I was told that if my bricks didn't clean up well, they would be drywalling over it so the developers didn't feel that they were leaving it to me to do but were delivering a finished unit without brick. I would prefer to have the brick and have been particularly concerned because my brick looked fine when I reserved before construction began. It has only been during the construction process and drilling of the light well that my bricks have begun to look so poorly. I'm anxious to find out how our issues are resolved.
- 56
Remember when we were first looking at the units, the website had different artist renderings of the interiors? One I specifically remember showed a bathtub by an arched window surrounded by red brick. The brick looked VERY clean.
For one, I always envisioned that the red brick interior would look like that.
For TWO, that (the website and artist renderings) was a key part of the Meridian's marketing of their units. I've noticed they've since changed the renderings, but I -- and likely everyone else who has red-brick in their unit --probably relied on these rendering in whole or in part in determining whether they wanted to purchase a unit that would have exposed red brick.
I still maintain that the developers are pretty nice people and have really been trying to satisfy everyone and will work this out, but I'm troubled by what seems to be happening at other developments and the stories that we've been told on this issue.
For one, I always envisioned that the red brick interior would look like that.
For TWO, that (the website and artist renderings) was a key part of the Meridian's marketing of their units. I've noticed they've since changed the renderings, but I -- and likely everyone else who has red-brick in their unit --probably relied on these rendering in whole or in part in determining whether they wanted to purchase a unit that would have exposed red brick.
I still maintain that the developers are pretty nice people and have really been trying to satisfy everyone and will work this out, but I'm troubled by what seems to be happening at other developments and the stories that we've been told on this issue.
- 6
We've all spoken with Ted and the architect... We've all done the research on Trivers... We've seen the artist's renderings... We've seen and touched the materials and design plans... These guys aren't doing this building to make a quick buck at the expense of the owners and their own good name. There's far too much money left out there to be had for that. Actually, it's my understanding that they are trying to break into the midwest market out of California. I think the real problem is that none of us are 100% comfortable making this large of an investment on such an abstract description of the completed design. All of us are operating on less information than is required to really know what's actually going on behind the scenes... Let's make our desires clear to the people in charge--but let's not jump to conclusions, sending our lawyer friends out in search of statutes and planning our attack in anticipation of things gone wrong!!!
- 56
Seeing as I started this discussion, let me be the first to agree that it's not a good idea to jump to any conclusions. I agree with you, I really think the developers are trying to help us all out, and not looking to screw us over.
Whether or not sandblasting is prohibited under the historic tax credit legislation, it very like IS discouraged.
Perhaps I'm letting my personal experiences with the developers cloud my better judgment. I've had some experiences with the developers that have led me to believe that they're very disorganized and it seems like every person you talk to over there gives a different version of what'll be happening with things. But, to be honest, they have come through on pretty much all my requests.
The only reason that I really see this as a somewhat pressing issue is that if the walls will require some sort of significant cleaning treatments, it seems like its going to be a complete mess to do with brand new wood floors put down, carpeting, nicely painted walls, brand new windows, appliances, etc. For some units, those features will be installed in just a couple weeks.
The other thing is this- at roughly a quarter of a million bucks a-piece, we're ALL entitled to complain a little.
Whether or not sandblasting is prohibited under the historic tax credit legislation, it very like IS discouraged.
Perhaps I'm letting my personal experiences with the developers cloud my better judgment. I've had some experiences with the developers that have led me to believe that they're very disorganized and it seems like every person you talk to over there gives a different version of what'll be happening with things. But, to be honest, they have come through on pretty much all my requests.
The only reason that I really see this as a somewhat pressing issue is that if the walls will require some sort of significant cleaning treatments, it seems like its going to be a complete mess to do with brand new wood floors put down, carpeting, nicely painted walls, brand new windows, appliances, etc. For some units, those features will be installed in just a couple weeks.
The other thing is this- at roughly a quarter of a million bucks a-piece, we're ALL entitled to complain a little.
