^ We'll invite Jim on our new public access show!
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I agree that Union Station needs to keeep the shed, but US definitely needs to have residential. If the 22nd st interchange ever gets fixed it would help out US immensely. I was there for the first time in a couple years and it feels so touristy that I instantly remembered why I never go. With the proposed Ballpark Village and Pinnacle developments maybe they should build another hotel under the shed and make it a hotel district of sorts. It has great MetroLink access so it'd be perfect for tourists.
Another thing, I just got back from Vegas last week and checked out the Fremont Street TV. I wonder how much it'd cost to turn the shed into the world's largest TV.
Another thing, I just got back from Vegas last week and checked out the Fremont Street TV. I wonder how much it'd cost to turn the shed into the world's largest TV.
^ I have long thought that Fremont Street would be a good model for a potential Union Station rehab, though perhaps without all the lights and neon.
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JMedwick wrote:^ I have long thought that Fremont Street would be a good model for a potential Union Station rehab, though perhaps without all the lights and neon.
What is Fremont Street without the lights and neon? The Shed.
JM- I agree that the shed area could be so much more. My reservation is that there are many competing developments downtown and I just don't see how people will be lured off of Market, away from other developments to the shed, unless there's something there that's a necessity - like a grocery (though this may be covered elsewhere DT in the near future), a Target, IKEA/etc. What do you want Union Station to be?
There need to be more performances in Union Station, special events, and so forth. There is also a need for retail outside of Union Station. Unfortunately, again, you have the gateway mall in the way.
I think the shed is protected as a national historic site, isn't it?
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Xing wrote:There need to be more performances in Union Station, special events, and so forth. There is also a need for retail outside of Union Station. Unfortunately, again, you have the gateway mall in the way.
I agree, but this seems to be the solution for Kiener Plaza, the riverfront and the new OPO Plaza. How many movie screen/special event, performance areas can downtown sustain? (The Shed would be a great place for a huge outdoor movie screen!!)
I'm not saying they should copy off of Navy Pier, but me being in Chicago so much, I couldn't help but notice how similar Navy Pier is to Union Station. The biggest difference, however, is that Navy Pier is far more successful.
Another observation I've had, is how Navy Pier utilizes its outdoor space. Union Station's outdoor space is mostly a parking lot. The pond, seafood restaurant, and the paddle boats, are an excellent start, but what else?!
Another observation I've had, is how Navy Pier utilizes its outdoor space. Union Station's outdoor space is mostly a parking lot. The pond, seafood restaurant, and the paddle boats, are an excellent start, but what else?!
As long as the area remains cut off to the south by the railroad tracks/I-64/Ameren campus, to the west by 22nd st. interchange/AG Edwards, and bordered to the east by a largely single use CBD, I don't see the neighborhood retail scheme succeeding for US. If you could develop the area into a more self-sustaining residential center then maybe (and I sort of like the idea of multi-level shops, residential, and office under the shed to this end), but I wouldn't rely on the area's proximity to the near south side for patrons because of the barriers I just mentioned. Until these barriers are addressed, I agree more with Xing's point of view that the "attraction"/Navy Pier model is the way to go. Make it the type of place that tourists feel like they have to visit before they leave town, you can get crappy postcards and trinkets anywhere.
hmm...we've been looking for a place for an architecture museum right?
hmm...we've been looking for a place for an architecture museum right?
Since we're all simpletons and you're obviously smarter than all of us, what do you propose be done with Union Station?
well, I would put blame with the owners, not the management/ leasing company.
-STOP charging for parking. If they are indeed an interior mall, what other large interior mall charge for parking in the region? This is an absolute joke. It's not like it's two bucks either, it's closer to $8
-remodel the existing concourses, they need a bit of an upgrade
-promote more concerts, etc. things that bring young, trendy people back. Big Head Todd, The Samples, used to be big draws, maybe not so much anymore, but you get the idea.
-redevelop the outdoor area into local bar establishments perhaps? I know I don't go to cheesy chain restaurants like the ones offered outside. Maybe tourists do.
-get rid of any sports apparel store that caters to a young crowd. The type of crowd that US got rid of when they hired the security company to get rid of the gang activity there several years ago.
This building is a tremendous asset. It could easily still be the tourist destination that it once was. That building could be the train terminal in London- it's incredible. The problem is the charging for parking and that people began to feel uncomfortable with some of the clientèle that was going there.
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Now that the Hyatt bought the Adams Mark, do they really need US anymore. For them, US is off the beaten path and the Adams Mark puts them right in the midst of downtown. Do they need two? If you look at the hotel rooms being booked for conventions, the Hyatt is the last to get booked or doesn't get booked at all for some conventions and the baseball teams used to stay at the Hyatt and only a couple teams now book here. If the Hyatt moves out, this would greatly affect US, although I am sure some other hotel chain would pick it up, maybe Days Inn or Red Roof and they could paint the train shed roof red
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^
That's a fair question. I wondered that myself when I heard the news, but then I thought I was being too negative.
