74 mill just to restore.
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^ You think that's a lot? It's been shuttered for long enough that all electrical/plumbing will be replaced along with finishing touches (doors, windows, awnings, etc.) and then world-class sound and lighting and then everything visitors will touch - ticket windows, concessions, seats . . . It's a big place.
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so, is that $74 million completely out of Checketts pocket? How do tax credits figure into this?
The numbers may not have disclosed yet.
As far cost, it seems like someone before mentioned removing seats to comply with current people-with-disabilities regulations or something.
The numbers may not have disclosed yet.
As far cost, it seems like someone before mentioned removing seats to comply with current people-with-disabilities regulations or something.
Not so fast.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument
St. Louis aldermen delay $74M Kiel Opera House vote
By Tim O'Neil
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
05/20/2009
A St. Louis aldermanic committee heard testimony today on a $74 million plan to finally reopen Kiel Opera House downtown but delayed its vote at least for a week, largely out of concerns that the idea could hurt the Fox Theatre.
Aldermen also balked at moving took quickly on the complex deal, which was introduced in bill form only last week.
continues...
The Fox may be a local treasure, but it is time to accept that in a region with 2.8 million, there can be more than 1 theatre which shows first-run Broadway productions.
As a side note, the objection by the Fox makes me wonder whether rehabbing the Fox (rather than the Kiel or Ambassador) was the right move.
As a side note, the objection by the Fox makes me wonder whether rehabbing the Fox (rather than the Kiel or Ambassador) was the right move.
I'm guessing there's a pretty fair to decent chance the Fox Theater and related Grand Center entities will be able to kill the Kiel renovations.
:hell:
:hell:
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How shortsighted and naive. Cleveland's Playhouse Square has FIVE significant theatres and does quite well.
Allen Theatre - 2,800 seats
Hanna Theatre - 1,500 seats
Ohio Theatre - 1,300 seats
State Theatre - 3,000 seats
Palace Theatre - 3,000 seats
Allen Theatre - 2,800 seats
Hanna Theatre - 1,500 seats
Ohio Theatre - 1,300 seats
State Theatre - 3,000 seats
Palace Theatre - 3,000 seats
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JMedwick wrote:As a side note, the objection by the Fox makes me wonder whether rehabbing the Fox (rather than the Kiel or Ambassador) was the right move.
And of course, there's the Touhill.
Ken Munoz, a partner in Sports Capital Holdings, said his group is disappointed in the delay but will continue seeking aldermanic approval. Munoz said he was surprised by the "very narrow and parochial opposition" of the Fox, which he said is not threatened by a reopened Kiel Opera House.
"The Fox will do just fine," Munoz said.
Wouldn't be the first time our decision makers have been described thusly.
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Typical St. Louis Politics. They finally have someone with the desire and money to rehab Kiel, and they want to stop this.
Whatever Alderman is holding this up needs to be removed. Isn't St. Louis big enough for 2 theaters?
This whole thing is just pathetic. Fox and Kiel aren't even in the same neighborhood. Besides, Checketts owns some Broadway productions I believe. So he would probably bring in shows also.
Just plain ridiculous and short-sighted. Since when does the city government get to decide that the Fox isn't allowed to have competition?
Whatever Alderman is holding this up needs to be removed. Isn't St. Louis big enough for 2 theaters?
This whole thing is just pathetic. Fox and Kiel aren't even in the same neighborhood. Besides, Checketts owns some Broadway productions I believe. So he would probably bring in shows also.
Just plain ridiculous and short-sighted. Since when does the city government get to decide that the Fox isn't allowed to have competition?
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Wow. He may be about to get a lesson in the power of parochialism. Words like that aren't taken too kindly in these parts.
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are you %^$&^$ kidding me!? even for St. Louis I'm stunned. .. let me get this straight. The Fox gets tax payer subsidized renovations so now no other theater can get tax payer subsidized renovations? isn't that a bit rich. not only do they get tax payer funding to renovate their theater but they apparently get a monopoly as well (on Broadway shows). of course - I don't recall that ever being part of the deal when the fox was renovated. Does anyone else recall the Fox getting money for renovations AND a guaranteed monopoly on Broadway shows.
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Chicago politics may be corrupt, but at least they get stuff done.
St. Louis politics are pigheaded and stubborn and we get nothing done.
St. Louis politics are pigheaded and stubborn and we get nothing done.
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As unecessary as I think the delay is, my best guess is that the delay is a way for the Aldermen to tell the Fox that they listened, but that this project will move forward soon.
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Grover wrote:As unecessary as I think the delay is, my best guess is that the delay is a way for the Aldermen to tell the Fox that they listened, but that this project will move forward soon.
