The Barton in Clayton: 8500 Maryland Mixed Use

moorlander · PostOct 14, 2014#12014-10-14T18:01+00:00

CONCEPTUAL REVIEW

A. *Mixed-Use Development
8500 Maryland Avenue
Consideration of a request by David Braswell, owner under contract, for conceptual review of a proposed mixed-use project containing first floor retail and 229 rental apartment units.

wabash · PostOct 14, 2014#22014-10-14T19:07+00:00

Guess I'll move this over here then. Has anyone heard anything on this?

wabash wrote:
moorlander wrote:8500 Maryland Avenue... a proposed mixed-use project containing first floor retail and 229 rental apartment units.
Whoa. Interesting. That's a lot of units. Based on the size of that lot, my assumption is that it would be more of a mid-rise apartment building like the Mansions on the Plaza (222 units), Vanguard Apartments (200 units), or 3949 Apartments on Lindell (197 units). Looking forward to hearing more. I particularly like the first floor retail part.

moorlander · PostOct 14, 2014#32014-10-14T19:41+00:00

The site is 2.5 acre site is currently owned by Brown Shoe and contains a vacant 65k sq foot office building. The new structure will be 5 stories over 2 stories of self contained parking with retail and live/work spaces facing Maryland.

The builiding facade would be primarily brick with the upper floors stucco. Portions of the parking garage would be stained concrete.

PostOct 14, 2014#42014-10-14T19:45+00:00

I guess we know Covington's next move with the failure of the Optimist site.

STLEnginerd · PostOct 14, 2014#52014-10-14T19:46+00:00

Retail on a dead end street? Seems like a pretty poor choice for retail. They might be able to pull off some low turnover typr retail but I think I'd either go with a purely residential midrise (a mix of condos and apartments), or if anything maybe office space for services like lawyers, family doctor or dental practices, architechtural or design services, etc. Even if you could put something in there which would draw more people in like a restaurunt, bar or clothing retailer, would you really want to considering it proximity to a school on a dead end street? And even if you did want to is it the worth the battle you are going to have with the NIMBY's. if any one thing the reception the crossing got is bad try building high traffic retail next to a school...

EDIT looking at the renderings I don't even see a retail space, which I think is a smart move in this case.

moorlander · PostOct 14, 2014#62014-10-14T19:51+00:00

I updated with more info. The office building would come down and retail would line Maryland Ave only.

It's unfortunate the residential couldn't be tied in with a Brown Shoe expansion like what was tossed around a few years back.

stlien · PostOct 14, 2014#72014-10-14T20:58+00:00

This will be awesome.

rbb · PostOct 14, 2014#82014-10-14T21:05+00:00

The building to be torn down is nothing special architecturally. Unfortunately neither is the proposed replacement if the rendering above is in any way accurate. Nice massing, but it looks entirely generic; like any number of other proposed mid-rise develpments around town.

I hope Clayton encourages this development, but I hope they hold them to a higher standard of design before green-lighting construction.

moorlander · PostOct 14, 2014#92014-10-14T21:19+00:00

More info here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j80mum13lpv3 ... s.pdf?dl=0

roger wyoming II · PostOct 14, 2014#102014-10-14T22:08+00:00

Anyone have an update on the massive project planned for that area just south of 40 by McKnight? Seems like while the Central Corridor in the Lou is getting some action, it is being passed by with all these projects outside the limits. I'm concerned about our demand curve.

wabash · PostOct 14, 2014#112014-10-14T22:21+00:00

Except for its slight asymmetry the Maryland elevation isn't bad. And that's really the only part of the building that will be visible from anywhere. Hopefully this one gets built.

quincunx · PostOct 15, 2014#122014-10-15T00:45+00:00

It looks like three of the four retail spaces are attached to an apt. Am I seeing that right?

Also will a bathroom in a new apt ever have a window ever again?

Will this be concrete for cars and wood for people?

mmreid · PostOct 15, 2014#132014-10-15T16:45+00:00

Wow, that is a lot of units. Not a place I would've expected to see so much residential go but I think it would do quite well. It's also nice to see that the plans show a connection to the recently built GRG pathway behind the proposed building.

It's amazing to watch the transformation that has occurred around here with the redevelopment of the colonial marketplace across the street and the million dollar homes replacing ranches just north on Gay Ave.

