Interesting meeting last night. Get a load of this:
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/lim ... evelopment
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/lim ... evelopment
Thought I’d share what was posted on the Wydown-Skinker NextDoor page...
Development of the parking lot at the intersection of Wydown & Hanley
Subject: Concerns about the Savoy Development (intersection of Hanley/Wydown)
To Our Neighbors:
The City of Clayton is considering the sale of the Hanley/Wydown parking lot to Savoy Properties. Savoy is proposing a 4-story building with a rooftop deck housing 15 condominium units. We are a group of neighboring residents and local businesses voicing our concerns about the proposal to City Leaders.
We support reasonable development on this property, but we feel that this particular proposal has several design elements that would be problematic for our neighborhood. In summary, we have 4 main concerns:
1. Rezoning to overbuild on the property: Savoy would seek rezoning to build a building far larger than what the lot can accommodate. Savoy is proposing a 4+ story building with a rooftop deck in an area that is currently zoned for a maximum of three stories. Further, the proposal would remove currently required setbacks between the building and Hanley Rd.
2. Parking that puts local businesses at risk: Parking plans, short term and long term, will destroy our local businesses. Highly desirable restaurants like I Fratellini and Bar Les Freres will lose significant business during 18+ months of construction, and the new parking structure removes the neighborhood charm core to the character of these restaurants. Losing these businesses would devastate what has become an incredibly vibrant area.
3. Increased traffic congestion: Parking access will enter/exit from Hanley Rd, dramatically increasing traffic congestion, disproportionately impacting nearby residents.
4. Reduced green space: The proposed plan removes all green space and trees from a prominent corner lot and adds very little retail space (<20% of the first floor).
Additionally, we believe there is no pressing need for the City to divest a highly utilized asset (the parking lot) unless the planned attached to the sale is a net benefit for neighborhood. As currently proposed, this plan has the potential to harm both neighboring businesses as well as nearby residential properties. Overall, we see the potential for the proposed Savoy development to significantly detract from our neighborhood with little to no upside for the City or its residents.
Additional details about our concerns and the proposed development are outlined below.
Sincerely,
Concerned Neighbors of the Proposed Savoy development
Savoy Development Details:
The proposed new condo complex development will reside at the SE corner of Wydown and Hanley Rd. The development is proposed for an area that encompasses the city parking lot as well as 2 neighboring apartment buildings.
(The area outlined in red is the site for the Savoy development)
The basics of the plan include the following:
• 100,000+ sq ft building
• 4+ stories tall from the Hanley grade (the highest point of the lot);
• 15 condo units
• 100 parking spaces (59 dedicated for condo units, remaining for public parking and retail)
• Basement parking entry/exit onto Wydown; 1st floor parking entry/exit onto Hanley Rd
• 20% of the first floor (~6,000 sq ft; comparable to the size of Starbucks) would be retail space
Additional Detail: https://www.claytonmo.gov/Home/Componen ... rash=False
(beginning on page 162)
City Approval Process for Savoy Development:
The approval process for the Savoy contract has already begun. It became public on October 18th, when the Board of Alderman announced that the contract would be voted on at its next meeting October 22, 2019. At this stage the City’s Economic Development has already negotiated to sell the property to Savoy for $225,000. To fully approve the Savoy Development, the additional following steps need to occur:
1. The Mayor and the Board of Aldermen vote to approve the contract. This vote will be part of a meeting open to the public. This is scheduled for Oct. 22nd.
2. The Plan Commission reviews the request to rezone the property. Should Step #1 be approved, the developer would have to submit a request to rezone the four lots to remove height and setback restrictions that currently exist. There will be at least one public meeting to discuss this request. This will be our second opportunity to voice concerns formally.
3. Board of Aldermen approval of request to rezone. The Plan Commission makes a recommendation to the Board on whether to grant or deny the request to rezone. Although the Board ultimately has the final authority to decide, they usually follow the Plan Commission’s recommendation. This approval occurs as part of the agenda of a standard Board of Alderman meeting. This is a public meet and offers us our final opportunity to voice concerns.
Predictable. Thoughts?
