical argument against one? I've rather gotten the impression they're better for pedestrians, cyclists, and drivers alike. (Not to mention maintenance and the environment.) Am I missing something? I know US drivers are resistant, but . . . we can grow up if that's really the only argument here.
I agree about westbound exit ramp but the new connector is still going to be an issue.tztag wrote: ↑Jan 10, 2024I live near it and although I would rather not have an additional stop on FPP, eliminating that westbound exit ramp and going to 4 way from 5 is a huge safety win. People exiting FPP westbound routinely run the red with a lot of speed and unless you count to three on a green light on Lindell there is a high chance of getting T-boned. I wanted a roundabout too but drivers can’t seem to figure them out around here so not concerned any more. Shame to lose the cohesion of design though, the park entrance is nice but with nothing on the north side of the intersection it goes against the original concept. That big space on the northwest side will just be a trash collector.
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I think it's way too early to say drivers here can't figure them out. The new ones in Carondelet Park are working wonderfully. People are sometimes a bit hesitant, and I'm cautious when in them to make sure people coming off the dominant street are actually going to yield. But they're working. Traffic flows better through the park now, and it feels so much safer it's mind boggling. One of the whole point to the things is that they largely eliminate the possibility of getting t-boned. Everyone knows which way to look. They're easy.tztag wrote: ↑Jan 10, 2024I live near it and although I would rather not have an additional stop on FPP, eliminating that westbound exit ramp and going to 4 way from 5 is a huge safety win. People exiting FPP westbound routinely run the red with a lot of speed and unless you count to three on a green light on Lindell there is a high chance of getting T-boned. I wanted a roundabout too but drivers can’t seem to figure them out around here so not concerned any more. Shame to lose the cohesion of design though, the park entrance is nice but with nothing on the north side of the intersection it goes against the original concept. That big space on the northwest side will just be a trash collector.
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If I remember right, there were a lot of crashes involving that little street. Closing it off to through traffic seems to have made a big difference.framer wrote: ↑Jan 13, 2024Sorry if this has been mentioned, but is there any talk about re-opening that diagonal cross-cut street for making a right from Lindell onto Union? I never understood why it was shut down; it would eliminate a good number of cars from even using the main intersection.
I would go the other way and abandon that right of way altogether, let the home owners buy it as a private driveway rather than remaining as a city maintained streetMattnSTL wrote: ↑Jan 13, 2024If I remember right, there were a lot of crashes involving that little street. Closing it off to through traffic seems to have made a big difference.framer wrote: ↑Jan 13, 2024Sorry if this has been mentioned, but is there any talk about re-opening that diagonal cross-cut street for making a right from Lindell onto Union? I never understood why it was shut down; it would eliminate a good number of cars from even using the main intersection.
There are indeed standards. They're evolving, as we're still really quite new at the roundabout game, but you can find links to many of them on FHA's page on roundabouts. And there are still plenty of older traffic circles designed according to earlier standards, or no standards at all that are allowed to remain, like New Halls Ferry or Tower Grove Park. Those aren't roundabouts in the modern sense, but the nomenclature has evolved quite a lot over the last twenty years or so, and it hasn't necessarily percolated down to civilians such as myself well yet. I'm convinced people will figure it out as they become more widespread. Right now we have, what, maybe a half dozen or so? A city of this size in the UK would probably have dozens upon dozens. One arterial road in Peterborough might have more than we have in the entire region. I can understand why you might think people can't figure it out. The state of driving here right now is abysmal. But they're still pretty uncommon. Most people don't drive through them often, and some people probably never do, if they don't happen to travel through one of the few neighborhoods that has one. There are two on one of my more common routes, so I get to watch as people start to figure them out. You still get plenty of newbs, but by and in large it's a lot smoother now than it was a year ago. And honestly, even in the UK I saw drivers who tore through them recklessly or just stared at them in confusion. (And it wasn't even just me.tztag wrote: ↑Jan 17, 2024The interstate highway system has a consistent set of standards across the US, so reasonable to expect that we all learn the rules. I wonder if there are standards for roundabouts? I have no idea if there are, but if not I hope they are established. I was in the UK over the holiday and they work incredibly well but they are also incredibly consistent in their implementation and signage.
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I was driving over there for three months, and I drove from London to Edinburgh, the Trossachs to Norwich, and most every place in between on little one lane tracks and the A1(M). I won't call myself an expert, but by the end of it I was pretty comfortable.) Anyway, don't despair. We'll learn. And trust the roundabout. The numbers don't lie.
