urbanSTL

stlterp wrote: ...The neighborhood wants to avoid the issues with Lafayette Walk that stem from a lot of it being turned against the prevailing street grid and thus creating a private neighborhood instead of being a part of the larger neighborhood...

I am buying at Lafayette Walk and don't understand why people don't understand the site plan. The site (formerly an ugly surface lot for truck storage) only connects with the street grid on Mississippi and Chouteau. The gas station and M Lofts building prevent it from connecting with the historic street grid. Anyone who has a problem with the development should visit the display and see the units in the back of the project. The new courtyard (which also serves as a fire lane) is charming and faces Vin de Set. I am curious to know what unrealistic/financially impossible project the curmudgeons in the neighborhood would have proposed for this site.

AvantStL wrote:

stlterp wrote: ...The neighborhood wants to avoid the issues with Lafayette Walk that stem from a lot of it being turned against the prevailing street grid and thus creating a private neighborhood instead of being a part of the larger neighborhood...

I am buying at Lafayette Walk and don't understand why people don't understand the site plan. The site (formerly an ugly surface lot for truck storage) only connects with the street grid on Mississippi and Chouteau. The gas station and M Lofts building prevent it from connecting with the historic street grid. Anyone who has a problem with the development should visit the display and see the units in the back of the project. The new courtyard (which also serves as a fire lane) is charming and faces Vin de Set. I am curious to know what unrealistic/financially impossible project the curmudgeons in the neighborhood would have proposed for this site.

If not for some of the curmudgeons in the neighborhood back in the 60s and 70s, there would be an interstate running through the area and no neighborhood to speak of...



It could have been possible to look at extending LaSalle toward the West, beyond Mississippi. It would have still dead-ended, but allowed for the orientation of some of the units to be E-W instead of 3 rows of N-S.



I do recognize that the area closer to Chouteau is of a different character, and fronting residential units onto Chouteau would be difficult. But, the walls of siding that you see driving down Chouteau are really ugly and unfortunate - and take away from the aesthetic appeal of the entire development. And the fact that things like private garbage collection are needed in an urban development really speaks for itself.



From what we have seen from site plan for the Praxair site development, those issues should not be as much of a concern. They are talking about running a wide public street between Missouri and McKay that would essentially be an extention of LaSalle, though not lined up with LaSalle on either end.

If not for some of the curmudgeons in the neighborhood back in the 60s and 70s, there would be an interstate running through the area and no neighborhood to speak of...

Huh? I seem to remember an Interstate or two that ARE in the neighborhood and took quite a number of buildings with them! Are you saying that the Interstate would have gone down Chouteau? Over Laf Sq Park? Sites like Lafayette Walk are difficult to build out. No one wants a superblock so what are the options? Row houses facing E/W may have been better as the frontage on Chouteau would have been more attractive. Anyone know why they went the current orientation?

Grover wrote:

If not for some of the curmudgeons in the neighborhood back in the 60s and 70s, there would be an interstate running through the area and no neighborhood to speak of...

Huh? I seem to remember an Interstate or two that ARE in the neighborhood and took quite a number of buildings with them! Are you saying that the Interstate would have gone down Chouteau? Over Laf Sq Park? Sites like Lafayette Walk are difficult to build out. No one wants a superblock so what are the options? Row houses facing E/W may have been better as the frontage on Chouteau would have been more attractive. Anyone know why they went the current orientation?

Yes - I-44 in particular took out a swatch on the edge of the neighborhood (along with many others on the south side.) However, there were also plans for a North-South Distributor highway as well that would have bisected the neighborhood and effectively ended rehab efforts. However, residents were able to get the neighborhood placed on the historic registry in the early 70s, and the highway was never built.

stlterp wrote:A few links of interest from the Comprehensive City plan from 1947. A few things may have changed by the 60s and 70s, but IIRF, this is similar to what was being talked about for the LS area.



http://stlouis.missouri.org/government/ ... tstra.html



Link to a map below. You'll probably have to download and open in a picture viewer and rotate it, but it gives you a pretty good sense...

http://stlouis.missouri.org/government/ ... late20.GIF

This plan would have been better IMO had it been followed. I-55 pretty much went where it was planned. But an Interstate along the rail yards would have kept Dogtown and Forest Park connected, not to mention FPSE. I-44 wouldn't have been so close to Lafayette Square and the area wouldn't be between three I's as it is now.

From MayorSlay.com...

