My first thought also. Like old college dorm. Or military barracks.
Same great comments once again.
One thing that crosses my mind is if hotel doesn't happen within Armory in the foreseeable future is not a necessarily a bad thing. Instead, getting a hotel tower as part of Foundry phase III/or Cortex East lot on Vande next to Foundry's phase II residential tower & office would be ideal. High visibility, next to greenway trestle w great pedestrian access to CORTEX/metrolink (once trestle built) and steady stream of transient occupiers who would most like find themselves at the Foundry's Food Hall or shops, entertainment.
As far as other hotel development catering to SSM/SLU medicine. Seems like some well placed and designed hotel(s) going into the Steelcote area on east side of Grand would be a good fit. Build our east side of Grand w a nice combination of hotel(s), small eateries/coffee shops, residential and throw in a top golf further down Chouteau for good measure. Plenty of time to develop Iron Hill property.
One thing that crosses my mind is if hotel doesn't happen within Armory in the foreseeable future is not a necessarily a bad thing. Instead, getting a hotel tower as part of Foundry phase III/or Cortex East lot on Vande next to Foundry's phase II residential tower & office would be ideal. High visibility, next to greenway trestle w great pedestrian access to CORTEX/metrolink (once trestle built) and steady stream of transient occupiers who would most like find themselves at the Foundry's Food Hall or shops, entertainment.
As far as other hotel development catering to SSM/SLU medicine. Seems like some well placed and designed hotel(s) going into the Steelcote area on east side of Grand would be a good fit. Build our east side of Grand w a nice combination of hotel(s), small eateries/coffee shops, residential and throw in a top golf further down Chouteau for good measure. Plenty of time to develop Iron Hill property.
I think the buildings will look fine when built. Once real sunlight and shadows show up on the buildings, they'll look fine. Of course there's nothing ground breaking in terms of design, but the height and hundreds of apartment units overpowers the simple design. I think the intention here is to let the Armory building shine and let these buildings be the buildings that are seen from greater distances and act as a beacon for the Armory District. I almost guarantee these will have some sort of light feature like Midtown 300 or the Element Hotel, which will make them stand out at night.pdm_ad wrote: ↑May 08, 2021^ They are rather bland, hopefully the design will be tweaked.
^^ Thanks for the updates on this and other projects Chris. This is an exciting time for Midtown and I am really looking forward to hearing about additional proposals.
I don't know too much about the additional proposals, but I know the developer. One of them I know very much about and that's the exception of the group. I got a pretty good feel for it, just don't know what to expect in terms of design. Based on what I've been told, I think it'll be decent at the street level but I doubt it exceeds 7-stories in height, which is fine.
I'm sure Pier Property Group has thought about a hotel in the Steelcote area for the reasons you mentioned. With Mill Creek Flats and Steelcote Crossing, you'll have 10,000sf of retail space and a space for a micro brewery/distillery. Any new building, since PPG owns several parcels in that area, may also bring additional retail/restaurant components, so a hotel wouldn't seem too crazy if it were proposed. However, I see a hotel doing better at the Iron Hill site or the Armory rather than the Foundry or Steelcote.dredger wrote: ↑May 08, 2021As far as other hotel development catering to SSM/SLU medicine. Seems like some well placed and designed hotel(s) going into the Steelcote area on east side of Grand would be a good fit. Build our east side of Grand w a nice combination of hotel(s), small eateries/coffee shops, residential and throw in a top golf further down Chouteau for good measure. Plenty of time to develop Iron Hill property.
Foundry already has the Element Hotel in a way. Steelcote will have whatever Iron Hill gets. The focus right now needs to be people and jobs along with things that bring people down for a day and keep them coming back (Movie Theater, Grocery Store, Bars, Restaurants, Top Golf, Rec Hall, etc). Make the area busy with those and then naturally a hotel can be proposed and built.
And it may just be a preference of mine, but the Desloge Building at SLU Hospital would make an awesome Art Deco/Gothic style hotel to serve the area. Get the right development team (developer and architect) involved and you can have something truly special.
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I can see the sense in that. I wonder if there's anything in particular they could do to draw the eye to the Armory? Of course, a good building riffing on the themes of the Armory would also be good. In either case, I'm glad to see additional proposals here and I wish the developer every success.chriss752 wrote: ↑May 09, 2021I think the intention here is to let the Armory building shine and let these buildings be the buildings that are seen from greater distances and act as a beacon for the Armory District.
