urbanSTL

^That discrepancy seemed odd to me as well. My only guess is that they are using a number from around the time of the 2010 census, but which was generated from their own survey/estimates. Or perhaps they adjusted the census number to reflect what they thought was undercounting .

I also see the Partnership says there are 750 units planned for downtown... not sure if that includes the Alverne, which is under construction, but with those numbers perhaps we'll hear publicly about another project or two before long. I've got about 540 tracked from Arcade-Wright, Chemical, 1800 Pine and Intrada Lofts.... Alverne would put the number up to around 625. Hopefully all will move forward.... I saw 1800 Pine still looks like its on track but I haven't heard anything about Intrada lately.

I have no doubt downtown is safe i'm there 5-6 times a week so i know everything thats happening down there.
That being said i love what we're doing here sometime's i feel like we lose momentum with all the negative feed.
When i mention crime i should clarify myself by saying the City itself is seeing a shooting or 2 at least everyday.
Downtown come a long way i really hope their be some big announces coming soon i'm ready to see some cranes erected in our downtown.. Maybe its wishful thinking for now.
Blah Memphis isn't a fun city i find it to be rather boring.
So is Saint.Louis a rust belt city or no just like clarification from locals on here? I keep hearing Detroit Cleveland Buffalo & Pittsburgh are the rust belt cities etc.

After looking at that report from the Partnership for Downtown St. Louis, I was a little surprised at how low our office inventory is in comparison to other cities. It's interesting that Minneapolis' CBD has more office space than Dallas'. Denver's CBD is a real powerhouse.

^ Sorry, still not sold on Pittsburgh as fully recovered. There is not possible way in hell that Pittsburgh is recovered and St. Louis, Chicago, and Cincinnati aren't. I know the Burgh has been getting a lot of good press lately, but I've been there and its really not doing anything that St. Louis isn't. It also has a crapload of sh*tty little post industrial towns just outside of town and some parts give off this creepy Appalachian vibe.

I grew up in the heart of the rust belt and I would NOT call STL a rust belt city at all. Sure it has aspects of it, which in my opinion make it great. A solid blue collar work force BUT it has a very healthy base of corporate jobs. A great mix and shows why our economy didn't collapse as much as pure rust belt or pure white collar towns.

I wonder what their criteria for "recovered" is. The question of weather St. Louis is truly rust belt is that one has to note it is not in the core region of it which seems to be where the economic issues were hardest hit which was the eastern great lakes area. Another thing is the industrial sector of the area here was unlike some other rust belt areas in not being tied to a particular sector.

Am I alone in thinking that the rust belt aspects of the St. Louis metro area outside of the city limits seem to be more noticeable in the metro east communities than west of St. Louis City? It would make sense it occurring that way due to transportation infrastructure and closer proximity to coal mining areas.

Interesting is they only showed mining areas as it relates to coal and not the iron or lead areas which also are tied to the rust belt of which the lead belt area south of St. Louis is tied into.

The map does highlight one issue the region does face that makes me wonder if many have thought about. Mainly how there are some unique issues in the region relating to how much of an outlier it is relative to the surrounding area and how it creates unique situations and challenges.

goat314 wrote:^ Sorry, still not sold on Pittsburgh as fully recovered. There is not possible way in hell that Pittsburgh is recovered and St. Louis, Chicago, and Cincinnati aren't.

I agree we need more time to see how all these cities have really fared in recent years -- by one measurement, census estimates, Cincy and Pittsburgh are thought to have held steady with us just a slight loss... that's not much difference and who knows how actual numbers will turn out in next census. And all three will still be neat cities in 2020, and I suspect better ones than in 2010.

I just wish we had the same momentum on the jobs front for downtown.... our lack of commitment by the corporate community to downtown is a huge challenge for us.

Not only North Saint.Louis needs jobs but Downtown needs to be more of a major focus when it comes to all job relocations ranging from small business to mega giants like google amazon & more.. I know they are trying to focus on all of the city however Downtown is the face of the city & region.
Till we get more jobs more positive energy better stabilization lower crime rates better schools we'll continue to be ranked as unhappy fattest poorest & every negative name you can call us.
Not saying make Saint.Louis perfect but make it something we the residents can be proud of..

