urbanSTL

urbinite wrote:Nails in the brick wall, huge holes that are not patched up, old/cracked window moldings that are poorly painted over, but some crackes are not even filled in with paint... Areas of the ceiling that need to be painted again.. The list goes on....

Developers are saying that all this is part of the loft"style"... I've seen hundreds of lofts, and can tell a difference between what supposed to be a loft style, and poor paint job....

Am i being too picky?, or is it just my unit?

Has anyone else had similar experience?

A poor paint job is NOT "loft style". It's a poor paint job.



And the windows are all supposed to be new.

As most have already mentioned, do not close until you are absolutely happy with your unit.



These developers can tell us all day that shoddy craftsmanship is "the loft style," but the standards governing the quality of work required is not nearly as subjective as they seem to be attempting to assert.



Please don't anyone believe for a second that because our contracts are silent on certain issues (e.g. whether the walls actually need to be painted correctly) that this means the developers are not obligated to satisfactorily perform.



If you feel that you're being cheated, you probably are. Do not close on your unit until everything is taken care of. If any one of the developers threatens some sort of legal action because of your refusal to close, please let us all know. If you feel seriously pressured, I'd also suggest contacting an attorney.



I'd also suggest to everyone to end leases/set moving plans for a couple weeks (or longer) beyond your inspection dates so no one will feel pressured to close before they're comfortable.



Oh, and in the meantime, please reproduce any and all negative posts on the thread for the Alexa.



And we probably shouldn't all freak out either, as long as everyone stands their ground a bit, we'll all end up with what we were expecting and what we've paid for. This unpleasantness will all be forgotten a couple months down the road when we're all enjoying our new building.

I have been very pleased with the reactions I got to the items I pointed out to be included on my punch list. I was a little disturbed that I had to do the walk-through before they had really finished things. However, I just plugged on through, pointing out every little thing, no matter how obvious it was that they would be planning to finish. I was never told things were "loft style" and therefore to be left poorly done. I met with no resistance on any of the items in my punchlist. The ceiling and the columns are the only areas that look a little more rustic than I would like. Even with those, they agreed to get rid of the major issues I had with them.



As has been mentioned before, I agree that the problems are largely caused by the fact that the developers really pushed for us to complete our walkthroughs so that they could cut any delays short. I have generally been pleased with the final product and their willingness to make everything right that came up as a surprise to me. Furthermore, I just left the unit and they have largely accomplished everything on that list so I appreciate the fact that they followed through with what they said. It looks like they are through most of my punchlist so I may not have to close with very much outstanding but I am comfortable with the way things have been handled and plan to close whether the entire list has been completed or not because there are such few minor things still to do.

I'm not really a baseboard expert so didn't notice anything amiss. What is the standard for baseboards and how are these below the standard in your opinion?



Thanks,

Dave

loftlover wrote:

innov8ion wrote:Here's some pictures from Unit 204: http://picasaweb.google.com/innov8ion/Loft/

Looking at those pictures, they really did "cheap out" on those baseboards!

^IMO they should should have some substance to them, at least 3 or 4 or more inches wide. Looks like the ones in the photos are 2 inches at most and very thin. Obviously the more substantial the material the more expensive. Just check out HD or Lowes and you'll see the range in prices. I think MW typically uses six inch stained hardwood while Pyramid uses 4 1/2 inch painted softwood.

If you review the Standard Interiors Finish Package from the sales certificate (it’s an excel spreadsheet print out), it specifically lists that the wall base throughout the unit will be 1” x 4” painted. 1” x 4” is a standard trim. I addressed this SPECIFICALLY today in my walkthrough and was told that it was never the intent to have 1” x 4” and this must have been a typo. I also pointed out that this document indicates there will be 3 over island pendant lights with an 8” track lighting and my unit contains 2 pendants.



I realize this information can and will change (i.e. it also lists plastic laminate for the kitchen counters and we all know that granite is the standard) but I did not feel as though this is standard and/or an acceptable replacement. It’s certainly not an upgrade to go to 1” x 2” from what is listed as 1” x 4”.



Has anyone else addressed the trim with the developers? If so, what sort of reply did you receive?

this is just my opinion, but I would not close unless they fixed it. I understand that they may claim its a typo, but they shoul dhave prrofread it, the bootom line is that you relied on it and that is the most important factor.

