^I think you pretty well nailed it. I have heard rumblings that GM wants to have access to other railroads besides NS because of service issues that have arisen from "precision scheduled railroading."
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^I've heard it said that "precision scheduled railroading" will be the death of railroading. More or less.
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"precision X is killing X" seems like a common refrain across the economy.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Feb 17, 2022^I've heard it said that "precision scheduled railroading" will be the death of railroading. More or less.
Exactly where is this Chesterfield vs Maryland Heights rail yard proposed. Down off Hog Hollow by the Mo American Water/MSD plants?
A rail line runs from there to Wentzville?
A rail line runs from there to Wentzville?
It’s around here. The rail line runs from Union to Hall street (I believe).
My convoluted guess is seems like GM will truck the cars to MH, load them on rail cars. Since the line is an independent short line, (not NS which serves GM) it can connect with any of the Class I railroads and GM can better control outbound shipping.
My convoluted guess is seems like GM will truck the cars to MH, load them on rail cars. Since the line is an independent short line, (not NS which serves GM) it can connect with any of the Class I railroads and GM can better control outbound shipping.
When E Hunter Harrison died, PSR should have died with him.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Feb 17, 2022^I've heard it said that "precision scheduled railroading" will be the death of railroading. More or less.
Maryland Heights apporved as per PD and Biz Journals.
Trains article has site map of the rail auto facility
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... bjections/
MARYLAND HEIGHTS, Mo. — The city council of a St. Louis suburb on Thursday approved construction of a facility for shipping automobiles by rail, despite the decision of its planning commission not to recommend the project and the objections of residents in the community of Maryland Heights and a neighboring city.
The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that Precision Vehicle Holding of Wayne, Mich., wants to rezone 91 acres to allow construction of the facility to ship vehicles by rail and road from the General Motors assembly plant in Wentzville, Mo., about 25 miles away. The facility would include a 3,500-square-foot office building and 9,500-square-foot truck repair shop. The site is served by a short line in the process of being transferred to Jaguar Transport Holdings, which will operate it as the Missouri Eastern Railroad.
The site is on Maryland Heights’ border with Chesterfield, Mo., and sits below an area overlooked by some 388 homes. The planning commission declined to recommend the project because of the potential negative impact on those residents from overnight rail operations. Precision appealed that decision, saying the planning commission exceeded its authority because rail operations are under federal control.
The Chesterfield city council also passed a resolution last week opposing the project, although it has no legal force.
Some 200 residents were on hand at Thursday night’s council meeting, while a Chesterfield neighborhood group hired an attorney to represent it before the council.
Precision’s attorney told the meeting the project would be “no different than a car dealership … just with rail access.”
Trains article has site map of the rail auto facility
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... bjections/
MARYLAND HEIGHTS, Mo. — The city council of a St. Louis suburb on Thursday approved construction of a facility for shipping automobiles by rail, despite the decision of its planning commission not to recommend the project and the objections of residents in the community of Maryland Heights and a neighboring city.
The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that Precision Vehicle Holding of Wayne, Mich., wants to rezone 91 acres to allow construction of the facility to ship vehicles by rail and road from the General Motors assembly plant in Wentzville, Mo., about 25 miles away. The facility would include a 3,500-square-foot office building and 9,500-square-foot truck repair shop. The site is served by a short line in the process of being transferred to Jaguar Transport Holdings, which will operate it as the Missouri Eastern Railroad.
The site is on Maryland Heights’ border with Chesterfield, Mo., and sits below an area overlooked by some 388 homes. The planning commission declined to recommend the project because of the potential negative impact on those residents from overnight rail operations. Precision appealed that decision, saying the planning commission exceeded its authority because rail operations are under federal control.
The Chesterfield city council also passed a resolution last week opposing the project, although it has no legal force.
Some 200 residents were on hand at Thursday night’s council meeting, while a Chesterfield neighborhood group hired an attorney to represent it before the council.
Precision’s attorney told the meeting the project would be “no different than a car dealership … just with rail access.”
Maybe one day these suburbanite leaders will understand that working together means their regions will ultimately be more successful. Not today, though.dweebe wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2022Dear Chesterfield: you want fragmentation? This is what you get,
StlToday - Maryland Heights approves rail project that angered Chesterfield residents, officials
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... c564b.html
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... c564b.html
quincunx wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2022StlToday - Maryland Heights approves rail project that angered Chesterfield residents, officials
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... c564b.html
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^So sorry Chesterfield of Dreams! You know what? This facility will make an awful lot less noise than all the crap off 40 they've built over the last thirty years. So Chesterfield loses . . . and I win! (For correctly describing the thing.) But in all seriousness, I really will be glad to see more traffic on that line.
