The St. Louis Regional Freightway

kota · PostFeb 26, 2022#3762022-02-26T06:36+00:00

Thanks, SP, for your reply. I wasn't referring to St Louis as the second biggest rail center. KC is in second place behind Chicago whether you measure by tonnage or train counts etc, and on both of those measures well ahead of St Louis.

I was referring to St Louis as the second biggest gateway or freight interchange point between railroads. The St Louis Regional Freightway makes reference to this in some of their communications. I do believe St Louis is ahead of KC in that regard.

CN doesn't really move much freight through St Louis and I am highly skeptical of their projections for the line from Springfield to KC. The real issue revolves around CSXT. If CN is granted trackage rights on the current KCS Mexico Sub, then wouldn't that disadvantage CSXT? CSXT interchanges a LOT of freight in St Louis with the western railroads, especially UP. This is the can of worms I don't think the key parties want to open. CSXT was the only railroad to publicly support the CP / KCS merger.

symphonicpoet · PostFeb 26, 2022#3772022-02-26T07:40+00:00

Sorry, I misread you. And yes, Chicago is ahead of KC on tonnage again. (But there was a period of time when KC actually edged Chi-town out, thanks to Power River coal.) Maybe is still the No. 2 point of exchange between railroads.

Back in the seventies I think it was the TRRA had a proposal for a clean-slate rebuild of railroading on the east side that would have utterly transformed both interchange between railroads and the flow of traffic through the Gateway. I think it would have replaced literally every yard on the east side save Gateway with a sort of Clearinghouse style mega-Madison. I really wonder what that would have done for the region.

Anyway, if CN granted CP trackage rights from Chicago to St. Louis in exchange for access to Kansas City via a reciprocal rights agreement that might not disadvantage CSX so badly. Might almost be a winner for everyone. I'll have to go back and see what exactly it was CN was offering, but I know the offered some kind of trackage rights agreement to sweeten the deal. Doesn't mean it'll go through. Even the merger isn't quite a sure thing yet, but I don't see what would really stop it anymore.

dweebe · PostFeb 26, 2022#3782022-02-26T19:04+00:00

How much stuff moves through that big freight yard in Memphis on the southeast side not far from the airport? Sure looks to be a monster when you drive by it and see the size of equipment being used.

quincunx · PostMar 11, 2022#3792022-03-11T13:17+00:00

Not happening. If only this had happened when some of the highways were proposed.

StlToday - Company kills Maryland Heights rail project that riled Chesterfield neighbors

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 06e10.html

dredger · PostMar 11, 2022#3802022-03-11T16:02+00:00

^ You wonder if decision driven by GM getting some concessions out of Norfolk Southern, reduce auto production w lack of chips, bad PR and or all of the both. Maybe the other way around and simply matter of the group not being able to secure commitment on enough inbound autos for the St. Louis market to make sense

symphonicpoet · PostMar 11, 2022#3812022-03-11T22:49+00:00

^^Gotta love rich NIMBYs. The photo nearly tells the story by itself.

dredger · PostMar 30, 2022#3822022-03-30T17:44+00:00

A great write up by Dean Klinkenberg on a huge piece of regional freight movement via the waterway

https://nextstl.com/2022/03/the-port-of-st-louis/

Since 2005, public and private entities have invested $200 million in the port facilities, about half of that private money. The expenditures have funded improvements in rail access to barge terminals, roads that connect terminals, and dock improvements.

pdm_ad · PostApr 07, 2022#3832022-04-07T00:39+00:00

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... -top-story

At a time when pandemic-related disruptions have slowed shipping and left some industries unable to produce goods, the state’s proposed new budget includes $50 million to make improvements to Missouri ports.

Among last-minute amendments added to the House version of the state’s new spending plan Tuesday was a $50 million addition that could go toward projects in Jefferson County, New Madrid County, St. Charles and Hannibal.

And..