- 6
My guess is that the people serving as our contacts right now aren't the ones behind the decisions... I trust Hip, for example, to pass on my questions and concerns (with some reservation even with this), but I don't assign to her much authority. Behind the scenes--I'm not sure if the ones calling the shots are making all of their decisions based on economics--but the one's making the calls about the finishing within the units seem far more artistic than bussiness-like. That may work to our favor. I'm sure they will think of something... I just think we need to be a little less doom and gloom and focus on possible solutions rather than planning our attack. For example--many people have renovated interiors before... Is there anyone out there with suggestions on doing this after the fact? Perhaps the developers will offer an allowance to do this satisfactorily without increasing our cost after signing? Also, does anyone REALLY know what's going on or are we all just making asumptions that the brick is NOT going to be treated?
StLooeyPimpJus wrote:We've all spoken with Ted and the architect... We've all done the research on Trivers... We've seen the artist's renderings... We've seen and touched the materials and design plans... These guys aren't doing this building to make a quick buck at the expense of the owners and their own good name. There's far too much money left out there to be had for that. Actually, it's my understanding that they are trying to break into the midwest market out of California. I think the real problem is that none of us are 100% comfortable making this large of an investment on such an abstract description of the completed design. All of us are operating on less information than is required to really know what's actually going on behind the scenes... Let's make our desires clear to the people in charge--but let's not jump to conclusions, sending our lawyer friends out in search of statutes and planning our attack in anticipation of things gone wrong!!!
For someone who does not live in the STL area, I would be clueless as to the brick issue if it were not for this thread! However, I am a bit concerned as I know that I am not the only person who is can't frequent the site and must rely on information supplied by the developers re: timelines, developments, etc. I am a bit frustrated with the lack of dissemination of information that is pertinent to the development and when I read postings such as this, it is concerning, whether it is 100% factual or not.
The Meridian has our email addresses and when issues such as the submission of our upgrade selections or installments, for example, we receive time dated emails in which we need to reply. We are all anxious to establish a more firm projected close date and it seems to me that rather than having several people calling and emailing inquiring about the same information, they could send out a newsletter or update to alleviate some of our concerns. I have also suggested periodic updates be provided on the website and was advised by Hip that this was proposed to the developers in December and she "will continue to push it for the benefit of current Buyers and Prospective Buyers." To outside parties who also review this thread, issues that are brought about based on assumptions certainly don't make a good impression on prospective buyers and I think that if the website were at least updated with construction information, that might attract more traffic which is good for all parties involved.
Irrespective of the brick issue, I was under the impression that the brick would not be delivered 'as is' and would be cleaned up. If there are any deviations from the delivery of what we were assumed to have received, this information should be relayed to all buyers collectively.
- 56
Again, I think Stlouiepimpjus has a point, there really has not been any firm indication that the developers will NOT treat the brick. So maybe we're all premature in getting riled up about this. So far, in my experience, the developers really are a pretty good group. I don't think there's any ONE of them that is not genuinely trying to deliver a good product. Anyone who has met them personally, I'm sure, will agree. Personally, everyone I've met seems very friendly, and very trustworthy. I did initiate this discussion, but I must say, there one thing, and only one thing that really spurred it - the lack of dissemination of information.
Without information, we naturally jump to conclusions.
But, I was informed earlier today that the bricks ARE being cleaned. Don't know how well, but I was informed we should go check out unit 507. Hopefully it looks pretty good. Anyone who has a chance to check this out, please report back if possible.
Allright, it's friday, I'm heading down to Wash Ave. myself in about five minutes. We all gotta admit, that building looks pretty awesome all lit up at night.
Without information, we naturally jump to conclusions.
But, I was informed earlier today that the bricks ARE being cleaned. Don't know how well, but I was informed we should go check out unit 507. Hopefully it looks pretty good. Anyone who has a chance to check this out, please report back if possible.
Allright, it's friday, I'm heading down to Wash Ave. myself in about five minutes. We all gotta admit, that building looks pretty awesome all lit up at night.
- 112
I visited Unit 510 which was also cleaned in part. The bricks looked a lot better and I am now confident that there will be no issue.
chad wrote:I am on the second floor. I am 31 years old. They told me I would be closing on June 18.
I look forward to meeting you once we all move in. How did you get that closing date set?
- 56
Speaking of brick, can someone remind me which floors actually have the red brick and which one's have the painted brick?