What railroad owns that line? Looking at a map I’m guessing TRRA?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This line recently changed hands. There's a new owner, Jaguar Transport Holdings. The line will change names from Central Midland Railroad to Missouri Eastern Railroad.tztag wrote: ↑Feb 20, 2022What railroad owns that line? Looking at a map I’m guessing TRRA?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
https://railfan.com/new-railroad-to-tak ... -missouri/
It looks like the line they purchased extends from Union, MO to Maryland Heights at Vigus Rd. They're negotiating with UP for overhead trackage rights to extend 10 miles eastward to connect with TRRA. TRRA runs a local called the West Belt job that provides service from their yard in Madison, IL to this line.
This line was the Rock Island RR. Southern Pacific RR bought the Rock Island, and then subsequently Union Pacific RR bought Southern Pacific in 1996. That's why Jaguar Transport has to negotiate trackage rights with Union Pacific for the 10 mile segment from Vigus in Maryland Heights to what's called Rock Island Junction where this line meets TRRA.
I went to the City of Maryland Heights website to gather more information on this project:
https://www.marylandheights.com/busines ... 0_R179.php
They're planning for 200 truck movements per day. Let's assume that they take five days off for major public holidays. That's 72,000 truck movements per year (360 x 200).
As per Dredger's post above, Precision Holdings' attorney characterized this new facility as being “no different than a car dealership … just with rail access.”
I don't know any car dealerships that have two hundred 18 wheeler truck movements a day.
FTR, I would like to see this project come to fruition. But, let's be honest about the scale and scope of what's being proposed here.
https://www.marylandheights.com/busines ... 0_R179.php
They're planning for 200 truck movements per day. Let's assume that they take five days off for major public holidays. That's 72,000 truck movements per year (360 x 200).
As per Dredger's post above, Precision Holdings' attorney characterized this new facility as being “no different than a car dealership … just with rail access.”
I don't know any car dealerships that have two hundred 18 wheeler truck movements a day.
FTR, I would like to see this project come to fruition. But, let's be honest about the scale and scope of what's being proposed here.
- Excerption from linked file above.
![Screenshot_20220218-181528~2.png (393.71KiB)]()
A couple of additional points on this proposed Precision Vehicles autoloading facility.
• This facility will serve dual purposes. It will load newly built GM products from the Wentzville plant onto autorack rail cars. It will also receive and unload autorack railcars from other facilities. The link (above) I provided to the appeal document states that they're anticipating receiving 335 vehicles and dispatching 335 vehicles per day.
• There's precedent for what GM is doing here. Precision Vehicles built and began operating a new autoloading facility in Ft Wayne, IN in March 2021. A certain percentage of the finished vehicles at GM's Roanoke, IN plant is now trucked to this new facility which has rail access to the CFE, a short line RR. NS previously provided exclusive service to this GM plant.
• This new autoloading facility will transform rail activity on the Missouri Eastern RR. Based on the numbers provided in the link above, this facility could see 25 autorack railcars being delivered and dispatched on a daily basis. Missouri Eastern will also need to construct their own railyard at the site of this new facility.
Point of clarification: Rock Island RR went bankrupt in 1979 and Southern Pacific assumed control of some of the lines including this one. SP did not buy the Rock Island, as I wrote in a previous post.
• This facility will serve dual purposes. It will load newly built GM products from the Wentzville plant onto autorack rail cars. It will also receive and unload autorack railcars from other facilities. The link (above) I provided to the appeal document states that they're anticipating receiving 335 vehicles and dispatching 335 vehicles per day.
• There's precedent for what GM is doing here. Precision Vehicles built and began operating a new autoloading facility in Ft Wayne, IN in March 2021. A certain percentage of the finished vehicles at GM's Roanoke, IN plant is now trucked to this new facility which has rail access to the CFE, a short line RR. NS previously provided exclusive service to this GM plant.
• This new autoloading facility will transform rail activity on the Missouri Eastern RR. Based on the numbers provided in the link above, this facility could see 25 autorack railcars being delivered and dispatched on a daily basis. Missouri Eastern will also need to construct their own railyard at the site of this new facility.
Point of clarification: Rock Island RR went bankrupt in 1979 and Southern Pacific assumed control of some of the lines including this one. SP did not buy the Rock Island, as I wrote in a previous post.
Trains article on CN request to takeover KCS Springfield line and how it intends to invest $250 million if it gets a favorable ruling.
