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PostNov 18, 2009#76

A Google News search shows this is already picking up national attention.



Seriously, they let all the racism and hate speech slide, but a misfired joke is enough to rat someone out and get them fired?



His only beef with the individual was that they posted a rude comment to his site. He could have simply banned them and walked away. Instead, he chose to act even more juvenile than the poster in question, and is proud of the consequences of his action.



While my opinion of the P-D has slid since the Lee buyout, I certainly thought it still had some integrity left. Mr. Greenbaum, on the other hand, has demonstrated today that he does not.
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PostNov 18, 2009#77

I see the problem being that because the Post-Dispatch didn't moderate comments the problem has come to this. I think that Kurt was basically wrong, but when there's no institutional control, something like this was going to happen.
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PostNov 18, 2009#78

I heard the word posted was not the word rhyming with Wussy, but in fact the word rhyming with Punt.
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PostNov 18, 2009#79

^^ Multiple people who claim to have seen it have said that it does rhyme with wussy.
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PostNov 18, 2009#80

Grover wrote:^^ Multiple people who claim to have seen it have said that it does rhyme with wussy.


Not to be totally crass, but considering what the topic of the conversation was, that word would make more sense.



I'm amazed Lee's lawyers let Greenbaum respond to the comments.
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PostNov 18, 2009#81

Wow - looking online this story is everywhere - Huffingtonpost, social media sites, journalism sites... I think Kurt really stepped in it. I guarantee that this is going to be on Fox News in 3...2...1....
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PostNov 18, 2009#82

^ Drop the links or it never happened...
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PostNov 18, 2009#83

^ I'm saying it's imminent - not that it's already happened.
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PostNov 18, 2009#84

innov8ion wrote:^ Drop the links or it never happened...


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/1 ... 62406.html



http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009/11 ... ensues.ars
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PostNov 18, 2009#85

^ Here's Kurt Greenbaum's response: http://j.mp/39ELrZ. And a link to more articles on the same topic: http://news.google.com/news/more?um=1&c ... UMPDIngxXM



If only Mr. Greenbaum were more stringent with racist comments than off-color jokes... The individual posted the comment anonymously and Kurt violated his (and all of our) trust by going out of his way to punish him. And in retrospect he had the gall to gloat and call the man he effectively got fired a jack*ss? Doesn't this witch-hunt violate journalistic integrity?


http://twitter.com/kgreenbaum/status/5778019649 wrote:RT @kgreenbaum Amazed at the readers who comment in defense of a jack*ss who posted a vulgarity on our site -- and lost his job.
I wouldn't wish a firing on anyone, especially in today's economy, and hope that Kurt retains his job for both he and his family's sake. But the Post-Dispatch has got to be readying itself for one hell of a lawsuit!



It goes without saying, but I hope this serves as a wake-up call for @kgreenbaum and the P-D to SERIOUSLY review and unfark the commenting policy. It is way past due... - http://stltomorrow.org
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PostNov 19, 2009#86

^ The RFT's already on the case, it would seem:



http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyr ... ession.php



Also, this is now getting international attention (well, from north of the border, anyway):



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/in ... le1368881/
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PostNov 19, 2009#87

Below is an interesting comment from the Post-Dispatch's comments section: http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/the-ed ... /#comments


From the Post-Dispatch Privacy policy:



“We will not share individual user information with third parties unless the user has specifically approved the release of that information. In some cases, however, we may provide information to legal officials as described in “Compliance with Legal Process” below. ”



Kurt, unless you were talking to a legal official at that school, how do you justify your action in light of the posted Privacy Policy on this site?



— Altongal

12:31 pm November 17th, 2009
An IP address can be considered individual user information -- especially since the unauthorized release of this information by Kurt Greenbaum helped get this man fired. Mr. Greenbaum and the Post-Dispatch violated its own privacy policy, the victim's trust and that of its entire readership.
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PostNov 19, 2009#88

But Kurt shared individual user information with the entity that owned the IP, so it was really not given to a third party.
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PostNov 19, 2009#89

^ The commenter was the first party, Kurt was the second party, and the entity that owned the IP (the school) was the third party. Game, set, match... I can see the lawyers licking their lips on this one.
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PostNov 19, 2009#90

innov8ion wrote:I can see the lawyers licking their lips on this one.


