I've been a proponent of Washington Avenue becoming pedestrian only for long stretches for a long time, it's nice to see this finally getting talked about.
Yes to Wash Ave Pedway but also …
Eads Bridge Pier! Eads Bridge Pier! Eads Bridge Pier!
Eads Bridge Pier! Eads Bridge Pier! Eads Bridge Pier!
And most of these are dead zones for pedestrians while there's life just a block or two over. The best parts of Manchester (in the Grove, Maplewood, and Webster) are one lane each way, same with Delmar in the Loop, Grand on the South Grand strip and by the theaters. If we want to activate streets and attract patrons we need to first put the roads through a lane diet.chris fuller wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2024"it's a not a pleasant place to be a pedestrian"
Nor is Tucker sections of Olive, Chouteau and..........
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My point is Brickline Greenway will add a cycling track, pedestrian side path, trees to Market stretch. It already has by CITY park. I have been disappointed to not see significant lane reduction. The Market rendering from Spring to CITY Park only takes it down to 5, which has been a disappointing result of an otherwise great project. Which is why I’d also like retail down market to accompany the greenway and gateway mall. Maybe another lane of traffic could be taken away for patio usage if there were restaurants and bars along it._nomad_ wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2024Market will never be activated until it undergoes a major road diet, it's 5-6 driving lanes, 6-8 including parking, it's a not a pleasant place to be a pedestrian.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2024Yes, when I say “Market”, I am really talking about Chestnut and Market along Gateway Mall. The street activation is really poor along that corridor. It will always have the most potential to me though for being a “grand avenue” a la Michigan Ave, 5th, Rodeo on a smaller scale. From CITY park to Arch, it has some elements for such a draw that just can’t be replicated. There would need to be significant repurpose work done though.verdantruins wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2024The gateway mall master plan calls for fields and courts near the west end (between 15th and 18th) as amenities for nearby residential. Still think thats the right idea for that section with some thoughtful sculpture and landcaping.
But, this would also be feasible on the near north riverfront. Nix or tunnelize Commercial and backfill the floodwall such that you can walk right to to the top of it (with a nice fence of course).
No matter what you do, Market is not going to be a retail boulevard, and so the main brickline connection will just be to park space. I think the correct alignment is down a fully pedestrianized Chestnut, but the Market alignment is locked in. I would still say pedestrianize Chestnut for a few reasons: 1)It adds a lot more ped and bike only space to the brickline connection 2)crossing streets all the way from 20th to arch would be much safer at ped only signals, and 3)Unlike Market -Chestnut has activatable ground floor potential that would benefit it greatly by pedestrianizing the space between it and the greenspaces of the mall(think of how it would connect the broad plazas of att and swb for instance)
Obviously Wash Ave is the most filled out commercial street. My idealized world would be that Wash Ave and N/S street retail would be supported by a strong resident and worker population downtown, and Gateway Mall could be a big tourist draw, green space, festival grounds, patio bars and restaurants, etc.
I would like to see some street in the metro to go pedestrian mall. Delmar Loop would pronably be the best candidate for that currently. Euclid/Maryland Plaza probably second. Get a streetcar running down Wash Ave and Broadway and we can talk Wash Ave too
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^Are you thinking pedestrianize the thing entirely? A road diet is a no-brainer. No real need for more than one lane each way on the bridge. But it could be an interesting linear park if you light it and make the surface more pleasant and get some amenities out on it. The views are great.
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Keep the north 1/2 as a narrow, bi-directional, roadway. Take the south 1/2 as a cycle track and pedestrian area. It could be done cheap, you just need some concrete barriers and road paint. Maybe throw in some potted trees, sculptures, and interpretive signage.
Once the Brickline is finished + East side connections to the MCT Schoolhouse Trail, the Levee Trail, and the Metrobikelink trail and the Eads becomes a bike highway
Once the Brickline is finished + East side connections to the MCT Schoolhouse Trail, the Levee Trail, and the Metrobikelink trail and the Eads becomes a bike highway
I think close the whole thing. Recreate the St. Louis sign facing Washington Avenue. Hundreds of benches and small trees. Boulevard lighting. A few simple food kiosk.