Region logistics players know a lot better than I but from purely looking a rail map you could argue that yes, you give up a Class I into the region, but yes CN becomes a much better connected to the region especially on north south axis. Of note in all this, I also think it is overlooked on how successful the rail car ferry from Mobile AL to Southern Mexico has been as I believe they have replaced their old rail car ship with an updated, larger faster rail cargo ship and have a second one coming online in which it gives CN has direct Mexico access via a rail car vessel. Add that with future box on barge service coming up from New Orleans and can argue that St Louis might be better off with a better connected CN on north south axis versus keeping a secondary CPKC east west line since NS, UP and BNSF all run to Kansas City
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... ojections/
In Illinois, CN proposes building a new siding and two siding extensions. In Missouri, CN would extend five sidings and relocate and expand a fifth. In the KCS yard in East St. Louis, CN would add 5,000 feet of track for auto traffic and 6,000 feet for intermodal traffic. At the KCS International Freight Gateway intermodal terminal south of Kansas City, CN would add 6,600 feet of track for automotive business and 20,000 feet to support its intermodal operations.
Region logistics players know a lot better than I but from purely looking a rail map you could argue that yes, you give up a Class I into the region, but yes CN becomes a much better connected to the region especially on north south axis. Of note in all this, I also think it is overlooked on how successful the rail car ferry from Mobile AL to Southern Mexico has been as I believe they have replaced their old rail car ship with an updated, larger faster rail cargo ship and have a second one coming online in which it gives CN has direct Mexico access via a rail car vessel. Add that with future box on barge service coming up from New Orleans and can argue that St Louis might be better off with a better connected CN on north south axis versus keeping a secondary CPKC east west line since NS, UP and BNSF all run to Kansas City
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... ojections/
In Illinois, CN proposes building a new siding and two siding extensions. In Missouri, CN would extend five sidings and relocate and expand a fifth. In the KCS yard in East St. Louis, CN would add 5,000 feet of track for auto traffic and 6,000 feet for intermodal traffic. At the KCS International Freight Gateway intermodal terminal south of Kansas City, CN would add 6,600 feet of track for automotive business and 20,000 feet to support its intermodal operations.
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^A few of the railroaders I hear from on other forums are suggesting this will probably end up as a trackage rights swap. CN is offering CP trackage rights in a couple of places in exchange for the line. CP could counter with a simpler trackage rights swap where everyone wins. We'll see what comes of it. CP may well be happy to let CN improve the KCS line through Louisiana, but I'd be shocked if CP lets CN box them out of St. Louis.
Next round of competitive Port grants as well as Airport by Feds. Posted here as I imagine the Airport grants will be hugely competitive and not sure if Lambert ready to submit something where as region has made a lot of progress in building its port infrastructure and sure their is some more grant applications in the ready, especially with containers on barge might be on Admin radar to move along as a means to reduce port congestion.
https://www.enr./articles/53658-us-dot- ... 1021934J9T
The U.S. Dept. of Transportation continues its rollout of funding from the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, seeking applications for a new airport terminal grant program and for an expanded maritime port grant program.
DOT’s Federal Aviation Administration on Feb. 22 issued a “notice of funding opportunity" for $1 billion in Airport Terminal Program grants. The amount represents the fiscal year 2022 portion of a five-year, $5-billion allocation for the program which was created under the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act.
Maritime Port Infrastructure Grants
DOT’s Maritime Administration on Feb. 23 announced the availability of about $450 million in 2022 Port Infrastructure Development Program grants. Applications are due by May 16, and a senior Biden administration official said in a Feb. 22 media briefing that DOT anticipates the grant awards will be made in the fall. “We will move as quickly a possible.”
The IIJA provides a total of $2.25 billion over five years, The notice applies to the 2022 installment of $450 million. That represents an increase of 50% from 2021’s $300-million appropriation.
Maritime Administration officials added that these grants will help the U.S. expand terminals, construct new piers, freight rail yards and storage facilities so goods move more quickly, for broader economic benefits. As one official said during the briefing: “These investments in port infrastructure will help get American goods to market and products from ships to shelves faster, ultimately reducing costs to the American people."
https://www.enr./articles/53658-us-dot- ... 1021934J9T
The U.S. Dept. of Transportation continues its rollout of funding from the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, seeking applications for a new airport terminal grant program and for an expanded maritime port grant program.
DOT’s Federal Aviation Administration on Feb. 22 issued a “notice of funding opportunity" for $1 billion in Airport Terminal Program grants. The amount represents the fiscal year 2022 portion of a five-year, $5-billion allocation for the program which was created under the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act.