In Jefferson County, the money could help construct a new port facility in Herculaneum to handle container cargo to and from the Gulf of Mexico.

The planned container-on-vessel port facility would handle vessels larger and faster than the typical river barge and will transport shipping containers full of goods to and from the Gulf of Mexico.
The facility will be built on more than 300 acres owned by Doe Run Co. and Fred Weber Inc.’s Riverview Commerce Park. Texas-based Hawtex Development Corp. will lead the development, along with Fred Weber Inc. and Riverview Commerce Park.

Officials do not know when construction could start, nor how much the project will cost. But Hawtex President James Hurley said his company’s goal is to have the facility operating by late 2024.

dredger · PostApr 07, 2022#3842022-04-07T18:49+00:00

Missouri is a funny state is the only way I can comprehend it without thinking how sad it is. MO statehouse wants to clawback a much needed gas tax increase after years of underfunding their road network and that is in comparison to other red states not IL and CA. They supposedly can't fund the second daily River Runner let alone find a way to take advantage of the rail infrastructure funding pot to expand KC, Jeff City/Columbia and St Louis (majority of the population) connectivity & transportation options with say Omaha and or Memphis/New Orleans whether you extend River Runner into IL or even pursue a New Orleans to KC route via CPKS by extending the proposed Baton Rouge service or both. But at a drop of dime via amendment the MO statehouse might go all in on $50 million in river ports funding.

sc4mayor · PostMay 06, 2022#3852022-05-06T20:21+00:00

JeffCo picked up $25 million from the state to pay for port expansion in anticipation of the container barges.

shadrach · PostMay 24, 2022#3862022-05-24T21:43+00:00

FYI—Freightweek is going on, it's virtual this year and sessions are free to watch. Lots of good container on vessel information. UP is tomorrow.

https://freightweekstl.thefreightway.com

gone corporate · PostMay 27, 2022#3872022-05-27T21:27+00:00

^Freightweek's a pretty big deal this year, and they're certainly bringing a lot to the table. I highly recommend everyone check out Shadrach's posted link above.

Meanwhile, it looks like the State of Missouri's putting some big money into the new port...

STL Biz Journal: Proposed St. Louis container shipping port meets milestones, receives $25M state grant

The state is contributing a $25 million grant to the development of a container shipping port in Herculaneum in Jefferson County, 35 miles south of St. Louis, that could handle “container-on-vessel” cargo traffic as early as 2024 under a plan led by Hawtex Development Corp., a development and consulting firm with operations in Texas and Hawaii. The port has been in the works for years, but the developers announced in December that plans are moving ahead, with a timeline to build and open the cargo port by the second half of 2024.

The money was appropriated in the fiscal year 2023 budget approved by the Missouri Legislature, which still has to be signed by Gov. Mike Parson. The Jefferson County Port Authority would use the grant to fund equipment needed to build the port, including but not limited to cranes, a Taylor lift, hostlers and a chassis, a scale and mooring dolphins, JCPA Deputy Director Cory Schuh said.

The Port Authority said that the state money is an “overwhelming show of legislative support” for the project, which officials from the county and the port authority lobbied for in 17 meetings with legislators in March.

gary kreie · PostJun 20, 2022#3882022-06-20T01:39+00:00

Lock and dam 27 will be 70 years old next year. Instead of rebuilding it in place, would it be possible to build a lock and dam South of downtown high enough to get barges up to lock 27 top level? It could form something like Alton Lake downtown with a somewhat controllable depth and current.

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CG91 · PostJun 20, 2022#3892022-06-20T18:29+00:00

gary kreie wrote:Lock and dam 27 will be 70 years old next year. Instead of rebuilding it in place, would it be possible to build a lock and dam South of downtown high enough to get barges up to lock 27 top level? It could form something like Alton Lake downtown with a somewhat controllable depth and current.