Like this AI generated corridor but actually on the surface of the bridge.
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Add a Paris style dinning cruises to the riverfront and suddenly a night on the Mississippi becomes a must visit romantic destination.
The Eads Bridge view of Downtown would become the regions #1 Instagram shot.
Like this AI generated corridor but actually on the surface of the bridge.
Add a Paris style dinning cruises to the riverfront and suddenly a night on the Mississippi becomes a must visit romantic destination.
The Eads Bridge view of Downtown would become the regions #1 Instagram shot.
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This wasn't Eads Bridge -- it was the MacArthur Bridge -- but I'd love to see something like this hanging over a new vision for Eads.
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Love the idea of a pedestrianized Eads. The platforms that cover the rail right at the riverfront at the north and south end of the arch grounds nearly come up to bridge height at Eads and Poplar. Makes me think some kind of pedestrian loop could be created with the East riverfront whenever Poplar is redone.
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Eads Pier would be a fantastic use eventually. Would need a more active east riverfront to support it first though.
If the Levee trail is connected to the Eads it would make a nice bike loop with the McKinley Bridge
If the Levee trail is connected to the Eads it would make a nice bike loop with the McKinley Bridge
Now that this is confirmed, I expect all you chicken littles to do the opposite of whatever that pitiful discourse was earlier this week. Overflow with excitement and optimism.
AT&T moves workers to downtown St. Louis from Earth City
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/bus ... f9ed4.html
AT&T moves workers to downtown St. Louis from Earth City
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/bus ... f9ed4.html
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A combination of what everyone is saying is my vision. Make the surface of the bridge essentially a plaza with trees, benches, stands for food and drink vendors. Add a cycling track to connect the city bike trails to metro east. Add a cool entrance sign like the photo above from Rock Chalk.addxb2 wrote: ↑Oct 17, 2024I think close the whole thing. Recreate the St. Louis sign facing Washington Avenue. Hundreds of benches and small trees. Boulevard lighting. A few simple food kiosk.
Like this AI generated corridor but actually on the surface of the bridge.
Add a Paris style dinning cruises to the riverfront and suddenly a night on the Mississippi becomes a must visit romantic destination.
The Eads Bridge view of Downtown would become the regions #1 Instagram shot.
I think it would be an attraction on its own if done this way. It comes right off the Arch grounds, convention center, and the last bit of our old riverfront. And also leads to the only place on the metro east side of the riverfront there is anything - there’s at least a casino and park. The views alone would draw tourists. The Big 4 bridge in less healthy downtown Louisville with a lot less to look at has been a huge draw for them. The new Eads could propel some more development on the east side and draw more people from convention and arch crowds over to the landing. Would be much more useful and productive than the unpleasant 4 lane unused wide road it is now. It would do so much for our riverfront and downtown cohesion, and you can do it without tons of money.
The beautiful lamp posts and railing are already there ready for the transformation!
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How realistic would it be for St. Clair County to connect their MetroBikeLink system to the East Riverfront MetroLink station and Eads Bridge?
https://scctd.org/metrobikelink/
I think you could get some actual development on the east riverfront near Eads Bridge if you had connectivity to it in both states. Yes, you want people in Missouri to venture over there, but I think it makes sense that you get people from Illinois to venture over there, too. Currently, outside of the casino, nobody is venturing over there from either state.
Edit: Another question: If Eads Bridge were made into a pedestrian bridge, how hard would it be to give MetroLink users access to the deck without making them do some inconvenient walk?
https://scctd.org/metrobikelink/
I think you could get some actual development on the east riverfront near Eads Bridge if you had connectivity to it in both states. Yes, you want people in Missouri to venture over there, but I think it makes sense that you get people from Illinois to venture over there, too. Currently, outside of the casino, nobody is venturing over there from either state.
Edit: Another question: If Eads Bridge were made into a pedestrian bridge, how hard would it be to give MetroLink users access to the deck without making them do some inconvenient walk?
