urbanSTL

Check out how crisp and clean these lofts near SLU look. Same old warehouse type of building, neatly painted:
 
(pic posted by stlnative)

@framer the building along Forest Park is most likely how Steelcote will look when completed unless they go with a gray color.

Anyway, the Planning Commission document included a site plan for Mill Creek Flats and as a drawing showing how the three developments will interact with each other. The site plan, or context diagram, is interesting since it shows the pre-design phase in September 2018. Notice how the flats weren't an "L" shape yet. The side along Papin would've been a green roof. It wasn't until the massing came in November that the "L" was added. But maybe I am reading them wrong.

That happened so quickly.  Really great to see a developer with vision, and the willingness to take a risk.  While we wait decades for Chouteau & Grand to be redeveloped..

bwcrow1s wrote:That happened so quickly.  Really great to see a developer with vision, and the willingness to take a risk.  While we wait decades for Chouteau & Grand to be redeveloped..

I wouldn't write off Grand & Chouteau yet. Cullinan seems to get things done so even if they build something smaller first, ti will be a start.

Anyway, it is great that Michael has a vision with what he wants to do. Steelcote Square will surely become a destination over the next few years. He owns that property on Gratiot and some others are for sale that I am sure he will try to go and acquire for future development. Tons of potential in this industrial area but before long, it will become majority residential. I say by 2022, we will see how this area will look further down the road. More plans will surely be presented by then.

I visited a neighborhood in Nashville this week called The Gulch.  Judging from the looks of it, there wasn't much to it until just a few years ago.  There's a handful of historic warehouse-type buildings and legacy businesses, but it's mostly a dense group of newer apartment buildings with a few office buildings mixed in.  The terrain slopes downward into a valley where there are train tracks.  It occurred to me that it's kind of what the area around Steelcote could eventually be like if it were totally built out.  This video is a few years old, but it kind of gives you an idea:

^I dated my now wife long distance while she lived in Nashville for 18 months from 2014-2016. The gulch really built up during that time period. I am sure it is even more different now. 

Painting has started. The Eastern and Southern sides have gotten the treatment. The North and West sides still need paint.

^ This development might be one of my favorites taking place right now. I have got to tip my hat to Pier Property Group for their fantastic work and commitment to this and several other projects in the area! The paint was an excellent choice for sure; the building looks super sharp with the bright white and new glass windows. Them listening to our ideas truly shows Pier Property Groups commitment to our community. We really need more developers like them.

debaliviere wrote:I visited a neighborhood in Nashville this week called The Gulch.  Judging from the looks of it, there wasn't much to it until just a few years ago.  There's a handful of historic warehouse-type buildings and legacy businesses, but it's mostly a dense group of newer apartment buildings with a few office buildings mixed in.  The terrain slopes downward into a valley where there are train tracks.  It occurred to me that it's kind of what the area around Steelcote could eventually be like if it were totally built out.  

The goal is to make Steelcote Square our own version of the Gulch. I was just in Nashville and got some photos for those to show how the neighborhood has changed since the CNN Video...

chriss752 wrote:

debaliviere wrote:I visited a neighborhood in Nashville this week called The Gulch.  Judging from the looks of it, there wasn't much to it until just a few years ago.  There's a handful of historic warehouse-type buildings and legacy businesses, but it's mostly a dense group of newer apartment buildings with a few office buildings mixed in.  The terrain slopes downward into a valley where there are train tracks.  It occurred to me that it's kind of what the area around Steelcote could eventually be like if it were totally built out.  

The goal is to make Steelcote Square our own version of the Gulch. I was just in Nashville and got some photos for those to show how the neighborhood has changed since the CNN Video...

Obviously our demand isn't Nashville level right now, but I could see a day where Cortex is mostly built out or getting expensive and the development pressure forces new development to this area. 

Right now, St. Louis has finally got the ball starting to roll on development and central corridor growth. If STL can fill the current Foundry, Cortex, Armory, Iron Hill, and Steelcote projects, then I honestly can't wait to see what the next wave of projects will be. 

Give it five years, and I think St. Louis is going to be a hot city, with NGA and Cortex being the major drivers for change in the city. 

KansasCitian wrote: Right now, St. Louis has finally got the ball starting to roll on development and central corridor growth. If STL can fill the current Foundry, Cortex, Armory, Iron Hill, and Steelcote projects, then I honestly can't wait to see what the next wave of projects will be. 

Give it five years, and I think St. Louis is going to be a hot city, with NGA and Cortex being the major drivers for change in the city. 

Highly optimistic. I think we are a good 20 years from being a relatively stable city. 

I didn't say stable. I said hot. 

Or, at the very least, getting hotter. 

I think that after Ballpark Village, Foundry, Cortex, Armory, Iron Hill, Steelcote, and potentially MLS, 2 Cardinal Way, 300, and Moxy are completed, you will see a much healthier Central Corridor. 

In Kansas City, the entire downtown area was entirely dead until after Power & Light was built out a little. Things changed after that, and I'm fully expecting to see the same happen with St. Louis and Ballpark Village. Add some residents, get the ball moving, and then you'll see that, should developers make the right decisions, that the ball will start moving faster and faster. 

goat314 wrote:

chriss752 wrote: The goal is to make Steelcote Square our own version of the Gulch. I was just in Nashville and got some photos for those to show how the neighborhood has changed since the CNN Video...