Spotlighting, or whatever you call it where the lights shine up on the brick, like they originally intended to do would really help the Armory stand out at night. During the day, there's not much that you can do.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑May 10, 2021I can see the sense in that. I wonder if there's anything in particular they could do to draw the eye to the Armory? Of course, a good building riffing on the themes of the Armory would also be good. In either case, I'm glad to see additional proposals here and I wish the developer every success.chriss752 wrote: ↑May 09, 2021I think the intention here is to let the Armory building shine and let these buildings be the buildings that are seen from greater distances and act as a beacon for the Armory District.
My developer friend from out of state was contacted by a Cincy developer that has done student housing for slu (surrounding area) in order to pick up the Iron Hill development. He called and asked what was going on there and why the other developer left. The Cincy developer told him Slu didn't want any student housing in Iron Hill which is why they didn't want it (and it was a bigger project than they manage). I told him the other plans had a hotel, residential and the like. He mentioned that financing is really hard for Office Space and Hotel. Residential its pretty easy, which is why, I'm assuming there is only residential for this development. He said his hotels are only 30% occupied during the week (50ish on weekend) and that business travel has fundamentally changed over the past year, and he is skeptical it will return to anywhere near the same level pre-pandemic. Since zoom is much easier, the face to face stuff is only reserved for really important meetings. Looking at the area he took a pass at Iron Hill.
^ SLU not wanting any student housing there seems like a huge swing and miss.
Having said that, post-pandemic, it probably makes the most sense to rebuild the old street grid and start subdividing the lots to different developers. An Iron Hill style proposal with office, hotels, etc. is probably going to be tough to finance.
SLU should work with the city to regrade the site, rebuild a grid and then start selling off smaller parcels.
Having said that, post-pandemic, it probably makes the most sense to rebuild the old street grid and start subdividing the lots to different developers. An Iron Hill style proposal with office, hotels, etc. is probably going to be tough to finance.
SLU should work with the city to regrade the site, rebuild a grid and then start selling off smaller parcels.
I think the Armory will attract a lot more students, especially if the pedestrian connection under/above 64 is built prior to the completion of the residential towers. In this case, 520 apartments with a majority occupied by students would probably take a bite out of student housing demand in the area. Throw in the already existing student-oriented apartments nearby (Coronado, Verve, Continental Life, Midtown 300, Icon, Standard), I don't think Midtown needs many more student-oriented housing buildings off-campus.
The supply is adequate and each building offers a different type of living style for student residents. So it makes sense in a way why SLU wouldn't want student housing at Iron Hill. Their focus on wanting normal apartments makes sense considering it's further away from the campus and that they'd probably prefer if their students stayed close (within a few blocks) to the college.
The supply is adequate and each building offers a different type of living style for student residents. So it makes sense in a way why SLU wouldn't want student housing at Iron Hill. Their focus on wanting normal apartments makes sense considering it's further away from the campus and that they'd probably prefer if their students stayed close (within a few blocks) to the college.
There will be big changes to student housing and college campuses as well. Like everything else, there has been a huge shift to doing as much as possible online. Once that has been established, the trips to campus are going to be greatly reduced, maybe to as little as once or twice a week. So, there will be much less benefit to on-campus or campus-adjacent housing. The need for classroom space will be greatly reduced as well, obviously, so decreasing demand for on campus housing, combined with an increasing supply of on-campus buildings to convert or demo with no use but new housing...chriss752 wrote: ↑May 10, 2021I think the Armory will attract a lot more students, especially if the pedestrian connection under/above 64 is built prior to the completion of the residential towers. In this case, 520 apartments with a majority occupied by students would probably take a bite out of student housing demand in the area. Throw in the already existing student-oriented apartments nearby (Coronado, Verve, Continental Life, Midtown 300, Icon, Standard), I don't think Midtown needs many more student-oriented housing buildings off-campus.
The supply is adequate and each building offers a different type of living style for student residents. So it makes sense in a way why SLU wouldn't want student housing at Iron Hill. Their focus on wanting normal apartments makes sense considering it's further away from the campus and that they'd probably prefer if their students stayed close (within a few blocks) to the college.
And frankly, there isn't much benefit to conducting most undergraduate level classes in person, especially after freshman year, so I think a lot of schools were already moving in this direction before the pandemic.
