Your guess is as good as mine gin. Just when I think I have a grasp on how this stuff works, the statements made by polititions and developers turn out to be just smoke and mirrors or the economy throws a wrench in the spokes. Like Grover stated above, I like the chances of this project, and well, all of the proposals for Clayton right now. It wouldn't surprise me if they recieved an extention to the deadline.
I want to get this clear in my head, so correct me if I'm wrong: The plans for Trianon's condo tower were announced, land was cleared, condos were sold. But construction was never started? Is this project on hold until the economy picks up?
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I believe that the land clearance predated the Trianon plan. Of course I could be wrong.
The land has been empty for decades-- it is infamously known as the "Clayton Hole." I really hope this gets built-- the vancant land really separates downtown Clayton from the dense neighborhood to the east.
Moorlander wrote:Your guess is as good as mine gin. Just when I think I have a grasp on how this stuff works, the statements made by polititions and developers turn out to be just smoke and mirrors or the economy throws a wrench in the spokes. Like Grover stated above, I like the chances of this project, and well, all of the proposals for Clayton right now. It wouldn't surprise me if they recieved an extention to the deadline.
from the Clayton ARB minutes 3.16.09
A. Request for Extension – Mixed Use Project
7454 Forsyth Boulevard (Trianon Project)
Site Plan Approval Extension
Consideration of a request by Orchard Development Group for a one (1) year extension of the site plan approval for a 2-building mixed-use development consisting of 350 residential units (175 of which would be rented apartments) and 33,500 square feet of retail use. Total square footage of the project is 760,000 square feet. The project also provides 559 on-site parking spaces. The Plan Commission approved this site plan on March 17, 2008.
Architectural Review Extension
Consideration of a request by Orchard Development Group for a one (1) year extension of the architectural review portion of the approval for the Trianon mixed-use development project. The Architectural Review Board approved the architectural aspects of this project on March 17, 2008.
Engineering News Record had a good story on stalled developments because of financing issues. You could probably blame every single project in the Clayton area on this. This time its tough to cry foul on the developer. Throw in MO state legislators and we might as well write off 2009 for the entire region.
http://enr.ecnext.com/coms2/article_bmf ... sStallDe-1
To Todd Harris, trouble at his local bank is a sign of thin times for his building contracting company, J.C. Harris & Sons, which is based in Elgin, Ill., not far from Chicago. Harris keeps an account at Amcore Bank, a mid-sized regional bank, and has even built its branch buildings. But like banks around the world, Amcore reported a loss for 2008: $97.5 million. William McManaman, Amcore’s CEO, told investors that in the last quarter of 2008, builders and developers accounted for the majority of the bank’s new bad loans. So for now, Amcore, like other banks, is about as likely to make new loans for non-owner-occupied building developments as Bernie Madoff is to receive birthday cards from his former clients.
http://enr.ecnext.com/coms2/article_bmf ... sStallDe-1
To Todd Harris, trouble at his local bank is a sign of thin times for his building contracting company, J.C. Harris & Sons, which is based in Elgin, Ill., not far from Chicago. Harris keeps an account at Amcore Bank, a mid-sized regional bank, and has even built its branch buildings. But like banks around the world, Amcore reported a loss for 2008: $97.5 million. William McManaman, Amcore’s CEO, told investors that in the last quarter of 2008, builders and developers accounted for the majority of the bank’s new bad loans. So for now, Amcore, like other banks, is about as likely to make new loans for non-owner-occupied building developments as Bernie Madoff is to receive birthday cards from his former clients.
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The Trianon may be caught up in financing issues, but I don't think they've sold enough units to receive financing even in good times. It's still a great site and I think something will be built - better that this is delayed than dead - at least at the moment.
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Makes perfect sense that they're not having to manage lines out the sales office door on a daily basis. After all, in this market, who has cash on hand to sit in escrow? In fact, lots of those that have put their cash in escrow for reservations are (scarily) realizing that their flat bills comparatively outperformed their portfolios by 30%, just for not being down.Grover wrote:The Trianon may be caught up in financing issues, but I don't think they've sold enough units to receive financing even in good times. It's still a great site and I think something will be built - better that this is delayed than dead - at least at the moment.
Add in that banks have not financing, and this sucker's out for at least another year. I believe it will be built, and that it will be a really great development, but I think it can only happen when the broader economic world stops falling apart.
Glad to know Clayton pols recognize this and are working with the developers on extensions.
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Trianon
$150 million
50 Carondelet Plaza
Status: Seeking Financing
Orchard Development Group is continuing sales efforts for its transit-oriented development planned for the intersection of Forsyth Boulevard and Carondelet Avenue, at 50 Carondelet Plaza. The project includes a 26-story high-rise with 140 condos priced between $350,000 for a 1-bedroom unit and $1.5 million for a penthouse. A separate 6-story building will have 175 apartments. The project also calls for 30,000 square feet of retail space. Ellen Reid, vice president of sales and marketing at Orchard Development Group, said condo sales have been strong at the Trianon — more than half of the units have been sold — but a ground-breaking date won’t be set until financing for the project is secured. “We’re full speed ahead, but it continues to be a challenge to get financing,” she said. “We’re poised to start construction anytime, dependent on the financing.”