That's a fair question. I wondered that myself when I heard the news, but then I thought I was being too negative.
The question would be "Are these two hotels owned by Hyatt, or are they just flagged Hyatt's" If Hyatt owns them both than there could be some trouble for US, however if these are owned by seperate entities then one opening would not affet the other as much unless Hyatt only wanted one in the DT area.
I remember reading a little back though that Hyatt Union Station is one of the most profitable downtown hotels and business traveler hotels. The Hyatt/Starwood company announced in the spring that it is agressively opening and expanding hotels in STL.
Now that the Hyatt bought the Adams Mark, do they really need US anymore.
Just like Drury, Hilton, Hampton Inns - all having more than one location in downtown STL - I think this is a move on Hyatt to see the profits as well. With Adam's Mark and the Union Station Hyatt - they will compliment each other well - especially with Union Station Hyatt only having around 200 rooms and the new Hyatt having 900 rooms.
Now that the Hyatt bought the Adams Mark, do they really need US anymore.
Just like Drury, Hilton, Hampton Inns - all having more than one location in downtown STL - I think this is a move on Hyatt to see the profits as well. With Adam's Mark and the Union Station Hyatt - they will compliment each other well - especially with Union Station Hyatt only having around 200 rooms and the new Hyatt having 900 rooms.
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Well, a couple more business casualties at Union Station. At the end of August the following businesses closed
Comedy Club, although this I expected
TKO, got their doors locked by US
Discovery Store, finally completed their closing
Nut Hut, he is seasonal, but said he would not be back next year
Spa to Go, I think got asked to leave. One morning I saw one of the owners washing his hair at the kiosk
Walk and Roll, couldn't wait to leave
Henna Tattoo, seemed anxious to leave also
The last three I listed, were pretty unprofessional. Their leaving is a positive note. But it seems to be the trend now when they bring in a new business, ie, very unprofessional and dress in blue jeans and tshirts. I think this is just another bad reflection on US.
Another store at US started selling air pistols and rifles and looks like a gun shop.
At the end of September or sooner, one of the restaurants is going to close, but I'll withhold the name for now until the doors are shut.
Interestingly enough, in the US newsletter they bragged about having a 6% increase in revenue for July, with the Discovery store showing a 225% increase and the beauty shop which is never busy had an increase of 72%. They did report that 21 businesses had increases for July, most of which were in the food business. Always strikes me as odd that when a store goes out of business they have a tremendous increase and US brags about it.
On the retail end, there is not one recognizable name brand store left in US except for the Bud shop and Cardinal store and it just keeps looking more and more like St. Louis Centre. Some days merchants don't even take in $50.
Although if a merchant tries to add something new to their store, normally they are told they can not or if a new tenant comes along latter and wants to sell that product they will have to stop. Basically, if it is not in your lease when you signed up, you might as well forgot about any changes to your store or improving your store financially.
It just seems to get bleaker and bleaker here.
Comedy Club, although this I expected
TKO, got their doors locked by US
Discovery Store, finally completed their closing
Nut Hut, he is seasonal, but said he would not be back next year
Spa to Go, I think got asked to leave. One morning I saw one of the owners washing his hair at the kiosk
Walk and Roll, couldn't wait to leave
Henna Tattoo, seemed anxious to leave also
The last three I listed, were pretty unprofessional. Their leaving is a positive note. But it seems to be the trend now when they bring in a new business, ie, very unprofessional and dress in blue jeans and tshirts. I think this is just another bad reflection on US.
Another store at US started selling air pistols and rifles and looks like a gun shop.
At the end of September or sooner, one of the restaurants is going to close, but I'll withhold the name for now until the doors are shut.
Interestingly enough, in the US newsletter they bragged about having a 6% increase in revenue for July, with the Discovery store showing a 225% increase and the beauty shop which is never busy had an increase of 72%. They did report that 21 businesses had increases for July, most of which were in the food business. Always strikes me as odd that when a store goes out of business they have a tremendous increase and US brags about it.
On the retail end, there is not one recognizable name brand store left in US except for the Bud shop and Cardinal store and it just keeps looking more and more like St. Louis Centre. Some days merchants don't even take in $50.
Although if a merchant tries to add something new to their store, normally they are told they can not or if a new tenant comes along latter and wants to sell that product they will have to stop. Basically, if it is not in your lease when you signed up, you might as well forgot about any changes to your store or improving your store financially.
It just seems to get bleaker and bleaker here.
lamiaposta wrote:Well, a couple more business casualties at Union Station. At the end of August the following businesses closed
Comedy Club, although this I expected
TKO, got their doors locked by US
Discovery Store, finally completed their closing
Nut Hut, he is seasonal, but said he would not be back next year
Spa to Go, I think got asked to leave. One morning I saw one of the owners washing his hair at the kiosk
Walk and Roll, couldn't wait to leave
Henna Tattoo, seemed anxious to leave also
The last three I listed, were pretty unprofessional. Their leaving is a positive note. But it seems to be the trend now when they bring in a new business, ie, very unprofessional and dress in blue jeans and tshirts. I think this is just another bad reflection on US.