Maritime Port Infrastructure Grants
DOT’s Maritime Administration on Feb. 23 announced the availability of about $450 million in 2022 Port Infrastructure Development Program grants. Applications are due by May 16, and a senior Biden administration official said in a Feb. 22 media briefing that DOT anticipates the grant awards will be made in the fall. “We will move as quickly a possible.”
The IIJA provides a total of $2.25 billion over five years, The notice applies to the 2022 installment of $450 million. That represents an increase of 50% from 2021’s $300-million appropriation.
Maritime Administration officials added that these grants will help the U.S. expand terminals, construct new piers, freight rail yards and storage facilities so goods move more quickly, for broader economic benefits. As one official said during the briefing: “These investments in port infrastructure will help get American goods to market and products from ships to shelves faster, ultimately reducing costs to the American people."
With regards to the discussion of CP-KCS' plans and presence in the St. Louis gateway along with CN's interest in their regional network of trackage, let's dial back a few pages to where TRRA's St. Louis bridges and their related tariffs/fees were mentioned. One un-mentioned advantage KCS has upstream on the 'Mighty Mississippi' in Pike County, MO: it's own bridge. It's an old swing span that was built in the late 1800s and will likely need replacement in the coming years, but it gives any east-west traffic KCS handles out of East St. Louis, IL, the advantage of avoiding the TRRA's bridge fees. Also not mentioned is the legal ownership of KCS' current yard terminal in East St. Louis.. And who might that be? Why, CN of course (well, actually, Illinois Central RR, which still exists on paper most likely for tax purposes)! This also includes CN's long-shuttered intermodal hub in Venice, which they're obviously holding onto despite their last intermodal train departed there around 20 years ago. One has to ponder how CN could play their hand in East St. Louis following approval of CP-KCS, and if they would force KCS out of there. Could this be one reason KCS has plans for a new terminal in Jerseyville, IL? For what it's worth, I don't think the STB would force CP-KCS to outright surrender its network in this region to CN. Rather, I do see the possibility that CN could gain access from Chicago to the KCS @ Springfield to reach Kansas CIty via permanent trackage or haulage rights, but doing so opens up a whole new can of worms...
As far as CN accessing Springfield from East St. Louis to get to Kansas City, they already have permanent rights (although not currently utilized) over UP's Springfield Sub between St. Louis and Joliet as part of long-established agreements that date back to the IC / GM&O '72 merger. These effectively carried through to the line's later transfer of ownership to the ill-fated Chicago, Missouri & Western and later the Southern Pacific Chicago Short Line (dubbed "SPCSL" or "spizzle" - which was just a paper railroad for the Southern Pacific RR), and now, of course, UP following the UP-SP merger of 1996. However, complicating matters for CN wanting to route traffic from its own Chicago-Springfield route WEST to Kansas City via the KCS @ Springfield is that due to a long-standing "iron curtain" agreement as part of the complicated history of all the mergers and line sales in this area, CN is effectively blocked from accessing the KCS line since UP owns and controls the connection to "KC Junction" (by road, located at the intersection of Veterans Parkway & Interstate 72)! My guess is that UP's lawyers are keenly aware of this agreement and that will be brought to the STB's attention when and if that time comes. UP may then wish to use the "Springfield iron curtain" clause as leverage to gain access to other markets currently served exclusively by KCS in states like Texas as a condition of the merger. Likewise, CN could use its ownership of KCS' East St. Louis yard terminal as its own bargaining chip.. Could be really interesting to see how this complicated mess all unfolds!
As far as CN accessing Springfield from East St. Louis to get to Kansas City, they already have permanent rights (although not currently utilized) over UP's Springfield Sub between St. Louis and Joliet as part of long-established agreements that date back to the IC / GM&O '72 merger. These effectively carried through to the line's later transfer of ownership to the ill-fated Chicago, Missouri & Western and later the Southern Pacific Chicago Short Line (dubbed "SPCSL" or "spizzle" - which was just a paper railroad for the Southern Pacific RR), and now, of course, UP following the UP-SP merger of 1996. However, complicating matters for CN wanting to route traffic from its own Chicago-Springfield route WEST to Kansas City via the KCS @ Springfield is that due to a long-standing "iron curtain" agreement as part of the complicated history of all the mergers and line sales in this area, CN is effectively blocked from accessing the KCS line since UP owns and controls the connection to "KC Junction" (by road, located at the intersection of Veterans Parkway & Interstate 72)! My guess is that UP's lawyers are keenly aware of this agreement and that will be brought to the STB's attention when and if that time comes. UP may then wish to use the "Springfield iron curtain" clause as leverage to gain access to other markets currently served exclusively by KCS in states like Texas as a condition of the merger. Likewise, CN could use its ownership of KCS' East St. Louis yard terminal as its own bargaining chip.. Could be really interesting to see how this complicated mess all unfolds!