It could very well have been a typo. Going from 1X4 trim to 1X2 would only save them a couple of bucks. But if you really want the 1X4, push for it. Personally, I don't see it as a big issue, but then I haven't seen it in person.



I would also push for the 3rd light.

I didn't question them on the baseboards, but I did talk to them about the third pendant some time ago when we were making our light selections. I was told that it was only going to be two pendants and there was only room for two on the track and that if I wanted three I'd have to get another track added. I didn't push the issue, but I see now that the tracks are in that there is room for a third.

Downtown Newbie wrote:I didn't question them on the baseboards, but I did talk to them about the third pendant some time ago when we were making our light selections. I was told that it was only going to be two pendants and there was only room for two on the track and that if I wanted three I'd have to get another track added. I didn't push the issue, but I see now that the tracks are in that there is room for a third.

I wonder if it could be a wattage issue. Those tracks can only hold so many watts, usually about 300. If a third light pushes you over the limits on wattage than you can see why they wouldn't do it.

If that were the case, they should have said it was a wattage issue. But they didn't -- They said it was a space issue.

irocktheparty2000 wrote:I wonder if it could be a wattage issue. Those tracks can only hold so many watts, usually about 300. If a third light pushes you over the limits on wattage than you can see why they wouldn't do it.

Harvey_Birdman wrote:As most have already mentioned, do not close until you are absolutely happy with your unit.



These developers can tell us all day that shoddy craftsmanship is "the loft style," but the standards governing the quality of work required is not nearly as subjective as they seem to be attempting to assert.



Please don't anyone believe for a second that because our contracts are silent on certain issues (e.g. whether the walls actually need to be painted correctly) that this means the developers are not obligated to satisfactorily perform.



If you feel that you're being cheated, you probably are. Do not close on your unit until everything is taken care of. If any one of the developers threatens some sort of legal action because of your refusal to close, please let us all know. If you feel seriously pressured, I'd also suggest contacting an attorney.



I'd also suggest to everyone to end leases/set moving plans for a couple weeks (or longer) beyond your inspection dates so no one will feel pressured to close before they're comfortable.



Oh, and in the meantime, please reproduce any and all negative posts on the thread for the Alexa.



And we probably shouldn't all freak out either, as long as everyone stands their ground a bit, we'll all end up with what we were expecting and what we've paid for. This unpleasantness will all be forgotten a couple months down the road when we're all enjoying our new building.

Please heed this advice!! If you do choose to close before everything is satisfactory, have your title company escrow money for the necessary work. It shouldn't be released until after the work is completed in a workmanlike fashion. I love being back in St. Louis but I bought a rehab in McKinley Heights and kind of got "stuck". It has been a nightmare trying to recoup anything from the seller's realtor, who was also the condo association manager at the time. I've contacted the city offices (ugh), the BBB, a mediator, an attorney, and am trying to take it to the MO Attorney General's office...



Innov8tion, I like the pics you posted! Good luck to all -- I hope it works out!

^I thought this building wasn't going to have any retail and that they filled their first floor with parking, but I'm not sure I could be thinking about a different building.

^I stand corrected.

I've heard rumors about coffee and massage places but who knows...

Sniba Snaba wrote:The intent of my reply was not to correct you so I hope you didn't take it as such. I'm simply inquiring about the retail space as I find this to be an ideal location and am curious as to what new commerce we can expect in the downtown area as this development nears completion.



It's always nice to know/hear about retailers occupying these locations especially considering I'm interested to see which building will be the first to house a late night diner!

innov8ion wrote:I've heard rumors about coffee and massage places but who knows...

Sniba Snaba wrote:The intent of my reply was not to correct you so I hope you didn't take it as such. I'm simply inquiring about the retail space as I find this to be an ideal location and am curious as to what new commerce we can expect in the downtown area as this development nears completion.



It's always nice to know/hear about retailers occupying these locations especially considering I'm interested to see which building will be the first to house a late night diner!

A massage parlor? Cool! I won't have to go to the east side!

There have been a lot of rumors -- a furniture store, Starbucks, I don't remember what else, but I don't think anything has been decided yet.

Only part of the first floor is parking. From what I understand about the retail, the photo place will remain in it's current location so that only one side is available, which is where the showroom is plus a little more space along Tucker that is currently walled off. The last time I asked about it, I was shown a flyer for the listing by a commercial real estate company whose name I don't recall. They had received some interest in the ad, but I think the developers are being particular about what they would allow in the space. I think Aimster's right in that nothing has been decided - only a lot of speculation.