I hope so. The 60%+ who in some form said that commenting needs changed or removed from STLToday.com have been ignored. Hopefully this fallout will get them listening.
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PostNov 19, 2009#91

I have a feeling that somebody's getting a great payday out of this, and it's not the Post.
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PostNov 19, 2009#92

^ Yeah, it's not just that Kurt violated his employer's privacy policy and got a man fired for an "anonymous" off-color remark. It's that he gloated about it, called the commenter a jack*ss, and has yet to apologize.



One thing is for sure... The intertubes do not take this type of behavior very kindly. Things could get pretty ugly for Kurt if 4chan (anonymous) gets a load of this and they drop his "dox." What does this mean, you ask? It means they could locate his sensitive information, share it, and encourage the enraged, anonymous masses to give him a taste of his own medicine.



I don't think he yet realizes the hornet's nest he's stirred up but hopefully he wakes up and takes responsibility for his actions before the proverbial sh*t hits the fan. Too bad an apology from Kurt won't give the victim his job back...


http://carlosmiller.com/2009/11/19/does-kurt-greenbaum-need-to-resign/ wrote:First Amendment attorney and Photography is Not a Crime reader Marc Randazza, who is a former journalist, is also calling for the resignation of Greenbaum. He has even gone through the trouble of posting the name and contact info of Greenbaum’s boss, in case you want to let him know how you feel.



Kurt's Boss

- Kevin Mowbray

- Phone: 314-340-8970

- E-mail: kmowbray@post-dispatch.com
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PostNov 19, 2009#93

The EFF also would love to hear about this, I'm sure.
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PostNov 19, 2009#94

From Kurt:


First, this came from a school. I didn’t know if it came from an employee, a guest or a student. But I viewed it as a “teachable moment” and a chance, perhaps, to nip something in the bud, to engage the community to help me. I didn’t anticipate that the reader would resign.


Viewing this as a "teachable moment" is awfully presumptuous.



And I highly doubt the poster simply resigned. He was likely given the option of resigning (to allow him to save face) or being fired, and he chose the former. I can't imagine he was confronted by his employer and simply chose to quit.


I should have walked the idea around the newsroom a little more before calling the school. I was motivated by the fact that it was a school. We may have decided to try something less drastic. We may have done exactly the same thing. I couldn’t know without asking.


You should have called LEGAL first!
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PostNov 19, 2009#95

This guy is obviously a moron. I've been so mad over this for the last 24 hours that I can't see straight. Just think, had they listened to their majority readers who voted to drop commenting all together (58%), or even the 23% who voted that the moderation tactics be changed, this would not have happened. I mean, this is like being put to death for looting a business called "Come Loot Us, Inc." They don't care what their commenters do or say in regards to the city or minorities, but they pitch a fit and go tattle on someone who uses "a vulgar word."


We’ve already talked about how and when to escalate our response to bad language.


Not worried about the racism and just general ignorance, just "bad language." This guy is a tool.



I encourage you all, if you are on Twitter, to give ol' @kgreenbaum and @stltoday a shout out. I've been skewering them every chance I get. @Joey_314
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PostNov 19, 2009#96

DeBaliviere wrote:From Kurt:


First, this came from a school. I didn’t know if it came from an employee, a guest or a student. But I viewed it as a “teachable moment” and a chance, perhaps, to nip something in the bud, to engage the community to help me. I didn’t anticipate that the reader would resign.


Viewing this as a "teachable moment" is awfully presumptuous.
The only "teachable moments" here apply to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch and Kurt Greenbaum. The Post-Dispatch will learn that privacy policies must be adhered to otherwise they can be held liable for incurred and punitive damages.



Kurt will learn to:

- Respect his employer's privacy policies

- Not gloat about getting a man fired

- Not be a patronizing a**hole w/ his "teachable moments."

- Not be a hypocrite in calling the victim of his privacy breach a vulgar word when he got that man fired for the same.

- (If he maintains his job...) Place more focus on the many racist, divisive comments that continue to soil stltoday.com rather than off-color jokes. Kurt constantly makes excuses for his staff's inability to effectively moderate because of resource constraints. That's why god invented technology -- it can serve as a "civility filter" and scales! Read the "Target" page @ http://stltomorrow.org, end the admitted laziness and do your damn job.

- Own up to his actions and apologize to both the victim and the Post-Dispatch's readership for violating their trust and being an arrogant ass in the process.



How the Post-Dispatch holds him accountable is up to them but I assume even this will serve as a "teachable moment" for Kurt. He should be judged for what he did, the arrogance in which he did it, and his failure to claim responsibility for his actions and show remorse to the victim.