^ This is a fantastic post filled with useful information that's not easy to gather. Thanks vm for posting this!
If the STB grants CN trackage rights over the KCS Mexico sub, then I can't see how they wouldn't have to simultaneously grant CSXT trackage rights over the same line, as well. After all, the two road trains that KCS runs on the Mexico Sub (MVNKC & MKCVN) appear to me to be 80% traffic that's interchanged with CSXT at Rose Lake.
If STB grants both CN and CSXT trackage rights on the KCS Mexico sub, then Kansas City now has all the Class Is and St Louis' gateway status is diminished. I don't really think that's critical, but KC might then supplant St Louis as the second biggest freight interchange center in the US. So, I would expect business interests in St Louis to be strongly against the STB granting CN any trackage rights.
I wonder where the State of Illinois stands on CN's request? Do they really want CN accessing their beloved HSR rail (i.e UP Springfield sub) for 20 or so miles in Springfield? But then what if CN decides to start exercising their trackage rights to run trains down UP's line from Joliet to East St Louis? As a St Louis railfan, I would love to see CN build an intermodal terminal in Sauget or Venice and run stack trains from Prince Rupert BC to StL, just like they do in Memphis. It's a pipe dream I know. In that scenario, those stack trains would run down UP's line from Joliet. Although, they wouldn't have to. They could run them down CN's mainline to Du Quoin, IL and then up the CN St Louis sub.
Scott's post further strengthens my belief that the proposed MAIG in Jerseyville is going to happen... eventually. As I highlighted in a previous post, Illinois has built a four lane limited access highway that runs from I-270 in Pontoon Beach / Edwardsville to the proposed MAIG site. Can that really be a coincidence?
If the STB grants CN trackage rights over the KCS Mexico sub, then I can't see how they wouldn't have to simultaneously grant CSXT trackage rights over the same line, as well. After all, the two road trains that KCS runs on the Mexico Sub (MVNKC & MKCVN) appear to me to be 80% traffic that's interchanged with CSXT at Rose Lake.
If STB grants both CN and CSXT trackage rights on the KCS Mexico sub, then Kansas City now has all the Class Is and St Louis' gateway status is diminished. I don't really think that's critical, but KC might then supplant St Louis as the second biggest freight interchange center in the US. So, I would expect business interests in St Louis to be strongly against the STB granting CN any trackage rights.
I wonder where the State of Illinois stands on CN's request? Do they really want CN accessing their beloved HSR rail (i.e UP Springfield sub) for 20 or so miles in Springfield? But then what if CN decides to start exercising their trackage rights to run trains down UP's line from Joliet to East St Louis? As a St Louis railfan, I would love to see CN build an intermodal terminal in Sauget or Venice and run stack trains from Prince Rupert BC to StL, just like they do in Memphis. It's a pipe dream I know. In that scenario, those stack trains would run down UP's line from Joliet. Although, they wouldn't have to. They could run them down CN's mainline to Du Quoin, IL and then up the CN St Louis sub.
Scott's post further strengthens my belief that the proposed MAIG in Jerseyville is going to happen... eventually. As I highlighted in a previous post, Illinois has built a four lane limited access highway that runs from I-270 in Pontoon Beach / Edwardsville to the proposed MAIG site. Can that really be a coincidence?
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Yes, it’s more coincidence than a conscious decision by IL to expand to the MAIG facility at Delphi. 255 was initially planned back in the 70s, and the first segments built in the late 90s and early 00s. And the highway 67 expansion has been in the works since at least the early 00s. So if anything, MAIG chose Jerseyville Delphi because of the highway projects, but definitely not the other way around.
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St. Louis hasn't been the second busiest rail hub since the 80s, I think. Kansas City overtook us decades ago. (And for a while Chicago as well, at least by tonnage. But apparently the decline in coal traffic has fixed that.) I'm honestly not even sure that we're third anymore. I'm having a hard time finding the data. But KC is already, and has long been second, or even sometimes and by some measures first. It's an absurdly busy rail hub.kota wrote: ↑Feb 25, 2022If STB grants both CN and CSXT trackage rights on the KCS Mexico sub, then Kansas City now has all the Class Is and St Louis' gateway status is diminished. I don't really think that's critical, but KC might then supplant St Louis as the second biggest freight interchange center in the US. So, I would expect business interests in St Louis to be strongly against the STB granting CN any trackage rights.