Development of the parking lot at the intersection of Wydown & Hanley
Subject: Concerns about the Savoy Development (intersection of Hanley/Wydown)
To Our Neighbors:
The City of Clayton is considering the sale of the Hanley/Wydown parking lot to Savoy Properties. Savoy is proposing a 4-story building with a rooftop deck housing 15 condominium units. We are a group of neighboring residents and local businesses voicing our concerns about the proposal to City Leaders.
We support reasonable development on this property, but we feel that this particular proposal has several design elements that would be problematic for our neighborhood. In summary, we have 4 main concerns:
1. Rezoning to overbuild on the property: Savoy would seek rezoning to build a building far larger than what the lot can accommodate. Savoy is proposing a 4+ story building with a rooftop deck in an area that is currently zoned for a maximum of three stories. Further, the proposal would remove currently required setbacks between the building and Hanley Rd.
2. Parking that puts local businesses at risk: Parking plans, short term and long term, will destroy our local businesses. Highly desirable restaurants like I Fratellini and Bar Les Freres will lose significant business during 18+ months of construction, and the new parking structure removes the neighborhood charm core to the character of these restaurants. Losing these businesses would devastate what has become an incredibly vibrant area.
3. Increased traffic congestion: Parking access will enter/exit from Hanley Rd, dramatically increasing traffic congestion, disproportionately impacting nearby residents.
4. Reduced green space: The proposed plan removes all green space and trees from a prominent corner lot and adds very little retail space (<20% of the first floor).
Additionally, we believe there is no pressing need for the City to divest a highly utilized asset (the parking lot) unless the planned attached to the sale is a net benefit for neighborhood. As currently proposed, this plan has the potential to harm both neighboring businesses as well as nearby residential properties. Overall, we see the potential for the proposed Savoy development to significantly detract from our neighborhood with little to no upside for the City or its residents.
Additional details about our concerns and the proposed development are outlined below.
Sincerely,
Concerned Neighbors of the Proposed Savoy development
Savoy Development Details:
The proposed new condo complex development will reside at the SE corner of Wydown and Hanley Rd. The development is proposed for an area that encompasses the city parking lot as well as 2 neighboring apartment buildings.
(The area outlined in red is the site for the Savoy development)
The basics of the plan include the following:
• 100,000+ sq ft building
• 4+ stories tall from the Hanley grade (the highest point of the lot);
• 15 condo units
• 100 parking spaces (59 dedicated for condo units, remaining for public parking and retail)
• Basement parking entry/exit onto Wydown; 1st floor parking entry/exit onto Hanley Rd
• 20% of the first floor (~6,000 sq ft; comparable to the size of Starbucks) would be retail space
Additional Detail: https://www.claytonmo.gov/Home/Componen ... rash=False
(beginning on page 162)
City Approval Process for Savoy Development:
The approval process for the Savoy contract has already begun. It became public on October 18th, when the Board of Alderman announced that the contract would be voted on at its next meeting October 22, 2019. At this stage the City’s Economic Development has already negotiated to sell the property to Savoy for $225,000. To fully approve the Savoy Development, the additional following steps need to occur:
1. The Mayor and the Board of Aldermen vote to approve the contract. This vote will be part of a meeting open to the public. This is scheduled for Oct. 22nd.
2. The Plan Commission reviews the request to rezone the property. Should Step #1 be approved, the developer would have to submit a request to rezone the four lots to remove height and setback restrictions that currently exist. There will be at least one public meeting to discuss this request. This will be our second opportunity to voice concerns formally.
3. Board of Aldermen approval of request to rezone. The Plan Commission makes a recommendation to the Board on whether to grant or deny the request to rezone. Although the Board ultimately has the final authority to decide, they usually follow the Plan Commission’s recommendation. This approval occurs as part of the agenda of a standard Board of Alderman meeting. This is a public meet and offers us our final opportunity to voice concerns.
Predictable. Thoughts?
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Oh sorry, that was me banging my head against the keyboard.
Oh sorry, that was me banging my head against the keyboard.
I found it odd that nextSTL Twitter was calling for nimbys to unite against it.
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I was at the meeting last night if anyone has any questions.