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RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Oct 17, 2024How realistic would it be for St. Clair County to connect their MetroBikeLink system to the East Riverfront MetroLink station and Eads Bridge?
https://scctd.org/metrobikelink/
I think you could get some actual development on the east riverfront near Eads Bridge if you had connectivity to it in both states. Yes, you want people in Missouri to venture over there, but I think it makes sense that you get people from Illinois to venture over there, too. Currently, outside of the casino, nobody is venturing over there from either state.
Edit: Another question: If Eads Bridge were made into a pedestrian bridge, how hard would it be to give MetroLink users access to the deck without making them do some inconvenient walk?
Imagine the amount of cyclists that would add to the vibrancy if the metro east bike network was connected to the arch ground trails + the improving downtown bike network and coming Brickine Greenway. We’d be one of the more green cities in the U.S. just with that network alone.
In the Arch design competition from 2010, there were proposals that seamlessly connected Eads Bridge to the Arch trails. So the concepts have been rendered
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There are no current plans of extending Metrobikelink further west than the Fairview Heights Station that I have found, but it seems like the natural extension of the project vision. Plus the ROW would be much easier to build upon as it's primarily flat floodplain instead of the hillier areas east of Fairview Station.
The East Riverfront station aleady has deck access from the stair tower, not sure how easy it would be on the Missouri side but if the Arch grounds are connected like people have proposed it wouldn't be difficult to reach.RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Oct 17, 2024How realistic would it be for St. Clair County to connect their MetroBikeLink system to the East Riverfront MetroLink station and Eads Bridge?
https://scctd.org/metrobikelink/
I think you could get some actual development on the east riverfront near Eads Bridge if you had connectivity to it in both states. Yes, you want people in Missouri to venture over there, but I think it makes sense that you get people from Illinois to venture over there, too. Currently, outside of the casino, nobody is venturing over there from either state.
Edit: Another question: If Eads Bridge were made into a pedestrian bridge, how hard would it be to give MetroLink users access to the deck without making them do some inconvenient walk?
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Bringing all of the recent discussion from this thread into one…
A new disc golf park on the riverfront in the landing next to Eads Katherine Burg Garden. This little area has become one of my favorite to hang out. Brew Tulum and Cobblestone right there for a coffee or snack and sit out in this area and watch the boats and trains. Now I guess I should bring my frisbee
A new disc golf park on the riverfront in the landing next to Eads Katherine Burg Garden. This little area has become one of my favorite to hang out. Brew Tulum and Cobblestone right there for a coffee or snack and sit out in this area and watch the boats and trains. Now I guess I should bring my frisbee
Yes to road diets addxb2 posted but have a tough time recalling many US ped only streets that have seem to work well or have the remotely amount of foot traffic to make them work.
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I do think everyone agrees that St Louis, especially downtown, has the auto capacity of an era past gone and road diets, more dedicated bike paths, wider sidewalks and more trees is the vision that the city should be pursing going forward. Maybe leave some street right of ways alone that are part of future N-S or a dedicated bus lanes where frequency can be increased (BRT Light) or self driving robotaxi's
I think I like this idea better than full shutdown to cars. If it would go to pedestrian only then the only way to cross the river by car would be highway, which I don’t love. But eads definitely should only be one lane each way. No need for 2.
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^The MLK can put you on the highway, but it's not strictly required. You can also take it directly to MLK Drive in East St. Louis. So it pretty much parallels the Eads, just a few blocks north or east, depending on where you're looking. It also has a ramp that ties into that Piggott/Tudor weirdness that the PSB connects to, about where the MacArthur used to end on that side.
I thought MLK only came to/from 55 on the IL side. Which basically means if you close eads to traffic there is no way to cross from the east side riverfront to downtown riverfront by vehicle without going way out of the way and a lot of backtracking. Even mlk drive is pretty far from the river. To me there still needs to be some kind of easy connection by car between the two if you want them to be more connected. Which is why I’d cut it to one lane each way.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Oct 19, 2024^The MLK can put you on the highway, but it's not strictly required. You can also take it directly to MLK Drive in East St. Louis. So it pretty much parallels the Eads, just a few blocks north or east, depending on where you're looking. It also has a ramp that ties into that Piggott/Tudor weirdness that the PSB connects to, about where the MacArthur used to end on that side.