Mindyhhhhh wrote:What do you all think is the best neighborhood in the city? One that is fairly safe, reasonably priced homes, and friendly neighborhood... To be honest,here is my plan ,and let me know if this is just a pipe dream guys. What I want to do is move back, rent place in Afton until i can get my kids in magnet schools, then buy a house in the city. In a couple of years I would like to buy apts.and fix them up and rent them out. I like Benton Park, but I have to find a neighborhood that is safe enough for the kids. Also I ain't real po, but we wont be able to afford any real expensive house. So I guess i am looking for a neighborhood that I can get a good deal, and safe.... If anyone has any advice on buying homes in the city, please let me know.

Wow... isn't that what just about everybody is looking for?



Seriously though, this idea that the way to make money is to "buy apts.and fix them up and rent them out." is not necessarily a bad one, if you actually do fix them up and then screen the tenants appropriately. Myself, I gave up on being a landlord for my downstairs apartment after some bad experiences.



Anyway, Benton Park is relative safe, I think, but the safer parts are the pricier parts. You get along Utah, it's still pretty rough, just like in BP West, Gravois Park, Dutchtown. Fox Park and McKinley Heights are a little better, but even they are still rough around the edges and the prices there have definitely gone up.



I think Tower Grove South (especially closer to the Shop N Save where houses are smaller and somewhat cheaper), Bevo Mill and Carondelet are the places to look for relatively safe blocks and reasonably priced houses. You get into 63118 (E of Grand, N of Meramec), the reality is the crime rates are much higher which will tend to drive down the rents you can get (assuming you don't want to do Section 8 ), but out in 63109 (W of Kingshighway generally) you will find very high prices and mostly very safe neighborhoods. But you pay for it.



Similarly, parts of TG South are extremely pricey, but then some blocks are considerably cheaper. All these neighborhoods experience some level of crime, it's true, but somewhat less than east of Grand.



At least that's my take on the question.



Personally, I'd look at Carondelet first in your situation. Not every block is great, but there's a lot of potential there. Then, probably, Bevo Mill and parts of TG South.

In case anyone is curious as to the numbers:



01/01/07 - 01/01/08

Neighborhood: North Hampton

Found Incident List

5 Robbery

2 Serious Assault

31 Burglary

56 Theft

20 Stolen Autos

6 Domestic Assault

12 Minor Assault

1 Weapons

9 Drugs

14 Peace Disturbances



01/01/2007 - 01/01/2008

Selected Area:

Neighborhood: Forest Park S.E.

Found Incident List

2 Murder

1 Sexual Assault

15 Robbery

4 Serious Assault

23 Burglary

77 Theft

21 Stolen Autos

14 Domestic Assault

21 Minor Assault

5 Weapons

6 Drugs

13 Peace Disturbances



01/01/07 - 01/01/08

Selected Area:

Neighborhood: The Hill

Found Incident List

1 Sexual Assault

1 Robbery

2 Serious Assault

8 Burglary

47 Theft

15 Stolen Autos

16 Minor Assault

19 Drugs

6 Peace Disturbances

1 Kidnapping



01/01/07 - 01/01/08

Selected Area:

Neighborhood: Lafayette Square

Found Incident List

6 Robbery

1 Serious Assault

1 Burglary

74 Theft

19 Stolen Autos

3 Domestic Assault

1 Weapons

13 Peace Disturbances

drunkrusski wrote:

brickandmortar wrote:^Tower Grove South ain't too far from where you live buddy. I never knew criminals magically stopped at Kingshighway.

Well, considering the areas that I live in and listed have cop stations and sub-stations, as well as regular patrols that I have not seen in TG, that probably makes it safer, don't you think?



Also, the fact that my neighbors are mostly middle-class tends to help. And that there are older women that just sit and watch the street all day (meaning if something happens they call the cops, whether that's good or bad).



The lady asked for my opinion, I gave it to her. If you disagree that's fine and dandy. Maybe you should recommend for her to North City or East Saint Louis. And while you are at it, why don't you move over there as well. Those areas are up and coming so you should do just fine.



Edit:

Grove, how are those statistics relevant? I only mentioned two of those neighborhoods, and the ones that you would need to compare to (TG) isn't even given.



Anyway, those statistics don't even matter or mean anything since you have to look at a longer period of time (several years not just one), as well as looking at percentage per population, not just numbers.

OK - first, you see the patrols in your neighborhood because you live there. I live east of Kingshighway and we have bike patrols, BJC/WU security and city police. They have a real presence. I'm not as familiar with other neighborhoods.