Sounded like sarcasm to mejshank83 wrote:I found it odd that nextSTL Twitter was calling for nimbys to unite against it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Details please! Did any residents or business owners speak in support of the proposal? Did it pass? What’s the step in the process?
Thanks for the offer Moorlander. I guess we’ve now seen the NIMBY opening volleys. Did anyone speak in support of the project? Any sense of where the school board would land on this as the buck seems to stop with them on these matters in Clayton?
Wow. I read all of the comments on the petition website, and not a single one was in support. How can that be? Since this building is so much smaller than the last proposal, I thought it would get be generally well received.
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I (thankfully) didn't read too many of the comments, but I think the comment that irritated me the most of the ones I did see was "This is not necessary for Clayton or the metro area".
Why is this absolute fetish for parking lots a thing? I'm not understanding how a parking lot "adds more character to the neighborhood" than a pretty decently designed building. The thought processes of NIMBYs boggles my mind.
Why is this absolute fetish for parking lots a thing? I'm not understanding how a parking lot "adds more character to the neighborhood" than a pretty decently designed building. The thought processes of NIMBYs boggles my mind.
They want it at three stories. They talk about setback from Hanley. This intersection is built right up to Hanley. North side of Wydown is set back. I think the site plan looks great. Seems like a trivial pursuit when available public parking will increase overall. Not to mention sheltered public parking.
"This is not necessary for Clayton or the metro area".
I suspect the person who said this would take offense if someone told them that their domicile wasn't necessary for Clayton or the metro area.
I suspect the person who said this would take offense if someone told them that their domicile wasn't necessary for Clayton or the metro area.
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So have the NIMBYs basically already killed this project?
I think this project looks fantastic, and is the kind of project I'd want in the neighborhood if I lived in the Moorlands.
I think this project looks fantastic, and is the kind of project I'd want in the neighborhood if I lived in the Moorlands.
Will someone please tell the neighbors that "THIS PROJECT WILL PROVIDE MORE PUBLIC PARKING SPACES THAN NOW EXIST!!!!!!"
But there will be no public parking during construction and the entrance will be off Hanley instead of Wydown. Left turns to and from I can see will be more high stakes on Hanley than on Wydown. Accommodating cars lead to such far from optimal outcomes.
^ The developer has agreed to provide 27 spaces in the Central Christian School garage. Not ideal I suppose, but I think it's a worthwhile trade off for replacing a surface lot, though I'm not a nimby lol.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 8b800.htmlAnd Savoy’s John Pennington said the developer would, during construction, provide 27 spaces of public parking at standard city rates in a garage affiliated with the Central Christian School at the end of Forest Court.
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This meeting was doomed from the start. Neither the city nor the developer were properly prepared for this meeting and proper notice of the meeting was poorly communicated to adjacent property owners. As a result, prior to the meeting starting It was decided by to postpone the vote.
Keep in mind, these types of meeting don't typically draw supporters although I can recall 3 parties did speak in support. (With two of them being the two property owners on Wydown between the project and Forest Ct).
A few take aways:
1. This is the 4th rendering and will not be the last. This design will never be built. You can take that to the bank.
2. Parking really is tight at this corner. Especially summer evenings and Thursday-Sunday evenings year round. Zoe Robinson has build a mini empire of nationally acclaimed restaurants at this corner and her concerns about lack of parking during construction are real. Akar and Peno are quite successful too. If customers find it difficult to park they'll go elsewhere and may never return.
Just prior to the meeting Savoy came to an agreement with Central Xian School to utilize their nearby garage to provide construction and 27 public parking spots for patrons during construction. This did not satisfy Zoe and caused concerns to current Forest Ct residents about traffic and more drivers going the wrong way on Bemis Way, a 1 way street. One solution, which was painfully absent from discussion, was to have a central valet for the commercial district, subsidized by the developer, where at peek times only the Valet would utilize Forest Ct. and Central School parking.
3. Traffic, parking, and height concerns were rampant. As much as I try to respect everyones opinion and understand that each individual is just trying their best to protect their own interests and investments I find some of the comments, like those on the petition, real head scratchers.
