urbanSTL

Obviously, you do not want street fights, shootings, car racing and some of the things that have plagued Wash. Ave. However, loud crowds, some yelling, some cars peeling out, are to be expected around there. I would not have an issue with a midnight to 1:30 closing time. It would be nice to have a mix of everything, but in Downtown's case, having an entertainment district separate from the "neighborhood" might be best, since people pay good money to live down there in 'luxury lofts'.

Seems like North Broadway or Chouteaus Landing would be an ideal area for raunchy clubs and bars. Generally just a red light district.

It needs a new bar/restaurant concept to open that generates some buzz. It would also instill some confidence for other operators to open. A toned down version of the Wheelhouse (not as big, not as douchy) would be a good fit.

The bars/restaurants still operating are all mostly pretty solid. Flamingo, Hair of the Dog, Lucas Park, Rosalitas, Hiro, Flannery's, Over/Under are all still great places for a drink and a bite to eat. A new popular place nearby would help their business.


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Are Cities Too Complicated?
http://www.citylab.com/tech/2016/09/are ... ed/496556/

The loitering and cruising has been better this summer. Still looking for police to continue enforcing these infractions though. Motorcycles are a tough one.


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Not good: http://www.kmov.com/story/33044316/atv- ... e-downtown

^Yeah, apparently that's a new trend nationwide. They hit Times Square last weekend.

I've seen them in shaw and the CWE

Seems to me as though someone "counted coup" there. Could this be making a point?

These idiots don't respect police post Michael Brown in 2014. There has clearly been a Ferguson Effect that for whatever reason people want to deny. The current trend in Chicago is 4,300 people shot and 700 homicides.. Glad we don't have those numbers here, but perhaps we do, proportionally.. sad.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-nationw ... 1464045462

So sad that our downtown has to be a lawless playground for some. I wonder why police stay in the industry. I'd quit.

arch city wrote:

goat314 wrote:

arch city wrote: Not picking a fight......I promise. But what's dressing "ghetto"?

ghetto = an isolated or segregated group or area

So basically I was implying that we were not dressed as if we came from a segregated group or area. Change our skin tone and we probably would have got served in our Dockers, because we just came from a meeting.

No problem. I just have personal issues when people, in general, assign stereotypes to styles of dress. For example, "He (or she) dresses gay" or "She dresses like a "slut". It sets people up for mistreatment.

Bottom line, to me, is that you all were in there to spend money at their restaurant and should have been treated like every other customer there - unless there was violation of dress code, which apparently wasn't the case. If you all got in, were seated, then there shouldn't have been an issue. Sounds like there should be "testers" who could help determine/measure if a particular restaurant or business is mistreating people based on race or special needs.

I personally would have left because if they treat you badly there's a potential for them to add some "secret sauce" to your food too.

Again, I wasn't trying to pick a fight.

After about 5-10 minutes of sitting at the bar and being totally ignored with my friend showing a $50 bill in his hand, we walked down the street to a far more integrated bar scene and received top notch service. Honestly we weren't set on going to Flannery's we were just walking down the strip and stop in the first bar we saw.

After about 5-10 minutes of sitting at the bar and being totally ignored with my friend showing a $50 bill in his hand, we walked down the street to a far more integrated bar scene and received top notch service. Honestly we weren't set on going to Flannery's we were just walking down the strip and stop in the first bar we saw.

I HATE to hear stories like this. This is total BS! This was at Dubliner or Flannerys?

jcity wrote:. The current trend in Chicago is 4,300 people shot and 700 homicides..

Chicago has had more murders this year than New York and Los Angeles combined!

The Dubliner had very lackadaisical service at times and I have also had trouble getting served. Considering I am a white male yuppie, I doubt you were ignored due to race. I have also seen plenty of black people at the bar drinking.


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jcity wrote:These idiots don't respect police post Michael Brown in 2014. There has clearly been a Ferguson Effect that for whatever reason people want to deny. The current trend in Chicago is 4,300 people shot and 700 homicides.. Glad we don't have those numbers here, but perhaps we do, proportionally.. sad.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-nationw ... 1464045462

What is the Ferguson Effect? Why has homicide increased in some cities, remained flat in some cities, and decreased in yet other cities? Fact is things are quite complex and very nuanced. We may be at a time where the long significant drop in homicides won't continue at the national level, but for all but a few cities homicide levels are still well below that of a decade ago, let alone the dark times of the early 90s.

Through August, Downtown West had a significant drop in violent and property crime. Downtown had a slight uptick in violent crime and a slight decrease in property crime.

http://www.slmpd.org/crimestats/CRM0013-BY_201608.pdf

Interesting to compare to CWE, which had a rather substantial increase in violent crime, including 4 homicides, and a slight decrease in property crime.

ADDING: looking at historical numbers, looks like Downtown pretty much is on par with past five years or so and Downtown West doing better.

arch city wrote:

debaliviere wrote:Not good: http://www.kmov.com/story/33044316/atv- ... e-downtown

Lolol. Life in the big city.

I'm currently listing the Dubliner and JBucks spaces downtown. Very few will look at the Dubliner space. But lots of interest in the JBucks. Which shows there's interest in downtown but perhaps only certain areas of downtown. The perception from tenants is that WashAve is tired and has crime issues. Whereas south downtown (should we start calling the area south of Market as SODO?) is fresher, safer, has more parking, and easier access to I64. BPV2, Mike Shannons, Union Station, and Komans project will continue to pull the energy south.

Another interesting tidbit, two large popular bars on WashAve have approached me and said that if there's a tenant that likes WashAve but the Dubliner space doesn't fit their needs, please bring them to us and we'll give them our spaces. So more vacancies to come on WashAve.

So WashAve certainly peaked a while back and is having its issues right now. As a loft owner in the Meridian and listing agent of Dubliner, I hope things get better quick.

Cameras, more lighting, and more police is the easy thing to say. But I think new exciting venues is the key to bringing more people to WashAve. MX is great but Porano is the only one-location (not for long) tenant in the project so it's not a regional draw.

KBS