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... tml?page=2
$150 million
50 Carondelet Plaza
Status: Seeking Financing
Orchard Development Group is continuing sales efforts for its transit-oriented development planned for the intersection of Forsyth Boulevard and Carondelet Avenue, at 50 Carondelet Plaza. The project includes a 26-story high-rise with 140 condos priced between $350,000 for a 1-bedroom unit and $1.5 million for a penthouse. A separate 6-story building will have 175 apartments. The project also calls for 30,000 square feet of retail space. Ellen Reid, vice president of sales and marketing at Orchard Development Group, said condo sales have been strong at the Trianon — more than half of the units have been sold — but a ground-breaking date won’t be set until financing for the project is secured. “We’re full speed ahead, but it continues to be a challenge to get financing,” she said. “We’re poised to start construction anytime, dependent on the financing.”
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... tml?page=2
So does anyone know if they're still "Trian" to build this thing? That empty lot is begging for development.
I still dont understand that location for "high end" condos. Half the building will be overlooking a parkway (forestpark parkway)
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Zink,
Why do you think that?
I think there are few locations in this region better suited for high end condos. Located right next to the Ritz Carlton, and just east of two of the most expensive condo buildings in the region in the Cresent and Plaza in Clayton along with views of forest park, cwe, and downtown to the east and clayton to the west these should be selling. I blame the economy and flooded Clayton new construction condo market on this one.
This site also has excellent access to metrolink as well as FPP, 40/64, and 170.
Why do you think that?
I think there are few locations in this region better suited for high end condos. Located right next to the Ritz Carlton, and just east of two of the most expensive condo buildings in the region in the Cresent and Plaza in Clayton along with views of forest park, cwe, and downtown to the east and clayton to the west these should be selling. I blame the economy and flooded Clayton new construction condo market on this one.
This site also has excellent access to metrolink as well as FPP, 40/64, and 170.
The best spot I can think of for a high end condo is either at Lindell & Kingshighway overlooking Forest Park or Ballpark Village condo overlooking Busch Stadium and lower roof top pool/bar. However, would rate this at number three. Probably top five when a few others chime in on better spots.
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Looks like this one almost got started
Trianon
$150 million
50 Carondelet Plaza
A transit-oriented development near the Forsyth Boulevard MetroLink station is officially on hold, according to the project’s developers, Orchard Development Group.
The Trianon project, a high-rise condominium building at Forsyth and Carondelet Avenue, won’t move forward until the credit markets improve, said Ellen Reid, vice president of sales and marketing at Orchard. Plans call for a 26-story high-rise with 140 condos, a six-story building with 175 apartments and 30,000 square feet of retail space. The condos would range from $350,000 for a 1-bedroom unit to $1.5 million for a penthouse.
Despite strong pre-construction sales — Reid said nearly half the units had been presold at this time last year — the Trianon development was not slated to break ground until financing was finalized.
“Some people have decided to wait and see; some people have moved on to other projects,” she said. “We would like to do it, but until the capital markets move, it is on pause.”
Reid said sales were robust at another Clayton development, the Demun Pointe condos at Clayton Road and Seminary Place. Prices range from $300,000 to $750,000. Reid is working on that development in her role as principal at Reid Case Group.
“We’re finding generally that buyers are looking for built-out inventory; they’re looking for a stabilized building,” she said.
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... tml?page=1
Read more: Minimal movement on Clayton’s stalled developments - St. Louis Business Journal
Trianon
$150 million
50 Carondelet Plaza
A transit-oriented development near the Forsyth Boulevard MetroLink station is officially on hold, according to the project’s developers, Orchard Development Group.
The Trianon project, a high-rise condominium building at Forsyth and Carondelet Avenue, won’t move forward until the credit markets improve, said Ellen Reid, vice president of sales and marketing at Orchard. Plans call for a 26-story high-rise with 140 condos, a six-story building with 175 apartments and 30,000 square feet of retail space. The condos would range from $350,000 for a 1-bedroom unit to $1.5 million for a penthouse.
Despite strong pre-construction sales — Reid said nearly half the units had been presold at this time last year — the Trianon development was not slated to break ground until financing was finalized.
“Some people have decided to wait and see; some people have moved on to other projects,” she said. “We would like to do it, but until the capital markets move, it is on pause.”
Reid said sales were robust at another Clayton development, the Demun Pointe condos at Clayton Road and Seminary Place. Prices range from $300,000 to $750,000. Reid is working on that development in her role as principal at Reid Case Group.
“We’re finding generally that buyers are looking for built-out inventory; they’re looking for a stabilized building,” she said.
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... tml?page=1
Read more: Minimal movement on Clayton’s stalled developments - St. Louis Business Journal
- 11K
I figured it wasn't quite dead yet, their sales office is still there - though I haven't seen it open for a few months.
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High-rise luxury residential in this economy? Yeah, wait and hold.
I'm glad they're still planning on the building they presented rather than replacing it with a 5-story nothing.
I'm glad they're still planning on the building they presented rather than replacing it with a 5-story nothing.
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Any news on the Trianon? It's website is still running and being updated.
How/when was the website updated? My understanding was that the project is 100% dead.
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It was updated 4 weeks ago. Pricing was updated. I guess it might not..wabash wrote:How/when was the website updated? My understanding was that the project is 100% dead.
Cool...its being marketed as TOD also. Maybe a project that was formally a victim of the market is being revived.
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I would love to get more information on this. It was never 'declared dead'. I think the economy is back to levels where a development like this could get underway. *FINGERS CROSSED*goat314 wrote:Cool...its being marketed as TOD also. Maybe a project that was formally a victim of the market is being revived.