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If this is possible, STL needs to make it happen. Our downtown waterfront is abysmal. Every once in awhile I see yachts cruising past downtown and it kills me that we don’t have a marina and hardly any recreational boating in that stretch. If we could manage to create a recreational boating scene around downtown I think it would do wonders for bringing more people downtown in the summer. Not to mention how much it would help our image and show St. Louis is a “cool” city. I don’t go a single weekend without seeing people in Chicago post pictures on Instagram on Lake Michigan in front of their skyline. Something similar here would be amazing

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STLinCHI · PostJun 20, 2022#3902022-06-20T18:46+00:00

I would think the dam being above the confluence of the Missouri and Mississippi helps control flooding. I might be completely off base, but it seems logical.

gone corporate · PostJun 21, 2022#3912022-06-21T18:23+00:00

^It does; you are definitely right. Further, STL's riverfront is a working riverfront, I believe the second-busiest inland waterway port in the US and likely also the most productive per square mile by a considerable degree. A significant factor in this is that STL's port system is the furthest north port of its kind that doesn't freeze and is below a lock and dam system, enabling the largest barges & vessels to travel this far north before being limited by lock sizes. There is a considerable amount of our region's economy founded on this. With this in mind, I think a new lock and dam south of Downtown is not realistic because it could highly compromise the existing freight infrastructure while eliminating our geographic competitive advantage.

Q: Is there much pleasure boat traffic on the Missouri River? I see it as being a major river like the Mississippi in front of Downtown while being less occupied by barges and heavy transport boats (although it surely has that as well). Heck, if I could, I'd love to see more river travel on the Missouri, say from Old St. Charles to Augusta and on to Washington, maybe all the way to Hermann. I think a St. Charles marina would be much more realistic, and scenic, than one on the Mississippi near Downtown.

dweebe · PostJun 21, 2022#3922022-06-21T19:19+00:00

gary kreie wrote: ↑
Jun 20, 2022
Lock and dam 27 will be 70 years old next year. Instead of rebuilding it in place, would it be possible to build a lock and dam South of downtown high enough to get barges up to lock 27 top level? It could form something like Alton Lake downtown with a somewhat controllable depth and current.

I think the whole Chain of Rocks and elevation change pretty much forces 27 to stay where it is.

I'm no hydrologist, but would barge operators be okay with another lock & dam around the JB Bridge if it meant more river level stability above it?

dredger · PostJun 21, 2022#3932022-06-21T19:57+00:00

^ & ^^, I think you could probably add a third item in that the structure that would need to be designed, engineered, funded and built to create a pool of that size and magnitude would be far greater than anyhting that exists in the current inland system. Would be decades in the making even if you could get the support. As GC noted, it would actually take St Louis backwards in terms of why the region is so competitive in the inland system

For the Big Muddy, City and region needs to continue its focus on promoting river cruises with as many landings/stayovers downtown. Actually embrace the idea that this part of the river and the city itself was based on it being a working river instead. Otherwise, the benefits for the region is continued to build the greenways and expand upon restoring existing creeks that feed the Big Muddy & Missouri back to their natural state. To me, restoring the Des Peres River to its natural state from the confluence to at least Maplewood on the upriver end would give some great Mississippi River back water recreational opportunities.

sc4mayor · PostJul 06, 2022#3942022-07-06T14:48+00:00

sc4mayor wrote: ↑
Dec 31, 2021
Developer to pitch $236 million industrial park in Wildwood
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 94732.html

Looks like more warehouses may be coming to Chesterfield. Plans have been submitted with the city for 21 office/warehouse buildings along Eatherton Road. Appears to be just north of the runway at Spirit Airport. Looks to be for smaller tenants too.
https://www.chesterfield.mo.us/active-d ... pid=110984

gone corporate · PostJul 20, 2022#3952022-07-20T20:08+00:00

Site Selection magazine: Bridge to The Future; St. Louis is building a better platform for transport & logistics

Solid article on the Merchants Bridge redevelopment, how it impacts rail traffic, net regional infrastructure investments, and the increased importance of river-based cargo.
Note: Port pictured at bottom of the article is Mobile, AL; it's not a rendering of the future Herculaneum port.