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^I really can't believe that students will ever be given the option to come onto a campus twice a week. Everything is so much easier in person. Answering questions, proctoring tests, interacting with your classmates. All my teacher friends are eager to see the end of this nonsense. How many students even want that? My college aged relatives are all eager to get back to traditional in-person classes.
Honestly, I think even the dire predictions about the end of business travel are probably premature. Folks said the same thing in 2002. They were wrong. I expect they're still wrong. Yes, working from home is increasingly a thing, but that was a trend that was accelerating before the plague struck. It saves on rent. Companies love to externalize costs. I think they'd already more or less figured out what level of business travel was necessary.
And while online classes were and are a thing for those unable to travel to campus, they certainly have their place, they will probably never work for all disciplines. (And major universities make an awful lot of money from renting out dorm space and selling food. And they can pretty much set their own requirements. That, in the end, is probably why SLU doesn't want student housing at Iron Hill: they don't want the competition cutting into their own profits. Airports hate private parking providers. Colleges hate private apartment complexes. Simple as that.)
Honestly, I think even the dire predictions about the end of business travel are probably premature. Folks said the same thing in 2002. They were wrong. I expect they're still wrong. Yes, working from home is increasingly a thing, but that was a trend that was accelerating before the plague struck. It saves on rent. Companies love to externalize costs. I think they'd already more or less figured out what level of business travel was necessary.
And while online classes were and are a thing for those unable to travel to campus, they certainly have their place, they will probably never work for all disciplines. (And major universities make an awful lot of money from renting out dorm space and selling food. And they can pretty much set their own requirements. That, in the end, is probably why SLU doesn't want student housing at Iron Hill: they don't want the competition cutting into their own profits. Airports hate private parking providers. Colleges hate private apartment complexes. Simple as that.)
SLU doesn't not give a sh*t, I can guarantee. They already took a swing and a miss at the lowest hanging fruit of a development island in Iron Hill. It was easy filler for them to forget about that swath of land and move on as if they fulfilled their 'urban promise'.sc4mayor wrote: ↑May 10, 2021^ SLU not wanting any student housing there seems like a huge swing and miss.
Having said that, post-pandemic, it probably makes the most sense to rebuild the old street grid and start subdividing the lots to different developers. An Iron Hill style proposal with office, hotels, etc. is probably going to be tough to finance.
SLU should work with the city to regrade the site, rebuild a grid and then start selling off smaller parcels.
At what point would they give an indication that they actually have some sort of plan? Or an iota of creativity to follow their own promises? We're talking about a QuikTrip going in down the street at this very moment.
Yeah, they need more teal!framer wrote: ↑May 08, 2021Hate to be a downer so early in the process, but I really don't like the beige color of the new towers. It gives them a dated, institutional look (would fit right in at BJC). Let's brighten them up a bit, eh?
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^For a second I read that as "they need more tea." Maybe the new buildings are "weak tea." They are not keeping it 100.
$11.5M building permit application submitted by Green Street for interior alterations.
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Underground speakeasy planned at the Armory as developer secures more financing: https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 1b0c1.html
Local developer Green Street Real Estate Ventures will build out 5,000 square feet of space in the Armory's subbasement for the 1920s-themed bar. The rest of the space will be leased to Rec Hall, a yard-game focused sports bar with bocce, indoor soccer and more. No timeline of completion was disclosed in the release.
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Went past the other day and work is definitely underway. The entrance facing 64 finally has real doors instead of a gaping hole
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Got to hand it to Green Street for trying to salvage this. What a financial disaster this turned out. They’ve spent a lot of money for a this to be a glorified rec center and bar
You gotta be my least favorite person to hear from on this forum.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Nov 10, 2021Got to hand it to Green Street for trying to salvage this. What a financial disaster this turned out. They’ve spent a lot of money for a this to be a glorified rec center and bar
I like DB. Even if I don't agree with his viewpoints all the time I appreciate what he brings to the forum. Especially the direct info from someone who's more connected to downtown.
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All you have to do is go to page 1 of this thread (started 5 years ago) to see what this was suppose to be and what it become- none of that is opinion it’s just a fact
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Agreed with Dennis, they really have done a good job in trying to salvage this development. Not sure why that's such a negative thing to say. If anything, this is a good reminder that developers are taking on quite a bit of risk on large projects like the Armory. It's not a slam dunk that they'll be financially successful.
I'm wondering if there are any updates on the towers they are planning to build on the site. Good to see movement here, regardless.