I'd also be interested in knowing how you got that closing date. So far I've received the usual response from the Meridian - about four different stories from four different people. It'd be nice to have some clue when we'll be moving in, especially seeing as it seems to be relatively soon for some of us.
The first question in this post, I'm actually asking for friend who has called the Meridian at least five times without them responding. This shouldn't be happening.
On a positive note, though, my unit is really coming together, and I think we'll all end up with an awesome place to live. It'll be a pleasure to meet all my new neighbors soon.
I'd also be interested in knowing how you got that closing date. So far I've received the usual response from the Meridian - about four different stories from four different people. It'd be nice to have some clue when we'll be moving in, especially seeing as it seems to be relatively soon for some of us.
The first question in this post, I'm actually asking for friend who has called the Meridian at least five times without them responding. This shouldn't be happening.
On a positive note, though, my unit is really coming together, and I think we'll all end up with an awesome place to live. It'll be a pleasure to meet all my new neighbors soon.
shelbyelyse,
they told my loan officer this information last week. I will be flying in from Tampa to close.
they told my loan officer this information last week. I will be flying in from Tampa to close.
- 6
Chad--are you in a lightwell unit?
Also, does anyone know at what state of readiness the unit must be in to close? Must the loft be inhabitable (I'm assuming yes)? Must it be 100% complete? Does the entire floor need to be inhabitable/complete? We may just be closing piecemeal-one unit at a time..
More food for thought--condos need a condo assn. I forget what the contract says--do the developers run for a year and then turn it over or do they just sit on the board? A little premature, I know--but it sounds like there is going to be a lot to decide very early on and I'm curious about the level interest
Anyway, good news about the brick... Look forward to meeting everyone!
Also, does anyone know at what state of readiness the unit must be in to close? Must the loft be inhabitable (I'm assuming yes)? Must it be 100% complete? Does the entire floor need to be inhabitable/complete? We may just be closing piecemeal-one unit at a time..
More food for thought--condos need a condo assn. I forget what the contract says--do the developers run for a year and then turn it over or do they just sit on the board? A little premature, I know--but it sounds like there is going to be a lot to decide very early on and I'm curious about the level interest
Anyway, good news about the brick... Look forward to meeting everyone!
- 56
The answers to your questions are in the sales contract. Under the section captioned "Closing date and title insurance," the contract says "the sale of premises shall be closed within 10 business days following the date of substantial completion of the unit."
The contract defines "substantially completed" as meaning "that a certificate of substantial completion executed by a registered or licensed architect or engineer has been completed..."
An architect I know informed me that "substantial completion" in the case of residential units generally means that, in layman's terms, that your unit will be ready to go, ready to be lived in. So, in answer to your question, the units don't have to "100%" complete, but pretty darn close.
Here's an example of a "substantial complete" definition from a typical real estate contract: "The date of substantial completion of the work is the date certified by the Owner when construction is sufficiently complete, in accordance with the contract documents, so the Owner can occupy or utilize the work for which it is intended, as expressed by the contract documents. "
In other words, the closing date, according to the contract will be within 10 business days of when our units are ready to be lived in. I guess we could close earlier if we want (within that 10 day period), but that'll be our closing deadline.
As far as units being turned over piecemeal; I'd kind of doubt it. It seems like at the very LEAST, the units would have to be turned over one complete floor at a time. The contract might allow one at a time, but I'd be willing to bet there are fire codes or something (or people complaining) if people are living in units with major construction occuring in the next-door uncompleted units (or even the floor directly above?). Personally, I wouldn't mind and would move in whenever my unit is ready, but I don't see completely "piecemeal" conveyance happening for those reasons.
As far as the condo association is concerned, the procedure for that is also in the sales contract. According to the contract, the developers will initially appoint a five member "board of the association." I'd assume the developers might just appoint themselves? Don't know. Either way, that arrangement will only be temporary.
According to the contract, within 60 days of the conveyance (closing, basically) of 25% of the maximum number of units, at least one member will be elected by the unit owners (us). (all members have to be unit owners). So, I guess we'd all get to vote a fellow unit owner onto the association at that point. 60 days following the conveyance of 50% of all available units, at least a third of the association (at least 2 members) must be elected by us. Following that, the association will cease to be run by the developers completely (and I assume will be run completely by the elected unit-owners) either after 75% of the units are conveyed, 2 years after the developers cease to offer any more units for sale, or whenever the developers decide to turn things over, whichever occurs the earliest.
