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PostAug 03, 2007#26

Bastiat wrote:


There are no hoosiers in the Northeast or west coast, either.




i don't know about that - i've been on a lot of business trips to manchester, nh for the past year and a half and there appears to be a lot of people that bear similarities to our own midwest hoosiers. =)

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PostAug 03, 2007#27

CS has an irrational fear of state streets, warshers, and St. Louis-themed apparel. But he's spot-on with his description of our pathetic Strassenfest. 8)


Beer City wrote:Now it seems as they are catering to the “Boomer Harley” crowd, which seem to dominate almost all summertime festivals, I will take a real polka any day. Make it German and leave the crappy classic rock and barf carnival food to what ever day the hoosiers like to celebrate, like NASCAR independence day, or Thanksgiving-for-my-trailer-day or whatever.



Actually the Germans came here straight from Europe, kept Missouri in the Union, fought against slavery, established the St. Louis Symphony orchestra, gave us the a lot of the architecture that we still value today, established the Turnvereins and the network of armature athletic associates, built Concordia and Eden seminaries, built breweries and wineries and tried to establish all that was good with German society in the new world.



All of this can not be celebrated with a funel cake and Butch freaking Wax



In short the hoosier as we know him is a lost soul, yearning for the freedom and independence of self-sustained rural life, yet hemmed in to modern urban (or semi-urban) environment that frightens and confuses him forcing him to consume great deals of cheap beer, procreate often without understanding the consequences of those actions, yearn for the South in misguided search for individualism and identity, and listen to crappy classic rock and country. all of this in a vain attempt to free his very essence of being from the shackles of society that we impose on him, like decent haircuts and resisting the urge to remove ones shirt after beer 6 at the ballpark.



So you see its not him, its us. Embrace your inner hoosier. Drop the F bomb in a crowd of children, put a southern cross bumper sticker on your car, loose your job and blame it all on the gov’ment.



All-right now everyone "Sweet home Alabama….”



Well anyway that’s my dissertation, no really that was my dissertation, amazing what you can do for a masters these days


Aye, professor, I'd say that's an even finer dissertation than the well-written tome about beer quality you shared with us a few weeks ago. 8)



I may go Saturday morning to check out the VWs, but that's about it.

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PostAug 03, 2007#28

what4 wrote:
Bastiat wrote:


There are no hoosiers in the Northeast or west coast, either.




i don't know about that - i've been on a lot of business trips to manchester, nh for the past year and a half and there appears to be a lot of people that bear similarities to our own midwest hoosiers. =)


Hmmm...it could be my different definition of hoosiers. I associate the term more with West County, the (general) crowd at Clayton bars, and McMansions, etc than I do with Festus or JeffCo. Gelled or "frosted" hair is hoosier to me. While I wouldn't correct you if you called a guy with a mullet and a sleeveless shirt a hoosier, that is more redneck in my book.



I agree with you that there are rednecks everywhere though. I felt like I was on the set of "Deliverance" when I was in the mountains in Maine.

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PostAug 03, 2007#29

Gelled hair? I guess I should stop using my pomade because I am hoosier.

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PostAug 03, 2007#30

The word "hoosier" was initially a derogatory word from the South used to refer to rednecks, hicks, etc. As the word traveled north to Indiana, the meaning changed to something more neutral or even positive. However in St. Louis, we know the true meaning. Research below.



From http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/interne ... osier.html



Origination of the Word "Hoosier"

The best evidence, however, suggests that "Hoosier" was a term of contempt and opprobrium common in the upland South and used to denote a rustic, a bumpkin, a countryman, a roughneck, a hick or an awkward, uncouth or unskilled fellow. Although the word's derogatory meaning has faded, it can still be heard in its original sense, albeit less frequently than its cousins "Cracker" and "Redneck."



From the South "Hoosier" moved north and westward with the people into the Ohio Valley, where it was applied at first to the presumably unsophisticated inhabitants of Southern Indiana. Later it expanded to include all residents of the state and gradually lost its original, potent connotation of coarseness in manners, appearance and intellect.



As for the word itself, it probably derives from the Saxon word "hoo" meaning promontory or cliff or ridge or rise or hill. Jacob Dunn, a diligent scholar of the word, believes a Saxon beginning, and such a meaning survives in various place names in England. There is some sense in the notion, too, that those who applied the insult and those to whom it was applied (and who understood it) came primarily from British stock.



