urbanSTL

For a car it is not wide. 

Yes Tower Grove Ave is not necessary at all. It is essentially a shortcut through the park and people drive like it. The road is very wide through the park and at night it is very hard to see pedestrians or bikers trying to cross if the cars stop at all. I've nearly been hit several times.

Is it more convenient to drive directly through the park instead of sitting in your comfortable car for a few more minutes to drive around? Sure but we only have a few large parks and we don't need to sacrifice park space for driving convenience. The roads should come into the park and have drop off points so people can load/unload and maybe have some handicap parking but not go through the park entirely. Spaces can be opened for the special events the park hosts.

Having lived by the park and used it almost daily for years, mostly as a pedestrian, I think the park roads function really well as is. The speed bumps, curves, islands, and width keep the traffic to a reasonable speed (you can't prevent the random crazy) and it provides access and parking for the various uses of the park without being intrusive. Say you have a family reunion or kids birthday party at the Chinese Pavilion, so everyone is parking on Arsenal or Magnolia and your are dragging all of the supplies a 0.1 to 0.25 mile to the pavilion?  Closing all the roads is a solution in search of a problem.

Northeast Drive and Southeast Drive are pretty much closed permanently already, which I think accomplishes much of the goal here.  These roads are used mostly at bike and ped paths and work great.  

Please mark me down for closing roads in TGP. I don’t care about your commute or parking or some other bs motorist concern.

Grand and Kingshighway provide plenty of opportunities for reckless, high speed driving. Keep it out of the park.

As for the comment that “Arsenal has lots of stop signs” - yes it does. That’s because it’s in a walkable, urban place. It’s ok if you don’t like that. There’s a veritable cornucopia of suburbs you can choose to live in.

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

May 05, 2023

Please mark me down for closing roads in TGP. I don’t care about your commute or parking or some other bs motorist concern.

Grand and Kingshighway provide plenty of opportunities for reckless, high speed driving. Keep it out of the park.

As for the comment that “Arsenal has lots of stop signs” - yes it does. That’s because it’s in a walkable, urban place. It’s ok if you don’t like that. There’s a veritable cornucopia of suburbs you can choose to live in.

Agreed. Cars are not needed in TGP or any for that matter.  Forest Park should have a trolley to get people around.  

For those who think cars don't belong in parks, I guess we just have to agree to disagree. Events that attract hundreds and thousands like the food truck Fridays, TG Pride, and Farmer's Markets might see fewer attendees due to having to park several blocks away and then having to walk quite a bit through the park. Not ideal for someone with disabilities. When I went to Pride last year, it took about 15 minutes to walk from my car to the festival area. If I brought my friend with cerebral palsy, she would never have made it.

But you're right. Maybe I should just move to Festus just so y'all can keep complaining about city population losses. All my friends moved out of the city, so I guess I should join the club.

I swear some of the people on this board make me want to stop caring about discourse in urban renewal. Peace out for good

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Conversely they might see more attendees due to fewer cars diminishing the experience. If the concern is for people with disabilities this can easily be accommodated by converting some areas for accessible parking, this would be much a much better and more targeted solution than running full streets through the parks.

This talk of banning cars in parks strikes me as rather elitist. It's like saying only young, able-bodied people with no small children are welcome. No more large group gatherings that require bringing lots of food, drink, and games (but don't worry; there might be some over-priced but oh-so-trendy food trucks you can patronize).

Edit - by group gatherings I'm referring to families and friends

framer wrote: ↑

May 06, 2023

This talk of banning cars in parks strikes me as rather elitist. It's like saying only young, able-bodied people with no small children are welcome. No more large group gatherings that require bringing lots of food, drink, and games (but don't worry; there might be some over-priced but oh-so-trendy food trucks you can patronize).

Edit - by group gatherings I'm referring to families and friends

I find it rather elitest to allow so many cars, safety dangers to children and adults alike, disturbing the peacefulness of the park for convenience of those who can afford to buy metal boxes to drive themselves around

In the US it just isn't really possible to escape cars in an urban setting outside of parks. Forest Park has a few lovely car free areas and it's jarring when you wander back to a street that allows cars. They are noisy, ugly, and smelly. 

Lafayette Park is another example. Despite its small size, it feels like an escape from the auto centric world. People just park at the edges and walk in. It should also be noted that it's about as wide as Tower Grove is tall. 

Being so short and long, visitors to TGP are never far from a road no matter where they are in the park. I don't see a compelling reason to keep roadways open within the park outside of Tower Grove Ave. For large gatherings, perhaps add a few dropoff/loading areas on the peripheries of the park.

Did something happen? Or is this just /r/***** leaking? I live practically on the park, use it multiple times a week; and neither me nor my neighbors want the park roads closed. More than half are already closed. The ones that are open provide access to the multitude of events that happen there.

The park is great as is.

^ I also live just off of the park and don't mind the car access either... having said that, its really nice walking your kids around knowing the roads are closed...

If I were changing anything, Center Cross needs some serious work. We need some raised crosswalk-speed humps on the edges of the round about going east and west. And the cross-walks at Northwest and Southwest need some louder calming measures. I've seen a few pedestrians almost hit at both of those intersections. Not to mention, I always see people speeding around the edge of the cars stopped at both and running the stop sign and light... and heck, a month ago a kid was hit on a scooter just south of the northwest crossing while on the crosswalk. 

The N/S access is the issue, and the pedestrian experience crossing Center Cross is much less than ideal. 

quincunx wrote: ↑

May 02, 2023

$750k building permit application submitted for basketball courts

Issued last week

Does he have an STL connection?

Personally, I would love to see the Voltron statue there

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Jul 24, 2023

Does he have an STL connection?

Personally, I would love to see the Voltron statue there

Does Christopher Columbus have an STL connection?

(I know your point. it should be someone with an STL connection but I still had to say it)

My wife was almost run over a couple weeks ago crossing Tower Grove. It was after work. We were enjoying our neighborhood park which we walked to as the park invites one to do.

Tower Grove should be closed through the park between 7:30 and 9:30 and 4:30 and 6:30 at minimum.

And while we’re at it get rid of those awful slip lanes at the Magnolia and Arsenal intersections.

I run regularly in the Park in the morning (around 7-8am, already daylight) and I've been almost run over 4-5 times by people who are unable to understand the meaning of the signs that they STOP in white font on a read background. Once a car actually touched me while I was on the crosswalk and the driver proceeded to yell at me.

Yeah, just close it. Thoroughfares don’t belong inside parks especially when there are massive stroads on either side of it.

Unfortunately it'll take 2-3 people getting hit before anything is done.

I had  good hopes when they had regular road closures of the Tower Grove Ave segment in the park during the pandemic. Had never seen so many people in the Park outside of events. Unfortunately they seem to have abandoned this. There are literally two major N/S thoroughfares near TGAve (Grand and Kingshighway), I really doubt there is a good traffic argument to keep it open.