In my opinion, this is a pretty decent set up. The developers (or a board of their choosing) will run things completely for at least the first 60 days that we all live there and will slowly (probably in less than a year (assuming the 75% unit-conveyance mark is met)) turn things over to the resident unit owners.
The contract defines "substantially completed" as meaning "that a certificate of substantial completion executed by a registered or licensed architect or engineer has been completed..."
An architect I know informed me that "substantial completion" in the case of residential units generally means that, in layman's terms, that your unit will be ready to go, ready to be lived in. So, in answer to your question, the units don't have to "100%" complete, but pretty darn close.
Here's an example of a "substantial complete" definition from a typical real estate contract: "The date of substantial completion of the work is the date certified by the Owner when construction is sufficiently complete, in accordance with the contract documents, so the Owner can occupy or utilize the work for which it is intended, as expressed by the contract documents. "
In other words, the closing date, according to the contract will be within 10 business days of when our units are ready to be lived in. I guess we could close earlier if we want (within that 10 day period), but that'll be our closing deadline.
As far as units being turned over piecemeal; I'd kind of doubt it. It seems like at the very LEAST, the units would have to be turned over one complete floor at a time. The contract might allow one at a time, but I'd be willing to bet there are fire codes or something (or people complaining) if people are living in units with major construction occuring in the next-door uncompleted units (or even the floor directly above?). Personally, I wouldn't mind and would move in whenever my unit is ready, but I don't see completely "piecemeal" conveyance happening for those reasons.
As far as the condo association is concerned, the procedure for that is also in the sales contract. According to the contract, the developers will initially appoint a five member "board of the association." I'd assume the developers might just appoint themselves? Don't know. Either way, that arrangement will only be temporary.
According to the contract, within 60 days of the conveyance (closing, basically) of 25% of the maximum number of units, at least one member will be elected by the unit owners (us). (all members have to be unit owners). So, I guess we'd all get to vote a fellow unit owner onto the association at that point. 60 days following the conveyance of 50% of all available units, at least a third of the association (at least 2 members) must be elected by us. Following that, the association will cease to be run by the developers completely (and I assume will be run completely by the elected unit-owners) either after 75% of the units are conveyed, 2 years after the developers cease to offer any more units for sale, or whenever the developers decide to turn things over, whichever occurs the earliest.
In my opinion, this is a pretty decent set up. The developers (or a board of their choosing) will run things completely for at least the first 60 days that we all live there and will slowly (probably in less than a year (assuming the 75% unit-conveyance mark is met)) turn things over to the resident unit owners.
shelbyelyse wrote:I visited Unit 510 which was also cleaned in part. The bricks looked a lot better and I am now confident that there will be no issue.
shelbyelsye, interesting use of the phrase "The bricks look a lot better and I am now confident that there will be no issue."
After taking a look at the bricks throughout the building myself today -- including the units you refer to, I thought to myself, "wow, shelbyelyse is quite the verbal linguist indeed - an absolutely bold wordsmith." But then I realized that you're just being sarcastic.
You should be careful, though, because sarcasm doesn't really come across all that well on the internet. People like cbroy2544 and Pimpjus might get the wrong idea.
As far as I can tell, the bricks look exactly the same as they did when I first brought up the issue, so I can appreciate your frustration. I can tell you this, though: today one of the nice girls at the Meridian informed me that they will be bringing someone in within the next couple of weeks to really clean the bricks up well. So, while the issue is far from resolved, it looks like it'll be taken care of (and I'M not being sarcastic, here
)On a totally unrelated note, does anyone know when that Brazilian steakhouse is going to open on Wash Ave? Brazilian steakhouses rock.