Another store at US started selling air pistols and rifles and looks like a gun shop.
At the end of September or sooner, one of the restaurants is going to close, but I'll withhold the name for now until the doors are shut.
Interestingly enough, in the US newsletter they bragged about having a 6% increase in revenue for July, with the Discovery store showing a 225% increase and the beauty shop which is never busy had an increase of 72%. They did report that 21 businesses had increases for July, most of which were in the food business. Always strikes me as odd that when a store goes out of business they have a tremendous increase and US brags about it.
On the retail end, there is not one recognizable name brand store left in US except for the Bud shop and Cardinal store and it just keeps looking more and more like St. Louis Centre. Some days merchants don't even take in $50.
Although if a merchant tries to add something new to their store, normally they are told they can not or if a new tenant comes along latter and wants to sell that product they will have to stop. Basically, if it is not in your lease when you signed up, you might as well forgot about any changes to your store or improving your store financially.
It just seems to get bleaker and bleaker here.
How long did TKO last? 4 months?
The other restaurant closing: food court or sit down?
The prime difference between the Adam's Mark location and US is potential I think. The Union Station Hyatt has the greater potential to carve a very unique niche.
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The key to the Adam's Mark is the I-70 lid. I'm surprised that they, along with some other businesses, aren't really pushing this. Then again, maybe they are.
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I happened to stay at the US Hyatt over Labour Day weekend. I stay there from August 30th-Sept 4th. That whole weekend the hotel was sold out. The reason I stayed there was my sister had a wedding at this Hyatt and a party in the Grand Hall on Sunday. My relatives and sister's friends also stayed there. Many of them took Megabus from Chicago, Columbus, and Indy to attend the wedding.
From what I saw the mall was packed with the Cardinals crowd and tourists. The there were quite a few Reds fans staying there too. Einstein Bagels was very busy in the mornings! Also, noticed there were a lot of vacant storefronts too, but a lot of people in the mall, but I don't think they were buying anything though.
How long can they hold on like this, but it seems the Hyatt still does well.
From what I saw the mall was packed with the Cardinals crowd and tourists. The there were quite a few Reds fans staying there too. Einstein Bagels was very busy in the mornings! Also, noticed there were a lot of vacant storefronts too, but a lot of people in the mall, but I don't think they were buying anything though.
How long can they hold on like this, but it seems the Hyatt still does well.
On the retail end, there is not one recognizable name brand store left in US except for the Bud shop and Cardinal store and it just keeps looking more and more like St. Louis Centre.
Uh, Lids is still there, and it's definitely a name brand store. A name brand store that was just remodeled and expanded. And also posting increases.
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Is that Starbucks staying open or is it closing? last weekend I was there it was kinda busy. I don't see why they would want to close it down....is it other days business is poor?
shannon wrote:On the retail end, there is not one recognizable name brand store left in US except for the Bud shop and Cardinal store and it just keeps looking more and more like St. Louis Centre.
Uh, Lids is still there, and it's definitely a name brand store. A name brand store that was just remodeled and expanded. And also posting increases.
Well, that makes everything fine and dandy.
^ I'm sorry, did I say that makes everything fine and dandy? I was simply pointing out that a supposedly "de facto" statement was actually erroneous and that, additionally, a national chain has (amazingly) invested in it's Union Station store for a change. Just thought I'd switch things up with a little positivity to make life more interesting. Woohoo!
So why not let US claim a victory in the game of mediocrity and chalk up a +1 in the win column on this one? Kind of like awarding a retard a medal for finding the finish line at the Special Olympics.
So why not let US claim a victory in the game of mediocrity and chalk up a +1 in the win column on this one? Kind of like awarding a retard a medal for finding the finish line at the Special Olympics.
So why not let US claim a victory in the game of mediocrity and chalk up a +1 in the win column on this one? Kind of like awarding a retard a medal for finding the finish line at the Special Olympics.
Brutal! But kinda funny.
Grover wrote:The key to the Adam's Mark is the I-70 lid. I'm surprised that they, along with some other businesses, aren't really pushing this. Then again, maybe they are.
A bit of historical irony here: The original proposal for a "lid" came from...the Adam's Mark. In 1984 or '85. Unfortunately, it involved turning Ely Smith into a parking garage under the lid -- plus Fred Kummer hadn't exactly endeared himself to the local architecture or preservation community for his initial proposal for what the Adam's Mark was supposed to look like. (Hint: You would have wanted Ed Boxx to decorate it -- it would have been an improvement.)
In usual St. Louis fashion, Schoemehl appointed a blue-ribbon commission to examine alternatives, and they came back with a new one -- in 1986. And we all know how quickly that got built.
Ahh, but if the City just takes control of the Arch grounds, all will be made well.