RockChalkSTL · PostJul 20, 2022#3962022-07-20T20:49+00:00

Excellent stuff. Thank you, sir.

"There’s an “immense demand,” says Lamie, for industrial space along Route 3, as well as the potential to develop it."

“We have a series of industrial sites in that region and available locations for growth. There’s vacant industrial land that has close proximity to multimodal transportation that is not quite developer-ready. We’re identifying those sites and trying to take on some of those challenges so we can move the needle and move them to developer-ready.”

I really enjoyed this snippet in the article. It really would make so much sense to develop Route 3 with loads of freight-related projects. Would love to see the state of Illinois contribute more to this area and see if they can't help kickstart a rejuvenation of inner city Metro East. It'd be utterly fantastic for Metro East, the state of Illinois, and Greater St. Louis.

When might we get renderings of the future Herculaneum port?

Do we know if they're targeting a specific year for launch? 2025? 2026?

CG91 · PostJul 20, 2022#3972022-07-20T20:52+00:00

What’s going on with the MacArthur bridge trestles around Broadway? I feel like there’s been construction going on there since last summer but was curious if they’re going to clear out any of the abandoned parts of that bridge to open up that area to redevelopment (or more likely just parking lots)

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dredger · PostJul 20, 2022#3982022-07-20T21:20+00:00

gone corporate wrote: ↑
Jul 20, 2022
Site Selection magazine: Bridge to The Future; St. Louis is building a better platform for transport & logistics

Solid article on the Merchants Bridge redevelopment, how it impacts rail traffic, net regional infrastructure investments, and the increased importance of river-based cargo.
Note: Port pictured at bottom of the article is Mobile, AL; it's not a rendering of the future Herculaneum port.

Thanks for posting the article. Definitely Mobile, we have one our vessels in drydock just upriver from that container terminal. However, maybe not a bad pic in respect that you could easily take a container off the ship in Mobile and send it via barge on the inland waterway just as easily you can from New Orleans. Mobile would actually offer two different inland routes; Gulf Coast waterway to Big Muddy and or Tennessee - Tombigbee waterway to Ohio to Big Muddy. Not nearly as direct and as efficient. For that matter you could us take a container via inland waterway from Port of Houston to St Louis. Would be even a longer less efficient water route..

jacob_rb_15 · PostJul 20, 2022#3992022-07-20T21:29+00:00

CG91 wrote: ↑
Jul 20, 2022
What’s going on with the MacArthur bridge trestles around Broadway? I feel like there’s been construction going on there since last summer but was curious if they’re going to clear out any of the abandoned parts of that bridge to open up that area to redevelopment (or more likely just parking lots)

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I believe that's the rest of the old road deck and trestles being removed.

gone corporate · PostJul 21, 2022#4002022-07-21T20:15+00:00

RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑
Jul 20, 2022
It really would make so much sense to develop Route 3 with loads of freight-related projects. Would love to see the state of Illinois contribute more to this area and see if they can't help kickstart a rejuvenation of inner city Metro East. It'd be utterly fantastic for Metro East, the state of Illinois, and Greater St. Louis.

When might we get renderings of the future Herculaneum port?

Do we know if they're targeting a specific year for launch? 2025? 2026?

Agree wholeheartedly. If I had the free cash to just speculate on buying land in the STL region, I'd be buying up properties for industrial and warehousing up and down Route 3 as well as along 255 starting near Dupo. The near East Side can absolutely become a national cluster for logistics operations beyond being the rail and barge hub that it already is. I'm thinking the goals should be both warehousing and light industrial for manufacturing direct to export.

FYI The American Patriot freighters are anticipated to be on the river I believe around the 4th quarter of 2024. I have no idea when we'll see renderings of Herculaneum.

The St. Louis Regional Freightway

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