urbanSTL

^ As you said STLmike, if downtown is to make a go of the 6th street plan there are major issues to address:



1. Stronger connection to the dome/ convention center by developing lot on Delmar and 6th

2. Improved connection with Kiener Plaza through construction on 6th and Olive Lot.

3. Dominance of service entrances along the street frontage.



Given the plans, it makes all the sense in the world for the City to strongly consider proposals and plans to relocate the Gateway One tenants to a new structure on the Kiener Garages.





And there is also one other point working against 6th as the "better" choice than 7th street: 7th connects to the Ballpark Village and the growing south of Market area for downtown (it generally has better metrolink access).

I also agree that 6th street has potential (and acknowledge it has a long way to go). The crux of the matter is its geographic location as the most likely connection between the activities around the ball park, through Kiener and the Mall, to the retail, residences, and convention space around Washington Ave. and then out to Laclede's Landing and the new casino. On either side of 6th, you have 7th and Broadway which are each more important traffic streets (running in opposite directions), so 6th Street could be the much more pedestrian friendly street. They should totally redo 6th taking out at least 1 lane of traffic (although I would be fine taking out all traffic) to expand the sidewalks and add inviting plantings and whatnot to clearly demarcate 6th as the north/south path for pedestrians moving through the city. Saint Louis has always had a north/south problem. The east/west streets (Market, Washington) are streets that invite people to take a stroll down them thus connecting the Union Stations and City Museums of the west to the activities of the east part of downtown. But, at least in my mind, there is not a similar street that runs north/south (closest is probably Broadway). I think 6th could be that street if it were to become a much more pedestrian oriented street with street level retail and more urban landscaping. Perhaps we should rename it though.

SoulardD wrote:Speaking of DT's population, when does everyone think it'll be enough to support things like retail, entertainment, etc. that other towns are able to support without us questioning whether people from the county will drive in? 15,000, 20,000, 25,000? Also, when are the estimated dates that downtown will hit these numbers?

Well there are 9,602 people living in Richmond Heights (2000 Census) and they have the Galleria. Downtown has 398 more people...we should be good.

DeBaliviere wrote:

stlmike wrote:That said, they are going to need to spruce that street up a great deal. This, I think, would be a great opportunity to do something about that surface lot at 6th and Olive. It REALLY needs to be filled now.

I agree on both counts, and I especially hate that parking lot. The intersection of 6th and Locust is currently almost completely dead - when life returns to St. Louis Centre/Concord and the Mercantile Library, along with (hopefully) the ground floor of the Centre garage (the old Woolworth's), it will improve significantly.

Since I work at that corner, I think about that a lot... I've always thought a Borders on the corner would do great, especially with all the lunch foot traffic. Then, put some condos/apartments on a few floors above it.



I also thought row house (5 stories or so) would work well there. It would bring some life to this part of DT aft 5 and on the weekeends

A giant sore such as Borders could easily be distributed by independent music stores, books stores and coffee shops that would give a greater vibrance to the city by filling out the empty storefronts. The smaller shops also keep the people close to the streets versus inside a mega structure with an attached parking garage where the customers never see the light of day other that through a window. A perfect example is the Loop. If there where a Borders or any other big box on the street do you think that there would still be all the pedestrian traffic that there is now

I agree. But let's see how many independents would be able to afford the rent in a developments at that corner... It's not like there are any local business owners beating down the door of the leasing office of teh Millenium Building asking if they can move in to the perfectly good empty storefronts on Sixth next to Starbucks. Or any of the possible places along Olive between sixth and eleventh... Which independent music stores or bookstores, exactly, would they be running out of downtown? Which cofffee shops? Starbuck's? There is a reason Apop and Tension Head did not try and open shop DT. I only like Border's for loitering, frankly. I always buy my music from Vintage Vinyl (if not directly from bands at shows ). But do not think that a big name like that is not important (along with nuturing local businesses) to developing a well rounded diverse retail experience.

Downtown STL Fan wrote:

TimeForGuinness wrote:

SoulardD wrote:Speaking of DT's population, when does everyone think it'll be enough to support things like retail, entertainment, etc. that other towns are able to support without us questioning whether people from the county will drive in? 15,000, 20,000, 25,000? Also, when are the estimated dates that downtown will hit these numbers?

Well there are 9,602 people living in Richmond Heights (2000 Census) and they have the Galleria. Downtown has 398 more people...we should be good.

I thought I read somewhere recently that we now had about 13,000 people living downtown. Is that not correct?

oh, well then we have people to spare...



(plus the millions that come each year to see the Arch)





I think MX and BPV will be fine.

Downtown sales and retail will not just be dependent on the people who live in downtown you have to look at tourists, and also the thousands of people who work downtown, and thousands of people who live in surounding areas. I we will be ok.

US Bank is a public plaza? Really?



Why is this remaining? Can't those who did it admit it was a big mistake and build something?

ArchMadness wrote:Looking at that site plan all I can think about is the Ambassador bldg. Does this make me an emo kid if I have a tear running down my face.



http://www.builtstlouis.net/ambassador02.html

only if you painted it on with an eyeliner pencil