Downtown Newbie wrote:

innov8ion wrote:If that were the case, they should have said it was a wattage issue. But they didn't -- They said it was a space issue.

irocktheparty2000 wrote:I wonder if it could be a wattage issue. Those tracks can only hold so many watts, usually about 300. If a third light pushes you over the limits on wattage than you can see why they wouldn't do it.

It's possible that the person I was talking to at the time didn't really know why - just that they couldn't do it. I've experienced that a few times in my discussions with them. If someone decides to address this with them, let us know what reason they give. I'd be interested to know. I don't think the pendants look bad, but I do feel something is off balance that a third pendant would fix.

I don't think the pendants look bad either but the 'trim' doesn’t look good - IMO. I took this spec sheet with me during my walkthrough to denote what was considered standard and that is where my additional questions arose. However, I stand correcting myself because after further review of the sales contract I do believe these changes are in the 'legal' right of the developers. On page 5, #10 Construction indicates, paraphrased, that:



“the Purchaser acknowledges that Seller reserves the right:

--to substitute or change materials or brand names to those of similar/better color/quality

--make such changes in construction means, methods and materials as Seller may reasonably deem necessary so long as they meet code, and

--make changes that the Seller deems necessary due to material shortages, strikes, etc. so long as these changes doesn't impact the Anticipated Closing Date.”



I realize that the developers aren’t attorneys but it seems as though they would know their legal rights as to substitutions (i.e. 2nd bathrooms are now getting glass enclosures instead of the fiberglass which was listed in the spec sheet which appears to me to be of better quality) so that they may exercise their rights accordingly. These developers have been in and out of the building with regularity so I guess I did/do assume that they are cognizant of design specs and changes that impact all units. I think there are several people who are not particularly fond of the installed trim because it’s not standard or, IMHO, really even resembles typical trim.



As previously mentioned, the response I received didn’t seem reasonable, to me, especially since this is a legal contract and errors in such documents usually go against the Seller. So, if it were truly a typo, then it seems plausible that the Purchaser may have an option of recourse hence the reason I threw it out here to see if anyone had addressed these issues before. I am obviously no attorney and to obtain a global perspective, dug down a little further last night to obtain the construction language I inserted above.

Although it has been months since I reviewed our sales contract and the specifications, I did raise some of these issues before signing my reservation contract in August 2005. I believe I was directed to the language of the actual document that was signed and retained by the Meridian. In this particular clause I thought only very specific portions of the specifications packet were specifically incorporated by reference into the actual agreement that was signed. I was told that the description of the parcel was what they had envisioned but would change quite a bit through this process. If I remember correctly I was satisfied that the contract read that way and had them affirmatively incorporate additional documents that concerned issues that were or particular importance to me. To that end, the description may not hold the developers to an of its specifications.

I did my walkthrough today. I was very impressed. Yes, there were several issues (paint touch-ups, dings here and there), but the developers who accompanied me seemed very willing to fix everything. There wasn't a single thing that I would consider "out of the ordinary" for a walkthrough of a newly-constructed residence.



I think people are tweaking out on this board for no reason. As some people have mentioned, these developers haven't been presenting completely finished units for these walkthroughs. They acknowledged this before I even entered my unit. They're going to fix everything in my punch-list as they finish the unit.



Overall, I think my unit looked spectacular. It looks like the developers have done/are doing a very nice job on this building. I've seen several downtown loft buildings, and the Meridian looks like it will compare very favorably to these other buildings.



As to the common areas, the developers are laying hardwood flooring throughout the halls on the majority of the floors and it looks to be of significant quality. The lighting and fixtures on the walls look fine as well - as good or better than most other loft buildings I've been in downtown. I have no idea why people would rant about these common areas, when it is very clear that they are not even finished.



It seems to me that people only feel the need to post on this board when something negative arises, but this doesn't portray this project in an accurate light. The developers aren't trying to scam anyone; they're just scrambling to get things done and get people moved into their units. Having read these boards, I walked into my inspection expecting a complete disaster. This wasn't the case at all.



This building and the units inside will be some of the best on Washington thus far. Let's everyone wait until everything is actually FINISHED before declaring it otherwise.