The unusual (ier or sier) ending has always been difficult to explain. Might it be from "scir" the old form of "shire?" The Hoo Shire would then be the Hill Country, the High Places or the Mountain Region. Would that meaning then extend to those who lived in the hills, making them the "hooscirs" and later the "Hoosiers," the mountain people, hillbillies by another name?



St. Louis' Influence

While "hoosier" may still be heard in areas of the south in its original, disparaging meaning of "uncouth rustic," the term seems to be slowly loosing currency. One important pocket of linguistic resistance, however, remains. Thomas E. Murray carefully analysed the use of "hoosier" in St. Louis, Missouri, where it is the favorite epithet of abuse. "When asked what a Hoosier is," Murray writes, "St. Louisans readily list a number of defining characteristics, among which are 'lazy,' 'slow-moving,' 'derelict,' and 'irresponsible.'" He continues, "Few epithets in St. Louis carry the pejorative connotations or the potential for eliciting negative responses that hoosier does." He conducted tests and interviews across lines of age and race and tabulated the results. He found the term ecuminically applied. He also noted the word was often used with a modifier, almost redundantly, as in "some damn Hoosier."



In a separate section Murray speaks of the history of the word and cites Baker and Carmony (1975) and speculates on why Hoosier (in Indiana a "neutral or, more often, positive" term) should remain "alive and well in St. Louis, occupying as it does the honored position of being the city's number one term of derogation." A radio broadcast took up where Murray left off. During the program, "Fresh Air," Jeffrey Lunberg, a language commentator, answered questions about regional nicknames. He cited Elaine Viets, a Post-Dispatch columnist (also quoted by Paul Dickson), as saying that in St. Louis a "Hoosier is a low-life redneck, somebody you can recognize because they have a car on concrete blocks in their front yard and are likely to have just shot their wife who may also be their sister."

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PostAug 03, 2007#31

I still like my etymological explanation better. Because of the somewhat loose relationship habits of new intracountry immigrants in St. Louis in the 19th Century, family structure wasn't always well-defined. So the children in these lower-class communities were frequently picked on by the kids from the "established" families: "Who's yer Daddy? Who's yer Daddy?"

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PostAug 03, 2007#32

Back to Strassenfest, I think I may go to this instead:



http://www.schlafly.com/schlaffenfest.shtml

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PostAug 03, 2007#33

DeBaliviere wrote:Back to Strassenfest, I think I may go to this instead:



http://www.schlafly.com/schlaffenfest.shtml
I don't think any of us cares about Strassenfest. If any topic deserves to be pillaged, it's this one. :P But yeah, maybe I'll take a walk there with my camera and pretend i'm at the zoo! j/k of course. kinda.

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PostAug 03, 2007#34

bonwich wrote:I still like my etymological explanation better. Because of the somewhat loose relationship habits of new intracountry immigrants in St. Louis in the 19th Century, family structure wasn't always well-defined. So the children in these lower-class communities were frequently picked on by the kids from the "established" families: "Who's yer Daddy? Who's yer Daddy?"


LOL! I can't tell you how many time someone (usually a hoosier) has told me that story. The funny/sad part is that most of them actually believe it.

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PostAug 03, 2007#35

I used to enjoy the steak samwiches some group used to server there.



They havent been around for the last 2 years.



Other then the steak samwiches not much other reason to go.



I might go at night fri or sat to see the drunks. thats good for a few laughs



:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostAug 04, 2007#36

We stopped by the fest last night after dinner & was very disappointed in the lack of an AB presence there. Had to walk all over to find a Bud but Miller was EVERYWHERE. Big, huge Miller tents on both ends, Huge blow-up Miller bottle & Jeep by one of the stages. What's the deal?? Is AB resting on their laurels? Just hoping we all stay loyal to our hometown brewery? My DH said he bets the sales of AB was greater than the Miller & that Miller probably paid BIG TIME for that presence. Who knows???

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PostAug 06, 2007#37

^ Yeah, I'm guessing Miller's paying big bucks for their displays, which would be similar to Pepsi doing the same at a street festival in Atlanta. :wink:



Did anyone actually go to this thing? I was in downtown several times this weekend- dinner at Simply Fondue Friday night, shopping at Macy's on Saturday, breakfast at Espresso Mod yesterday morning to watch the F1 race, and for dessert yesterday afternoon at The Gelateria. And amazingly, I never once had the desire to step out of my car and walk into this schlockfest, regardless of the temperature. 8)

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PostAug 06, 2007#38

I purposely avoided the area when going up to the Old North Farmer's Market on Saturday morning. I would normally drive right by on 14th. (Obviously wouldn't have been able to drive there, but wouldn't have avoided downtown.)