And you don't have to look at a longer period of time. You're living in your neighborhood now, not in 2005. Statistics are what they are - they certainly do not tell the whole story, but they do say something. Serious crime is present in all these neighborhoods while differences are marginal.



Look - I think that your neighborhood is safer than the Tower Grove neighborhoods and my neighborhood (FPSE), but very marginally so. It's not logical/fair/sane to say that someone's crazy to live with children east of Kingshighway, but that other nearby neighborhoods are great. There are no less than 10 children that live on the 4400 block of Gibson and there's no reason they should move.



In my case, neither my wife nor I have to drive to get to work/school and when we have a child we won't have to drive to daycare or school. If we lived in North Hampton we would be driving daily - that introduces more risk in our lives. I'm just pointing out that it's a balacing act and there's no right answer.

fyi,

Leading causes of Death for children 1-14



1) Accidents (mostly motor vehicle collisions)

2) Cancer

3) Congenital anomolies

4) Homicide

5) Heart disease

6-tie) Pulmonary disease

6-tie) Suicide



Looks like if safety is a big concern for your children, keep them out of cars.



another comment: In my suburban grade school, the principal was found to be a child molester. Many crimes against children are inflicted by relatives and other trusted individuals. Choosing a neighborhood based on proximity to Kingshighway does not mitigate this major risk.



Bottom line is this: you can live East of Kingshighway, drive minimally, obtain routine health care for your child, and your child may very well be in a much safer environment than suburban kids. I do understand that violent crime in urban areas is a problem; however, if you look at modifiable risk factors in your child's safety, the risk difference between East vs West of Kingshighway is minimal.

I would also like to learn more about Carondelet. I've been there before but last weekend I made a real point to explore it more and loved the area! And what about the neighborhood north of it too? The name escapes me. Pleasent Ridge? Pleasent Park? Something like that.



And I've got to say, suggesting South St. Louis isn't even comparable to suggesting East St. Louis. To do so is just plain naive.

drunkrusski wrote:

Grover wrote:


OK - first, you see the patrols in your neighborhood because you live there. I live east of Kingshighway and we have bike patrols, BJC/WU security and city police. They have a real presence. I'm not as familiar with other neighborhoods.

How do you know I have not lived in other neighborhoods in the City? And I have quiet a few friends that rehab and live in the area as well...

And you don't have to look at a longer period of time. You're living in your neighborhood now, not in 2005. Statistics are what they are - they certainly do not tell the whole story, but they do say something. Serious crime is present in all these neighborhoods while differences are marginal.

Anyone that knows ANYTHING about statistics knows that you need a large sample of data before stats become relevant. You give the WRONG NEIGHBORHOODS, you don't give a POPULATION BASIS of the neighborhoods, nor did you give SUFFICIENT DATA to make any kind of reasonable conclusion.

Look - I think that your neighborhood is safer than the Tower Grove neighborhoods and my neighborhood (FPSE), but very marginally so. It's not logical/fair/sane to say that someone's crazy to live with children east of Kingshighway, but that other nearby neighborhoods are great. There are no less than 10 children that live on the 4400 block of Gibson and there's no reason they should move.

"The area is up and coming and getting better, but still not a place to have kids, imo"

This is my exact quote. No mention of crazy anywhere. Just expressing my opinion that if I had kids, I would not live there. Nor I didn't say there are no children that live there.

In my case, neither my wife nor I have to drive to get to work/school and when we have a child we won't have to drive to daycare or school. If we lived in North Hampton we would be driving daily - that introduces more risk in our lives. I'm just pointing out that it's a balacing act and there's no right answer.

The person SPECIFICALLY asked about SAFETY. It is assumed she meant CRIME. No other factors.

I don't know if you have lived in other neighborhoods. I simply said that you notice the patrols in your neighborhood because you live there. I agree with everything you say regarding statistics. The point made, again, is that serious crime exists throughout the city, slightly more so in some places, slightly less so in others, but there are no clear distinctions from one side of a street to another. It's disingenuous to say that one neighborhood is safe while another is not. Saying "if I had kids I wouldn't live there" and saying that a place is "no place to have kids" are different things and shows a lack of maturity and respect. I understand your assumption, my point is that there are more factors that determine safety than just crime.



Crime and safety are serious concerns in St. Louis and elsewhere, but no one is well served by statements that do not seek to clarify reality and lead to greater understanding. This issue, more than just about any other, needs to be kept in perspective.



As an aside, I hope that people on this forum can continue to talk about issues instead of being so sensitive. Every comment seems to illicit a response much more focused on being misquoted than making a point.

^ thanks - I should have been more succinct.