- 6
Thanks for the info, Harvey. I guess I could have read through the contract once again to remind myself of the specifics... Thanks for doing it for me. You must have a lot of time on your hands... Many friends, too! They all seem to be architects, lawyers, real estate agents... Very impressive (Now that's sarcasm--not much of a wordsmith, though. I do apologize.) In any case, you don't have to worry about me geting the wrong idea. I'm fairly level-headed and tend to be just stubborn enough to make my own decisions
You know the brick problem is almost certainly subjective. I doubt they'll ever look brand new. They aren't. I suspect Shelby wasn't being sarcastic, but was simply aesthetically pleased with how things are turning out. That encourages me, because I also suspect Shelby more likely represents the average owner's tastes/expectations. Regardless, if it does not come out in an acceptable way, I assume that we, as a building, will have an opportunity to rectify it.
One of the first objectives of the board will be to settle disputes between the developers and the owners. If need be, arbitration or mediation can be employed to settle potential questions as the one above--having at least one rep. from the development firm on the board will certainly expedite communication in this regard. However, as I'm starting to sound like the Birdman...maybe we should wait to obsess over these details when it actually becomes an issue.
You know the brick problem is almost certainly subjective. I doubt they'll ever look brand new. They aren't. I suspect Shelby wasn't being sarcastic, but was simply aesthetically pleased with how things are turning out. That encourages me, because I also suspect Shelby more likely represents the average owner's tastes/expectations. Regardless, if it does not come out in an acceptable way, I assume that we, as a building, will have an opportunity to rectify it.
One of the first objectives of the board will be to settle disputes between the developers and the owners. If need be, arbitration or mediation can be employed to settle potential questions as the one above--having at least one rep. from the development firm on the board will certainly expedite communication in this regard. However, as I'm starting to sound like the Birdman...maybe we should wait to obsess over these details when it actually becomes an issue.
- 56
You know, Pimpjus, it's really odd to me at how offended you seem to have gotten by my expressing some displeasure about some things with my unit. What are you, one of the developers?
Speaking of the developers, the NUMBER ONE reason this all became an issue is because one of the developers, in my opinion, made some misrepresentations to me regarding why the brick couldn't be cleaned. If you review my posts, however, you'll see that I've said THROUGHOUT that we should trust the developers to take care of things, that they likely will, etc. So maybe you should take that into account before insulting me and blowing your cover.
By the way, Pimpjus. Has this been as fun for you as it has for me? Here's to public forums!
Ahh, good times.
Speaking of the developers, the NUMBER ONE reason this all became an issue is because one of the developers, in my opinion, made some misrepresentations to me regarding why the brick couldn't be cleaned. If you review my posts, however, you'll see that I've said THROUGHOUT that we should trust the developers to take care of things, that they likely will, etc. So maybe you should take that into account before insulting me and blowing your cover.
By the way, Pimpjus. Has this been as fun for you as it has for me? Here's to public forums!
Ahh, good times.
Harvey, if you have a contention with one of the developers, take it up with them. If this were a laundromat, perhaps it would be appropriate to air dirty laundry. It just isn't. It's also not necessary to insult others on the board as has been apparent recently. Pimpjus' comments seem pretty reasonable. How about we just stick to the topic at hand and keep the ad hominem attacks out of it, eh? I value your activity on the board and am looking forward to future substantive contribution.
Harvey_Birdman wrote:You know, Pimpjus, it's really odd to me at how offended you seem to have gotten by my expressing some displeasure about some things with my unit. What are you, one of the developers?
Speaking of the developers, the NUMBER ONE reason this all became an issue is because one of the developers, in my opinion, made some misrepresentations to me regarding why the brick couldn't be cleaned. If you review my posts, however, you'll see that I've said THROUGHOUT that we should trust the developers to take care of things, that they likely will, etc. So maybe you should take that into account before insulting me and blowing your cover.
- 112
Harvey_Birdman wrote:shelbyelyse wrote:I visited Unit 510 which was also cleaned in part. The bricks looked a lot better and I am now confident that there will be no issue.
shelbyelsye, interesting use of the phrase "The bricks look a lot better and I am now confident that there will be no issue."
After taking a look at the bricks throughout the building myself today -- including the units you refer to, I thought to myself, "wow, shelbyelyse is quite the verbal linguist indeed - an absolutely bold wordsmith." But then I realized that you're just being sarcastic.
You should be careful, though, because sarcasm doesn't really come across all that well on the internet. People like cbroy2544 and Pimpjus might get the wrong idea.