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PostAug 06, 2007#39

^ I drove through Old North yesterday morning and saw the signs for the Farmer's Market. We just bought a ton of stuff at Soulard Market the other day, but we're going to try Old North next time! 8)

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PostAug 06, 2007#40

MattnSTL wrote:I purposely avoided the area when going up to the Old North Farmer's Market on Saturday morning. I would normally drive right by on 14th. (Obviously wouldn't have been able to drive there, but wouldn't have avoided downtown.)


Where is the Old North Farmer's Market? We do Soulard all the time but would be interested in checking the ONSLT sometime. How big is it?



(I'm dying for a chocolate shake from Crown Candy. ONSTL Farmers market would be a perfect excuse.)

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PostAug 06, 2007#41

Right across the street from Crown Candy. The Market is on Saturday mornings starting at I believe 9:00 am. Nothing like Soulard Market, but there is a good selection of vegetables and good bread from Black bear Bakery. It runs through October.

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PostAug 06, 2007#42

Wouldn't it make sense to actually hold the Strassenfest around the same time as Oktoberfest? It always seems to take place on ridiculously hot weekends.

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PostAug 06, 2007#43

You would think. But as we have discussed, it's not really that authentic anyway, so why not hold it at an odd time.

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PostAug 06, 2007#44

DeBaliviere wrote:Wouldn't it make sense to actually hold the Strassenfest around the same time as Oktoberfest? It always seems to take place on ridiculously hot weekends.


At this point, I don't think it matters any more. Strassenfest is dead, as far as I'm concerned.



I'll hit Soulard Octoberfest this year, and the Germanfest in Milwaukee next summer.

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PostAug 06, 2007#45

^

The Milwaukee Germanfest is great. So is their Irishfest. And Summerfest. You have to pay for admission, but the trade-off is a much better festival than anything we have here.

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PostAug 06, 2007#46

I LMFAO when I read that wikipedia entry on hoosiers, especially the part about one of their defining characteristics being "slow moving." Considering this thread is one of the most incoherent I've seen in a while, and considering that Strassenfest is "dead," I propose that we get back to Hoosiers. I think that attempting to come to a formal definition of Hoosier is an exercise in futility (and hilarity) considering that, as a derogation, it can be unapologetically applied to anyone that has provoked the ire of the derogator. I think that the question "why has Hoosier=bad persisted in St. Louis?" is an interesting avenue of inquiry. As a side note. I am ethnically Jewish and some of my Jewish friends refer to me as a "Jewsier" because I like the outdoors, camping, and own a gun.

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PostAug 06, 2007#47

Nothing like Soulard Market, but there is a good selection of vegetables and good bread from Black bear Bakery. It runs through October.


Does anyone know if its true that Black Bear Bakery had t shirts that supported the kirkwood cop killer? I was going to try the place out but if this is true I would certainly not patronize any place that supported a murderer.

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PostAug 06, 2007#48

Manchester wrote:
Nothing like Soulard Market, but there is a good selection of vegetables and good bread from Black bear Bakery. It runs through October.


Does anyone know if its true that Black Bear Bakery had t shirts that supported the kirkwood cop killer? I was going to try the place out but if this is true I would certainly not patronize any place that supported a murderer.


Looking at their website, it wouldn't surprise me. They sound like a bunch of losers.


Black Bear Bakery is an anti-authoritarian, anti-ideological collective. The project has four primary goals:



1. To produce healthy, affordable food using ecological methods.



2. To foster consensus-based decision making in a dynamic environment that challenges division-of-labor and capital-based, hierarchical business.



3. To present participants with opportunities and tools for sustenance and individual growth in a worker controlled and operated bakery.



4. To organize and embrace anarchic grassroots agitation, information, and action.

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PostAug 06, 2007#49

TGE, it could go on and on. In high school, we used to call kids that went to SLUH, "Sluh-siers."

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PostAug 06, 2007#50

TGE, it could go on and on. In high school, we used to call kids that went to SLUH, "Sluh-siers."


HEY! I resemble that remark!!! :evil: :lol: (Class o' '94)



....and for the record it's "SLUH-zer"; as in 'loser'.

Of all high schools around here, I'm betting SLUH is far from having the most hoosiers enrolled.





Now let's see if you're brave enough to post where you happened to go to high school :wink: Probably Fox, Lindbergh, Parkway or Pattonville or some REAL hoosier-poison-ivy league joint. :P

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