That's basically what I was thinking. I'm sure that SCP can put together a pretty compelling case for the renovation of the Kiel.
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Aparently some people actually believe capitalism is dead. Fantastic.
I agree with Grover. I believe the city is being respectful. Still, we've been down this road before and the Fox people should not be able to pressure the city into making a bad decision. A civic jewel is rotting to death while people who are scared to compete are sounding a false alarm.
To their credit, the Fox Theatre/Partners have been an integral of Grand Center's revitalization and that should count for much, however, the Fox people should not be allowed to monopolize Broadway shows in St. Louis. Hell, the way I see it, more competition means more choices for St. Louis-area residents. It's a win-win for St. Louis. Touhill, The Fabulous Fox, The Roberts Orpheum etc. all would have to simply step up their game to compete.
Further, a lot of Broadway shows skip St. Louis because the Fox people pick and choose what they want, which includes some of their own award-winning productions. Others skip St. Louis because the Fox is too large for what they need and there isn't another viable/available venue.
St. Louis had more theatres with fewer residents back in the day. And last, Checketts has said the KOH wouldn't be just for Broadway shows, but other concerts and productions that skip St. Louis.
To their credit, the Fox Theatre/Partners have been an integral of Grand Center's revitalization and that should count for much, however, the Fox people should not be allowed to monopolize Broadway shows in St. Louis. Hell, the way I see it, more competition means more choices for St. Louis-area residents. It's a win-win for St. Louis. Touhill, The Fabulous Fox, The Roberts Orpheum etc. all would have to simply step up their game to compete.
Further, a lot of Broadway shows skip St. Louis because the Fox people pick and choose what they want, which includes some of their own award-winning productions. Others skip St. Louis because the Fox is too large for what they need and there isn't another viable/available venue.
St. Louis had more theatres with fewer residents back in the day. And last, Checketts has said the KOH wouldn't be just for Broadway shows, but other concerts and productions that skip St. Louis.
Also, if the people at Fox were good community citizens, I think they should understand the importance of reopening the blighted Kiel Opera House. If they don't, how sad and too bad. Get over it. Using Fox's logic, wouldn't both venues be at risk of going dark because of competition from the other?
Why not work together with Checketts/SPC Worldwide?
Why not work together with Checketts/SPC Worldwide?
Consider sending emails to the Housing, Urban Development and Zoning Committee. Let them know the importance of revitalizing KOH. It's long overdue.
Information:
Housing, Urban Development and Zoning Committee considers all matters pertaining to housing, urban development and zoning, including the Community Development Agency and Commission, the St. Louis Development Corporation and the appropriation and disbursement of all federal monies administered by said agencies.
Alfred Wessels, Jr. , Chair
Gregory Carter
Shane Cohn
Stephen Conway
Marlene Davis
Jennifer Florida
Dionne Flowers
April Ford-Griffin
Terry Kennedy
Lyda Krewson
Samuel L. Moore
Kenneth Ortmann
Craig Schmid
Charles Quincy Troupe
Link to committee members email addresses
Information:
Housing, Urban Development and Zoning Committee considers all matters pertaining to housing, urban development and zoning, including the Community Development Agency and Commission, the St. Louis Development Corporation and the appropriation and disbursement of all federal monies administered by said agencies.
Alfred Wessels, Jr. , Chair
Gregory Carter
Shane Cohn
Stephen Conway
Marlene Davis
Jennifer Florida
Dionne Flowers
April Ford-Griffin
Terry Kennedy
Lyda Krewson
Samuel L. Moore
Kenneth Ortmann
Craig Schmid
Charles Quincy Troupe
Link to committee members email addresses
^ If you are serious about your support for this project, you should probably do just that.
The Fox will, apparently, be distributing leaflets to its patrons urging them to oppose the project.
It is not clear to me why the Fox so seriously undervalues its 25+ years of building a customer base. Good programming and great customer service should keep them competitive. And two venues should only grow the market.
The Fox will, apparently, be distributing leaflets to its patrons urging them to oppose the project.
It is not clear to me why the Fox so seriously undervalues its 25+ years of building a customer base. Good programming and great customer service should keep them competitive. And two venues should only grow the market.
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publiceye wrote:^ If you are serious about your support for this project, you should probably do just that.
The Fox will, apparently, be distributing leaflets to its patrons urging them to oppose the project.
It is not clear to me why the Fox so seriously undervalues its 25+ years of building a customer base. Good programming and great customer service should keep them competitive. And two venues should only grow the market.
And they've had all these years to build that performing arts high school at the Kiel as they had proposed approximately 10 years ago.