This was not discussed at the meeting but the price point for these condos will be in the ballpark of ~$2million.
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I understand this isn't how this works, but it seems the developer should head West towards the CWE.
I mean, we can all see how traffic will be dramatically increased when you add (checks notes)...15 residential units. How can Clayton be expected to provide the infrastructure to support an additional 30 people!
I'd wager a heavy amount of money that the owner of the restaurants is the one driving the nimby bus. I don't blame her if she thinks it will negatively affect her business, but I'd hope that the people on the council recognize the context of the protest. If their decisions are driven solely by the neighborhood response, they will never build anything on that lot unless someone proposes another level of free parking.
I'd wager a heavy amount of money that the owner of the restaurants is the one driving the nimby bus. I don't blame her if she thinks it will negatively affect her business, but I'd hope that the people on the council recognize the context of the protest. If their decisions are driven solely by the neighborhood response, they will never build anything on that lot unless someone proposes another level of free parking.
I don’t think that’s fair to Zoe Robinson. There is a whole cohort of people that are passionately against any significant (if you can call 4 stories and 15 units significant) development on that parking lot. You really can’t pin it on her. These folks have heir own fears and motivations. If anything she can take a back seat and let the case be made for her without having to get too public about it.
Probably valid. Neighbors in Clayton are probably the most difficult to deal with for any developer this side of Ladue/Frontenac, so let them break out their usual pitchforks. Like I said before, if I was in Zoe's shoes and I thought it would hurt my business, I'd be protesting it too so I wouldn't blame her.
Argument (4) to maintain "greenspace" is obviously ridiculous since it's a parking lot. Argument (2) is ridiculous since the parking is being replaced by more parking. But I just want to point something out about the main points of arguments (1) and (3), which are:
(1) The proposal at "4+" stories is currently above the zoned maximum of three stories.
(1) The proposal would remove currently required setbacks between the building and Hanley Rd
(3) It will create too much traffic
There is another recently constructed condo building comprised of about 15 units (14 in this case), with a smaller setback than its neighbor and that is "4+" stories (as the petitioner likes to say) within 100 yards of this proposal! It's called 622 Forest Court. So, all of these arguments about overcrowding, losing the character of the neighborhood (622 is in the actual neighborhood, not on Hanley), creating too much traffic and it destroying their property value are not only ridiculous on their face, but refuted by the fact that there is already just such a building and no ones life has been ruined by it.
(1) The proposal at "4+" stories is currently above the zoned maximum of three stories.
(1) The proposal would remove currently required setbacks between the building and Hanley Rd
(3) It will create too much traffic
There is another recently constructed condo building comprised of about 15 units (14 in this case), with a smaller setback than its neighbor and that is "4+" stories (as the petitioner likes to say) within 100 yards of this proposal! It's called 622 Forest Court. So, all of these arguments about overcrowding, losing the character of the neighborhood (622 is in the actual neighborhood, not on Hanley), creating too much traffic and it destroying their property value are not only ridiculous on their face, but refuted by the fact that there is already just such a building and no ones life has been ruined by it.
Did anyone make it to the Clayton BOA meeting last night? This project was on the agenda. I’m sure the BANANA squad showed up. I wanted to go but couldn’t make it. If anyone has any intel, please give us the scoop!
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The BOA decided to pass on this project. I think they made the right decision.
The city of Clayton is commissioning a City wife plan to be completed by fall 2020 and they decided it was best to wait until then to determine what’s best for the site.
The city of Clayton is commissioning a City wife plan to be completed by fall 2020 and they decided it was best to wait until then to determine what’s best for the site.
Thanks for the update. No matter what the citywide plan designates as appropriate for that site, it won't make a bit of difference to the the majority of NIMBYs who signed the petition opposing the Beacon proposal. They're simply against development on that site, period. Because no matter what ultimately gets built there, it will require actual construction, which might be a temporary inconvenience to them and therefore unacceptable.moorlander wrote: ↑Dec 11, 2019The BOA decided to pass on this project. I think they made the right decision.
The city of Clayton is commissioning a City wife plan to be completed by fall 2020 and they decided it was best to wait until then to determine what’s best for the site.