Rothschild-Winzerling is proposing the $40+ million development of the former Praxair site on Chouteau and two adjacent properties as retail, office, townhomes and residential condominiums. According to those involved in the development, it is strongly supported by the Lafayette Square Restoration Committee. Phasing for the development, the amount of the TIF and the retail/office tenant mix will be negotiated with city staff prior to the scheduled public hearing. The development is requesting an $8.5 million TIF.

They are going to have residential condominiums? Thats a new one. Might be the first in the city.

TGE-ATW wrote:They are going to have residential condominiums? Thats a new one. Might be the first in the city.

The Lafayette Marquis has a picture of the site plan - it shows large retail buildings fronting Chouteau between Mackay and Missouri with parking in the rear. Townhomes will be built along Hickory and LaSalle, providing an extension of the existing neighborhood.

I noticed last week that Spirtas had mobilized construction equipment on site and sometime over the weekend or late last Friday demolition had begun.



Luckily I snapped a picture before the whole structure was leveled.

Now that GreenStreet has started the ball rolling what type of re-development should occur?
-Commercial?
-Residential?
-Mixed-Use?

Per the Lafayette Square Neighborhood-Urban Plan:

http://lafayettesqr.com/Development/Urb ... 20Plan.pdf

A Design Option was offered that included dividing the site roughly in half with the northernmost half becoming a mixed-use structure (retail below/residential above) with off-street/alley-accessed parking and the structure conforming to proper urban design standards (more or less). The southernmost half would be subdivided into new single family homes (similar to the majority of homes existing in the neighborhood already.



As a neighborhood resident (and next-door neighbor) I am ecstatic to see this 'engineering disaster memorial' meet its end but at the same time I hope it doesn't become another open parking lot for Paul and Wendy's restaurants in the neighborhood.

^Awesome! Thanks for the update.

Obviously, the plan on the Right above is pretty sweet and would be preferrable. I am not sure another park is needed a block away for Lafayette Park, however. Would love to see that be another block of neighborhood conforming houses instead.

How about run LaSalle to MacKay and put two rows of houses facing LaSalle and Hickory on that block and do the mixed-use facing Chouteau.

newstl2020 wrote:^Awesome! Thanks for the update.

Obviously, the plan on the Right above is pretty sweet and would be preferrable. I am not sure another park is needed a block away for Lafayette Park, however. Would love to see that be another block of neighborhood conforming houses instead.

The green space may be abit on the large size but there is a push in the neighborhood for an off-leash, enclosed dog park (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lafayett ... 7313391906 and personally, I think a location outside and separate from the Square Park would be ideal and provide the neighborhood with another public space and for an area of the neighborhood that would greatly benefit from neighborhood improvement.

Though, the other part of me thinks that (this currently vacant area) would be ideal for single family row homes.

quincunx wrote:How about run LaSalle to MacKay and put two rows of houses facing LaSalle and Hickory on that block and do the mixed-use facing Chouteau.

Wasn't that what Rothschild proposed several years ago?

^That's a great idea. As for a dog park, unfortunately there's no shortage of empty lots in Lafayette Square.

The proposed demo on Hickory got me thinking about this site. It seems crazy that more than eight years later, it's still vacant, especially considering how hot Lafayette Square is. I presume nothing is going on here?

I have always said, if I had money to burn that is where I would develop in the city. Seems like a guaranteed success with a good plan and some financing.

Scroll to page 6 for the 2007 site plan:

http://lafayettesquare.org/wp-content/u ... r-2007.pdf

debaliviere wrote:Scroll to page 6 for the 2007 site plan:

http://lafayettesquare.org/wp-content/u ... r-2007.pdf

The proposed demo is to allow for parking area re-configuration/expansion and developing an outdoor commons space for the residents of The Lofts at Lafayette.

Prior to me moving to Denver, I was working with the owner's representative of the Lofts on a proposal to do just this, though I was very clear about the process that would be involved in demo'ing a building in an NHD and the neighborhood's process for also allowing this to happen.

The same owner of the Lofts were also the one's previously trying to redevelop the Mop Building (late 2013) at the corner of Truman and Park (which failed to garner enough neighborhood support to win stat tax credits).

Can't wait to see what they come up with!

Pulte Homes Plans 64 Townhomes for Praxair Site in Lafayette Square

https://nextstl.com/2016/11/pulte-homes ... te-square/

https://www.pulte.com

https://www.pulte.com/homes/missouri/st-louis

^Hopefully this develops into something worthwhile!

On another note, does anyone know about the school building at Jefferson & Lafayette? Any history of development there?

Also, what's with the giant grassy lot between the highway ramps along Lafayette? The one you pass by as you leave Lafayette Square heading east. Any chance that will ever see development? It ruins the connectivity towards Soulard.

Highways tend to do that