As far as I can tell, the bricks look exactly the same as they did when I first brought up the issue, so I can appreciate your frustration. I can tell you this, though: today one of the nice girls at the Meridian informed me that they will be bringing someone in within the next couple of weeks to really clean the bricks up well. So, while the issue is far from resolved, it looks like it'll be taken care of (and I'M not being sarcastic, here
On a totally unrelated note, does anyone know when that Brazilian steakhouse is going to open on Wash Ave? Brazilian steakhouses rock.
I was not being sarcastic. I became concerned because the bricks seemed to have developed a white film that Ted was uncertain would come off. When I visited on 4/29, that film was gone and I was pleased that sealing the bricks would be adequate for me. I just revisited and observed a new gray film on 510 so I'm not sure what you saw when you visited. Regardless, I think/hope it can be cleaned to everyone's liking.
- 37
Just curious - Has anyone requested any customizations to your units? If so, what types of things did you request?
- 6,775
Downtown Newbie wrote:Just curious - Has anyone requested any customizations to your units? If so, what types of things did you request?
Not really. One thing I need to check on is changing the paint scheme. The cream colored walls and gray ceiling isn't going to cut it for the upper floors.
We pretty much customized everything -- wood floors, the tile in the bathrooms, upgraded bathroom fixtures. We know that we'll pay more to do it that way than doing it ourselves or getting our own contractors after the fact, but we just want it to be ready when we move in. We're not exactly handy and we don't want to screw anything up.
Harvey_Birdman wrote:The answers to your questions are in the sales contract. Under the section captioned "Closing date and title insurance," the contract says "the sale of premises shall be closed within 10 business days following the date of substantial completion of the unit."
The contract defines "substantially completed" as meaning "that a certificate of substantial completion executed by a registered or licensed architect or engineer has been completed..."
An architect I know informed me that "substantial completion" in the case of residential units generally means that, in layman's terms, that your unit will be ready to go, ready to be lived in. So, in answer to your question, the units don't have to "100%" complete, but pretty darn close.
Here's an example of a "substantial complete" definition from a typical real estate contract: "The date of substantial completion of the work is the date certified by the Owner when construction is sufficiently complete, in accordance with the contract documents, so the Owner can occupy or utilize the work for which it is intended, as expressed by the contract documents. "
In other words, the closing date, according to the contract will be within 10 business days of when our units are ready to be lived in. I guess we could close earlier if we want (within that 10 day period), but that'll be our closing deadline.
.
Does anyone know how and/or if the completion of the common areas such as the lobby, elevators, and hallways have to be fully completed and/or a certain percentage completed, in order to turn the units over? I know that the units are being turned over by floor. So, floor 2 will receive the first move in date and floors 3 and up will start closing after floor 2 is done. However, I do not know what the state of these common areas has to be in order to obtain a bldg permit or considered to be "substantially complete". Furthermore, would this impact what condo fees they could and could not collect if these common areas are not complete?
- 6
I doubt the common areas need to be 100% completed by the first move in date, but I'm fairly certain all hazards would have to be removed or appropriately barricaded and that common areas would have to be complete to the point that they do not interfere with the inhabitability of the remainder of the units... But that sounds like a good question for the developers. I'd bet my next paycheck, however, that regardless of the state of the common areas when we move in, we'll be paying the full assn. fee. It's bare bones as it is, plus most of it will cover electricity, water/sewer, HVAC, insurance, etc. for those common areas and not for our ability to use them. The developers certainly won't foot that bill... It'll be "pay it now or make it up later."
I'm still anticipating an August move in date for those of us on the upper floors--but several projects are six months or so behind. It'll be a practice in patience...
I'm still anticipating an August move in date for those of us on the upper floors--but several projects are six months or so behind. It'll be a practice in patience...
- 6,775
Looks like mid-September for me (8th floor)
Is anyone as upset as me about the delayed move-in date? I am on the 2nd floor and they delayed my move in date 2 months. My real estate agent was in there on Monday with another client looking to buy a unit. They told her that they would be done in the middle of June. They completely lied to her regarding my closing date. They asked us to lock in a loan over a month ago and now extra charges will be slapped on b/c I will not close within 90 days.