RedOctober · PostOct 15, 2014#142014-10-15T16:59+00:00

They mentioned that this particular development has nothing to do with the failed proposed 14 story apartment in the CWE. Im wondering how come this won't need tax abatement couldn't they of done the same in the CWE without a handout or no? Clayton is HOT right now. My opinion while its nice to see high-rises in Clayton ,CWE is far more superior of the two. CWE alone has more of a big city appeal and is the major focal point of the most diverse area in the entire region. In all due diligence CWE will succeed

framer · PostNov 12, 2014#152014-11-12T17:12+00:00

"This is a gateway to Clayton. Your building should be art. The design is tired, we have seen it before. We want people to say this is cool, but I don't get that with this"

- Sally Cohn, Clayton Planning Commission.

http://www.westendword.com/Articles-Cla ... z3IsKTGzv3

wabash · PostNov 12, 2014#162014-11-12T17:37+00:00

framer wrote:"This is a gateway to Clayton. Your building should be art. The design is tired, we have seen it before. We want people to say this is cool, but I don't get that with this"

- Sally Cohn, Clayton Planning Commission.

http://www.westendword.com/Articles-Cla ... z3IsKTGzv3

It wouldn't be a Clayton project unless there was some NIMBY pushback. Whether in CWE or Clayton, Covington can't seem to catch a break.

A significant redesign could be tough here, since VE Design doesn't appear to venture far from conservative quasi-faux-historic (aka bland suburban) designs.

quincunx · PostNov 12, 2014#172014-11-12T18:50+00:00

Maybe with more people living in Clayton this "need" won't arise?

Maryland Avenue becomes Ladue Road near the property site and provides access to Interstate 170. Commission Chairman Steve Lichtenfeld questioned whether the project would create a problem should the road ever need to be widened. Braswell said that Covington would examine the proposed setback along Maryland.

wabash · PostNov 12, 2014#182014-11-12T19:18+00:00

Requesting that projects accommodate road expansions that aren't even proposed yet? Seriously? There is a drive-thru bank next door, a strip mall across the street, and an empty parking lot half a block east. But I guess there are still more and better ways to alienate pedestrians.

Do they want a charming, attractive "gateway" to their Downtown? Or something setback so that a six lane road can barrel through? If they're going to demand better design, they should hold themselves to the same standard.

Presbyterian · PostNov 13, 2014#192014-11-13T00:12+00:00

framer wrote:"This is a gateway to Clayton. Your building should be art. The design is tired, we have seen it before. We want people to say this is cool, but I don't get that with this"

- Sally Cohn, Clayton Planning Commission.

http://www.westendword.com/Articles-Cla ... z3IsKTGzv3

Yeah... I think I probably agree with him. The density is good, but the design leaves lots of room for improvement.

rbb · PostNov 13, 2014#202014-11-13T17:21+00:00

wabash wrote:
framer wrote:"This is a gateway to Clayton. Your building should be art. The design is tired, we have seen it before. We want people to say this is cool, but I don't get that with this"

- Sally Cohn, Clayton Planning Commission.

http://www.westendword.com/Articles-Cla ... z3IsKTGzv3
It wouldn't be a Clayton project unless there was some NIMBY pushback. Whether in CWE or Clayton, Covington can't seem to catch a break.

A significant redesign could be tough here, since VE Design doesn't appear to venture far from conservative quasi-faux-historic (aka bland suburban) designs.

This doesn't sound like NIMBY to me at all. This sounds like 'we want your building here but we want it to be better', which is a good thing IMO. It echos my earlier complaint of the cut-and-paste design, and I agree completely.

-RBB

PostNov 13, 2014#212014-11-13T17:22+00:00

quincunx wrote:Maybe with more people living in Clayton this "need" won't arise?

Maryland Avenue becomes Ladue Road near the property site and provides access to Interstate 170. Commission Chairman Steve Lichtenfeld questioned whether the project would create a problem should the road ever need to be widened. Braswell said that Covington would examine the proposed setback along Maryland.

This, on the other hand, sounds like someone who was born and raised in St. Louis County.

-RBB

framer · PostApr 10, 2015#222015-04-10T16:32+00:00

Initial approval has been given:

http://www.westendword.com/Articles-Cla ... z3WvOgGISt

wabash · PostApr 10, 2015#232015-04-10T17:41+00:00

The article doesn't mention it, but the new rendering - with all of its differentiated awnings/signage, makes it look like Vanguard is still planning on including retail facing Maryland. I know people get tired of seeing red brick - and this certainly is a conservative and uninteresting design - but I think it looks better than what they had mocked up before. Along with the added brick, what appears to be a faux-stone base and removal of the porticos in front of the stores help the project's curb appeal.

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moorlander · PostApr 24, 2015#242015-04-24T13:35+00:00

Per BJ article - Construcion scheduled to start later this year (2015).

EDIT: Must pass Plan Commision May 4 and BOA May 12

PostMay 08, 2015#252015-05-08T15:01+00:00

Next step:

Ordinance – To approve rezoning 8500 Maryland Avenue from Service District (S-1) and Maryland Gateway Overlay Zoning District to a Planned Unit Development District (PUD). (Bill No. 6491, Bill No. 6492)

· This is a public hearing to solicit input regarding a proposed rezoning and related Planned Unit Development (PUD) to be granted to Covington Realty Partners for a mixed-use development to be known as Vanguard Clayton at 8500 Maryland Avenue.