urbanSTL

What gang activity are you referring to in regards to US?

Cobblestone wrote:A lot of comedy clubs have had that spot: Comedy Sportz was there in the late 90's, and then it became City Improv. They were open from about 2000 to 2005, after that it became "The Improv", which wasn't around for long. Next it was "Suite 250", I don't think that lasted long either. It was empty for a while, then "Club Encore" opened and closed in less than a year.



I think that some of the improv troupe from City Improv went to the Westport Playhouse, some of them went to Laughs on the Landing, and some of them went to Chicago .



Its a shame that no one can seem to make that space work. Its really a neat little room.

Ah, City Improv was the one I was thinking of. I had seen their website say they moved to Westport, but their website also showed they had no shows coming up and Westport was under renovation at the time so I figure they might've just outright folded.



Is anyone using that space now? It seems like a blackbox theater with a bar attached would be a perfect space for something.



Also, seconding the question about gang activity. I've seen a lot of things at Union Station that make me think it's on the downslope, but not gang activity.

cap retail at its current floorspace level until there is a low vacancy rate among retailers, and ONLY THEN do you gradually increase it by allowing retail development/uses.

Yes, let's make all retail development throughout the St. Louis metro area highly government regulated. That is the most efficient way to solve market inequalities and encourage competition. We can start by slum-clearing that useless train station.

Seriously, what do you folks think about an indoor water park, combined with an outdoor park with water slides, beach volleyball, go-kart racing, rockclimbing, batting cages, etc., and a swimming pool in the summer/skating rink in the winter, all under the shed at Union Station?



Combined with all of the other cheap, family-friendly attractions around St. Louis, plus the City Museum and the Arch downtown, and I think something like this could really make St. Louis THE Midwest family tourist weekend destination - year round. As I said before, throw in some more family-valued hotels around Union Station, a Dave & Buster's, maybe An American Girl, and one or two of those big box destination retailers I listed before, and I really think this could work. If Chouteau Lake happens, then it would definitely work, but I don't think we want Union Station to collect dust until Chouteau Lake is reality.



A) The shed is already partially covered, enough for a large indoor water park, and I don't imagine it would be prohibitively expensive to add some more glass if needed.



2) There really isn't much at all for families to do in downtown St. Louis, especially late fall to early spring, and I don't think any of the developments on the horizon, including BV, are really going to change that. I suspect Ballpark Village restaurants will be out of most families' price range, and nothing I've seen so far suggests that it will be very family-friendly. I imagine it is going to be much more oriented toward adults sans kids, which is odd when you think about it, but that is the impression I get from the renderings and descriptions.



iii) These parks are wildly popular in Wisconsin, families come from all over the Midwest to hang out at the indoor water parks at the Dells in the winter. Many stay for a weekend or longer, and there isn't squat else to do there.



****) Something like this might encourage more conventioneers to bring their families along when conventioneering in St. Louis.



Yes there may be a lot of retail coming online downtown in the next few years, but there will still be many unfilled niches, and I suspect family entertainment and family-oriented retail will be one of them.

^

I think that sounds like a pretty good idea. With all of the retail development taking place elsewhere downtown, I don't see the mall concept working at US much longer. Having a singular concept, such as a "family" theme would probably be a good bet from a branding/identity standpoint, instead of trying to be all things to all people. Maybe have different stores and activities in a wide range of prices, so that a family could spend anywhere from $50 to $500 or more if they were so inclined.



Just as long as they validate parking...

I went with a group on Thursday to watch the Stars on Ice ice skating show at Scottrade Center. Went to US to eat at the food court around 6:25pm, show started at 7pm. We had Charleys Grilled subs and we were in US for no more than 30 mins, yet we still had to pay $2 for parking and the Charleys there is more expensive than the one at Chesterfield Mall for the same menu item. If Hwy 40 was still open we would have stopped at the Galleria's food court instead and not have to pay for parking at US along with paying less sales tax and for the meal. I don't understand why doesn't US have free parking after 6pm. Besides that, US seems to have more urban stores and empty store fronts than ever before. Its sad, but I don't care for to US, no reason to go there, why pay for parking to shop there when other places you can shop and park for free.

So let me get this straight. You paid to park for dinner, and instead of walking block to Scottrade, you went to your car, drove a block and parked again. That makes no sense. Was it the weather? US can't have free parking when there is an event at ST.

Moorlander wrote:So let me get this straight. You paid to park for dinner, and instead of walking block to Scottrade, you went to your car, drove a block and parked again. That makes no sense. US can't have free parking when there is an event at ST.

I would've walked from SC if I could, but the group with me didn't want to walk to US from the SC garage. They kept complaining it was cold and the sidewalks were still icy and snow covered.

^That happens sometimes...though I wonder if it's faster to walk than drive from the STC garage to US with that dreaded signal at Spruce and 18th and all.

Moorlander wrote:So let me get this straight. You paid to park for dinner, and instead of walking block to Scottrade, you went to your car, drove a block and parked again. That makes no sense. Was it the weather? US can't have free parking when there is an event at ST.

They could certainly give you the first hour of parking free, or allow stores to sell validation at a discount, or any number of things that would keep US from being a defacto metro park-n-ride or Kiel lot, while taking some of the sting away from having to pay to park just to spend money inside.

The short distances people refuse to walk amaze me.



I third (fourth?) the question about gang activity at US. Where is it? Where is the gang activity at Galleria?

^I think the reference was "perceived" gang activity. I don't recall trouble occurring at US, but they have a policy in place banning things like do-rags. IIRC, Nelly's entourage was kicked out because they refused to remove them back in 01 or 02.