Downtown CBD; 64,000 employees

“It’s a big city, we’re going to have problems,” he said, adding that conditions have “dramatically improved.” Kennedy said a lot of problems have stemmed from kids and city officials have addressed many of the issues.

What did these kids do? Spill their milk and color outside the lines on their homework?

I know what he's saying, but that's a strange way to say it!

Source on the edge says ESRI, EWG, CoStar and MSDIS (MSDIS is the Missouri Spatial Data Information Service at Mizzou)

I work with this data on a regular basis. ESRI and CoStar would not provide the accuracy you would want if your specific question was "How many people are working in Downtown?"

They can give you an idea, but it is pretty rough. I am not aware of anyone that has done a good census of Downtown employment in over a decade. That would include calling, "door-to-door" surveys, etc. I think people/organizations would be afraid of paying what it takes to get accurate numbers and then getting the bad news. Downtown St. Louis used to do an employment census on a pretty regular basis.

Also I question counting Wells-Fargo, Ameren, and Purina as part of Downtown is questionable or should at least be qualified. Wells-Fargo is specifically outside of defined boundaries of Downtown, but almost always included. Ameren and Purina? Do these employees contribute to the activity Downtown? I used to work on the Purina campus, and we would go out to eat a lot and always drove to Soulard or South Grand.

I would guess it is higher than 65,000, but lower than the oft cited 85,000, but how much is south of 40 and west of Jefferson. Also how much is office/professional vs. retail restaurant? I'd love to see an actual census done. We might not want to know, but it could open some eyes, and get some people to focus.

^ I had heard the Partnership was going to undertake a new study with the new topper in place. I hope they do and, like they did with the new annual report. mention downtown proper and the secondary, broader area. In comparison, I believe Pittsburgh's downtown org says they have over 110K "salaried" workers in their broader downtown area.

Whatever the true number, we definitely need a lot more density in the core CBD, particularly east of Tucker and north of Market where there is the most potential to grow a retail hub; unfortunately, it seems like the positive action has been mostly south of Market, with several significant moves away from the core (Anders. HOK and Lacelde Gas come to mind as jumping over Market) and BPV presumably taking some business away from downtown restaurants/bars.

roger wyoming II wrote:^^ Is that number from the Partnership? 64,000 is a pretty brutal number, and a good percentage of those are on the downtown edge like Wells-Fargo, Ameren and Purina.

I was obviously facetious with my previous post from a few days ago, but now that I have the time to write something serious, I cannot get this number out of my head. I'd love to know the source. If it's really 64,000, I agree, that is absolutely brutal. For years, The Downtown Partnership gleefully pointed out that there were 90,000 workers downtown, and of course, those numbers included Downtown West and other adjacent employment centers as well. I know St. Louis has taken hits through M&As like May Company, TWA, and Southwestern Bell, but I'd love to see our civic leaders take a long, hard look in the mirror and acknowledge just how bad this job exodus from downtown has become.

I agree with MattonArsenal's take, as the number may be greater than 64,000 but still probably lower than 85,000. At any rate, it would be refreshing to see some honesty about the state of downtown. Yes, all of the new residents and restaurants are nice, and there are more things to look forward to once the arch grounds renovation is complete and major projects like the Arcade and Chemical buildings come along in the next few years. However, the employment base has taken big hits, what's left is scattered across a relatively wide area, and the loss of Macy's underscores the need for even the most basic retail options. I still feel positive about downtown long-term, but I cannot say the same for our so-called leadership in this community.

The first listed source on that map is ESRI. I ran an ESRI report for Downtown and Downtown West and extended it west to Beaumont to include Wells Fargo as that map seems to show. It came up with 53,500 employees.

Here is a rough breakdown by sector (just the major ones)...
Manufacturing 2,000
Utility 258
Transportation 1,150
Communication 7,500
Wholesale Trade 1,500
Retail Trade 3,700 (incl. 2,500 in restaurants)
Finance, Ins, Real Estate 2,800
Hotels 2,300
Amusement 1,350
Legal Services 5,900
Education 1,100
Other services 9,200

If you are curious, here is a link to its methodology...
http://www.esri.com/~/media/Files/Pdfs/ ... ations.pdf

I don't think this overall number is accurate. But until someone does a real census of Downtown employment who knows?

5k at Wells. How many at Purina?

Ameren is a big one south of 40/64, but also considered Downtown.