Obviously our demand isn't Nashville level right now, but I could see a day where Cortex is mostly built out or getting expensive and the development pressure forces new development to this area. 

True, we aren't at Nashville level demand yet, and we may never will, but if PPG wishes to make this area our version of the Gulch, I say have at it. Steelcote Square is accessible by multiple forms of transport (Bus, Bike, MetroLink, and Cars). When you properly connect this area to the Metro station, whether it be a new pedestrian bridge or building up to the Grand viaduct with access to the district, you can have hotels, office space, apartments, stores, entertainment, and restaurants down there and it would be easy to get to. This is one thing going for it that the Gulch doesn't have, easy access to a Metro system and major highways. In my time getting into the Gulch, it was quite difficult. Getting out of it was just as hard. Walking was really the only way to get in and out of it in a quick amount of time. But we will see how this area plays out. 

More plans are in the works for Steelcote Square though. Maybe then we will start to see the master plan come together. 

chriss752 wrote:

goat314 wrote:

chriss752 wrote: The goal is to make Steelcote Square our own version of the Gulch. I was just in Nashville and got some photos for those to show how the neighborhood has changed since the CNN Video...

Obviously our demand isn't Nashville level right now, but I could see a day where Cortex is mostly built out or getting expensive and the development pressure forces new development to this area. 

True, we aren't at Nashville level demand yet, and we may never will, but if PPG wishes to make this area our version of the Gulch, I say have at it. Steelcote Square is accessible by multiple forms of transport (Bus, Bike, MetroLink, and Cars). When you properly connect this area to the Metro station, whether it be a new pedestrian bridge or building up to the Grand viaduct with access to the district, you can have hotels, office space, apartments, stores, entertainment, and restaurants down there and it would be easy to get to. This is one thing going for it that the Gulch doesn't have, easy access to a Metro system and major highways. In my time getting into the Gulch, it was quite difficult. Getting out of it was just as hard. Walking was really the only way to get in and out of it in a quick amount of time. But we will see how this area plays out. 

More plans are in the works for Steelcote Square though. Maybe then we will start to see the master plan come together. 

Will be interesting to see how much central corridor development in the near can help the rest of the city in the long term.  Agree with both side, the central corridor could get even hotter and see a lot of changes over the next several years where as it will a couple good decades for the city as a whole. 

What I cringe about is that every area will be or have an entertainment district component to it.  From the loop to CWE/Foundry to Grand Center to Wash Ave or BPV to Soulard to trying to revive the Landing their is just so many places the city and region can support as a regional entertainment destination.   How many more developments argue that they will have a regional draw, think Crestwood plaza or Iron Hill

Instead, What interests me for this particular area and Chouteau landing as well is what would it take to keep some of its more gritty industrial history of late and the jobs that came with it.   In other words, can you develop an area to add affordable housing and neighborhood amenities at same time support more development of not so sexy light industrial, small warehousing & makers facilities to keep jobs in the city.  Not so much a draw but good ol turn of the century area where a lot of people literally lived and worked in the same neighborhoods because the cost of transportation was much bigger percentage of their disposal income.    

chriss752 wrote:
The goal is to make Steelcote Square our own version of the Gulch. I was just in Nashville and got some photos for those to show how the neighborhood has changed since the CNN Video...

What a bunch of buffoons these developers and city leaders must be!  

Where are the ginormous setbacks with lawnscaping?  Where are the angled parking and surface lots next to the front entrances?  Do they expect people to walk half a block - on actual sidewalks no less!?  

Where is the bar mall?  Its like they spaced out the retail spaces all over the district.  And who builds retail space facing an actual city street with vehicles anymore, and along sidewalks with random, scary pedestrians and whatnot?  Everyone knows shopping and entertainment space has to be bunched together and insulated, and face an interior plaza or courtyard or somesuch.  

This will never work.  Rubes!

North side has been painted.

chriss752 wrote:

goat314 wrote:

chriss752 wrote: The goal is to make Steelcote Square our own version of the Gulch. I was just in Nashville and got some photos for those to show how the neighborhood has changed since the CNN Video...

Obviously our demand isn't Nashville level right now, but I could see a day where Cortex is mostly built out or getting expensive and the development pressure forces new development to this area. 

True, we aren't at Nashville level demand yet, and we may never will, but if PPG wishes to make this area our version of the Gulch, I say have at it. Steelcote Square is accessible by multiple forms of transport (Bus, Bike, MetroLink, and Cars). When you properly connect this area to the Metro station, whether it be a new pedestrian bridge or building up to the Grand viaduct with access to the district, you can have hotels, office space, apartments, stores, entertainment, and restaurants down there and it would be easy to get to. This is one thing going for it that the Gulch doesn't have, easy access to a Metro system and major highways. In my time getting into the Gulch, it was quite difficult. Getting out of it was just as hard. Walking was really the only way to get in and out of it in a quick amount of time. But we will see how this area plays out. 

More plans are in the works for Steelcote Square though. Maybe then we will start to see the master plan come together. 

I sure would like to hear Michael Hamburg's thoughts on this, especially since he owns property adjacent to the viaduct.  

There is a real possibility now to turn that viaduct into something resembling an actual street, but it will take some community funding source.  The individual parcel developers can't absorb all the cost themselves.  Perhaps a TDD?  Unfortunately, the city and SLU are going to need considerable prodding on this subject.  More so the latter I guess, since SLU owns much of the property, and the city gave up most of its control to them anyway...