Oh, OK. "Perceived" gang activity. Like the sort that's causing white flight from Hazelwood when all those Black doctors and lawyers move in. I got it.

Yes, didn't you know? Young black males = Perceived gang activity

ben1040 wrote:

Moorlander wrote:So let me get this straight. You paid to park for dinner, and instead of walking block to Scottrade, you went to your car, drove a block and parked again. That makes no sense. Was it the weather? US can't have free parking when there is an event at ST.

They could certainly give you the first hour of parking free, or allow stores to sell validation at a discount, or any number of things that would keep US from being a defacto metro park-n-ride or Kiel lot, while taking some of the sting away from having to pay to park just to spend money inside.

Actually Union Station does offer free parking, at least in theory, but not necessarily in pratice. They have a program for the merchants whereby they can buy $1 - 1/2 hour parking passes for $.30 and give as many as they want to any customer for any reason. The problem is none of the merchants want to participate in the program except for 4 merchants ie; Dog On It, CiCi, Fat Sassy's and Cioccolato. I know Cioccolato will give a half hour of parking for any purchase and sometimes runs a special of free half hour parking no purchase necessary. So my point is part of the parking problem lays on the shoulders of the merchants for not participating in this program. Doesn't make sense, sometimes they will discount their products by 10 to 50% when all they really have to do to intice the customer is give them a free 1/2 hour parking for a cost of $.30. Kinda explains the mentality of the majority of merchants at Union Station. They just don't get it. Begs the question, who is dumber the US management or the US merchants.

I third (fourth?) the question about gang activity at US. Where is it? Where is the gang activity at Galleria?

I'm referring to the article I read about a security firm that was hired to "flush out the gang activity at US". I believe it was an article in St. Louis Magazine several years ago. I forget the company as well as the guys name, sorry I can't reference it. For people who seem to think that the only difference in patrons between Frontenac and US is do rags, I just ask you to look at the "security desk" at US. The entire thing is covered in bars and plexi-glass, it looks like it's the command center for a prison. Whether these "perceptions" about crime at US are real or not, CLEARLY people felt UNCOMFORTABLE shopping there, which is why this mall failed. Again, this is one of SEVERAL reasons why it failed, not the ONLY one.

Oh, and the NEAR riot at the Galleria wasn't exactly a "perception" either. I'm actually just pissed I wasn't there to witness it. talk about entertainment! don't get me wrong, I still shop at the Galleria and would NEVER go all the way west to WCM, sick...

Today, when I walked by the Marquess Gallery at Union Station (The Baseball photography/print store) they were taking down everything in the store and packing it up. They have been closed since Christmas with a sign on their door "On Photo Shoot"

dweebe wrote:

lamiaposta wrote:Today, when I walked by the Marquess Gallery at Union Station (The Baseball photography/print store) they were taking down everything in the store and packing it up. They have been closed since Christmas with a sign on their door "On Photo Shoot"

Would the last person out please turn the lights off?



Any rumors on the food court closing?

I think the lights are already off, as Union Station has managed to keep everyone in the dark or maybe they are using a dimmer switch to gradually turn off the lights in hopes no one will notice its demise. #-o

Only through death can come rebirth...

It sounds more and more like management and ownership is purposely letting leases expire and not encouraging renewals or attempting to sign new leases on the retail spaces in the shed itself. The only new leases I can recall are for spaces on the perimeter of the shed and in the headhouse building. And those may be constructed to allow the US owners out of the lease at any time, with major incentives for the tenant of course.



It is complicated, but there are incentives for ownership to minimize the number of outstanding leases prior to a sale or foreclosure action - plus there can be tax incentives as well. An empty mall gives the new owners more flexibility and thus increases the value of the property. Any new owner isn't going to care about the current health or appearance of Union Station, unless they are complete idiots, because they would already know it has failed, and would have some other plan for the property. Noone is going to buy this building only to continue the existing retail formula. Existing leases would only hinder whatever plan they have in mind.



What has happened at Union Station over the last few years is not dissimilar to the sudden downturn at St. Louis Centre when Simon stopped advertising, stopped maintaining the building, and in general stopped living up to their lease obligations, and then discouraged lease renewals and did nothing to sign new tenants. I have often heard rumors from those involved that, early in the life of the mall, after St. Louis Centre failed to meet initial revenue projections, Simon enacted a plan of purposeful neglect to significantly hasten the mall's demise, because it was financially beneficial for them to do so. Apparently TIAA-CREF, or whatever it was called then, which was a partner with Simon, had some obligation or incentive to buy out Simon's share of the property and then negotiate a foreclosure. I don't remember all of the details, and in any case, it would probably only make sense if you could see all of the original financing and partnership agreements, but the neglect and relatively sudden demise of Union Station sounds familiar.

I was glad to see Union station PACKED for the NCAA Wrestling Championships. Good venue and Union Station looked pretty good for the event.



On another note:

A coupla things...I guess there is a place called Senor Julios in/near Union Station. I had a couple of beers there on Opening Day and watched drunk people fall off the mechanical bull. It's kind of Cancun-y. They have big garage doors which make it a very open type of place and it's huge which was kinda weird considering the relative lack of people. I don't know if it's technically a "Union Station" place or not. I had no idea it was there. And I find ALL the bars. I just happened past it going to meet some folk at that Maggie O'briens place.





Also, there's no reason US couldn't be a "real" mall. I can just imagine how terribly disappointing it must be to, say, be an out of town teen or young person and they go there and realize it's not really a "mall". Ouch.