PostNov 20, 2009#97

Update: I don't condone mob mentality and I think that this is kinda creepy but I warned yesterday of Anonymous' capability and noticed that the force is mobilizing and ramping up operations. Look at a Twitter search of this meme which shows Anonymous' anger and view blogs worldwide which are almost 100% against Greenbaum. The world is basically against Kurt Greenbaum and the Post-Dispatch -- not a good place to be....



Anonymous(i) privacy was violated by Kurt Greenbaum, causing Anonymous(i) to be fired, and now tens and likely hundreds of thousands of Anonymous wants justice. To that end, Anonymous is starting to drop dox on Greenbaum, the P-D and Lee Enterprises. I sincerely hope that the Post-Dispatch acts quickly to resolve this issue (anything less than a firing will no longer suffice) because Anonymous is hungry and the safety of Kurt and his family could be in danger. Hopefully the police is at least aware of the potential threat...



Check out the details and comments here: http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/a ... d_goes_to/. And that's just reddit -- I haven't looked to see if ebaumsworld or 4chan is involved as well. Anonymous from the latter two sites (particularly 4chan) can be more crafty and unpredictable.



The Dox

- Kurt Greenbaum's phone and street address (derived from the whois information on his igreenbaum.com domain) and a picture of his house on Google Street View.

- Kevin Mowbray, Post-Dispatch VP (Email & Phone)

- Karen J. Guest, Lee Enterprises, Vice President – Law and Chief Legal Officer (Email & Phone)
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PostNov 20, 2009#98

Kurt Greenbaum obviously handled this situation completely wrong- but I hate to see a situation in which he loses his job and his privacy and safety compromised. I think the former is inevitable, but hopefully any fallout from the latter can be avoided.



The bottom line is, if common sense moderating tools had been in place as Innov8ion has suggested here and on STLtomorrow.org before, this entire debacle could have been avoided. And readers of STLtoday.com and the St. Louis Post-Dispatch could read articles and opinion pieces that are not tainted with hateful and thoughtless comments that are typically far worse than the word that cost a person his job. The comments section is an absolute embarrassment as it stands now.



I would like to think when this fire is put out and the smoke clears, that the Post-Dispatch will either significantly revamp the way in which comments are submitted to its website or jettison the comments section altogether. However, I don't expect them to do so, as I think they are willing to turn a blind eye to hateful and ignorant dialogue as long as it generates hits for their website. (What would Pulitzer do?) :roll:
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PostNov 20, 2009#99

ThreeOneFour wrote:Kurt Greenbaum obviously handled this situation completely wrong- but I hate to see a situation in which he loses his job and his privacy and safety compromised. I think the former is inevitable, but hopefully any fallout from the latter can be avoided.
I hope that Kurt and his family stay safe but other than that, it's fair game. Why? Kurt didn't seem to have a problem with violating his employer's privacy policy which resulted in a reader getting fired. He could have told the school that the comment came from them w/o giving up the IP address that identified the victim. But no, he wanted blood. Journalistic integrity? Who needs that when you're set on patronizing your readership with (in his words) "teachable moments?"



Maybe it would have been different if Kurt weren't such a pompous, unrepentant "jack*ss" afterwards. But he was. Because of his actions, the Post-Dispatch is almost guaranteed to pay incurred and punitive damages in court. And does he not deserve a similarly severe punishment from Anonymous that he gave to anonymous?



Unfortunately, P-D "journalists" attacking their own readers isn't just unique to Mr. Greenbaum. Steve Giegerich also felt the need to step up on his bully pulpit and alienate a commenter in an article only ten days ago: http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/stl-jo ... 009/11/747/. Golly gee, if it weren't for the Post-Dispatch, how would its uncouth readers be graced with all these "teachable moments?"



Seriously... Isn't this trend disturbing and one indicative of an organizational culture gone awry? What kind of piece of sh*t rag is Kevin Mowbray and Lee Enterprises running? This kind of foolishness may be acceptable where they come from, but it's not tolerated here...



- http://kurtgreenbaum.com

- http://punchingkitty.com/2009/11/20/the ... greenbaum/
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PostNov 21, 2009#100

So, I read this via KurtGreenbaumIsAPu$$y.com (seriously);



The comment allegedly was;

"I have eaten many different animals (or at least parts of them), including rattlesnake, crocodile, alligator, iguana, turtle, and many different molluscs, arthropods, echinoids, and whatnot from sea or river. I have also eaten squirrel, bear, dog, and cat. So, I can say I have eaten p****, and you can interpret or misinterpret it any way you want. Oh, and woof-woof, too."



Is that really that bad?
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