urbanSTL

Have to agree with jlblues...



This "revitalization plan" is either a big push to catch up on deferred maintenance, or a PR person's idea to publicize regular maintenance that should be done to any large historic buildings. No changes or upgrades were included as a part of their plan. The only contractor they spoke with was a waterproofer.



Also any mall that has an abundance of "independent" stores is not enjoying the performance that was expected. So the mall might have the same occupancy % as most other malls but the stores at Union Station are paying significanly lower rents.



While Union Station may be holding its own, it can hardly be classified as successful, and some major changes would probably help.

MattonArsenal wrote:Also any mall that has an abundance of "independent" stores is not enjoying the performance that was expected. So the mall might have the same occupancy % as most other malls but the stores at Union Station are paying significanly lower rents.



While Union Station may be holding its own, it can hardly be classified as successful, and some major changes would probably help.

Let's also note that nationally, malls are having more trouble than in their heyday of the 1970-80s. When Westfield can't figure out what to do with Northwest OR Crestwood, and even Chesterfield has noticable vacancy, we shouldn't be surprised that something more "niche" like Union Station doesn't draw in the major chains.



That being said, I would like to see a development that can sustain the mall in a way that works for the tourists (local and business) AND the local-to-downtown customers.

I think the savior of Union Station will ultimately be Chouteau Lake/Greenway IF they provide a well-designed connection between the two. From the renderings I have seen, it appears as though nothing at all is envisioned other than some new buildings west of Union Station. Actually, they should make Union Station a focal point of the western half of the downtown portion of the project, providing maximum development density just south of Union Station, and making it the gateway to downtown from that half of the CLG project - the new ballpark being the gateway for the eatern half. This could be done either with a signature mixed-use building of some sort, like the MW Tower proposal, or perhaps with a museum, or even, dare I say, the long-awaited aquarium. SOMETHING to attract more tourists, more locals, more nearby residents, AND more office workers. I think it needs to be able to attract all of these to survive.

I wish they would get going on the rebuilding/removal of all those highway ramps west of Union Station. There's an awful lot of land going to waste. Imagine Market Street densely built-up from 20th Street on up to Jefferson. That would sure help out Union Station.

^Sadly, the holdup on rebuilding the 22nd interchange and resulting street grid is not MODOT, but the City. Collectively, the rebuilding could free up over 24 acres of new land (separate from, or in addition to, new streets) on over six blocks bounded by Olive (N), 20th (E), Scott (S) and 23rd (W) streets.

I recently toured the hotel for a conference site. I was impressed and amazed by the rooms in the old station part of the hotel. Definately recommend it to your out-of-town guests or business travelers!

^The hold-ups are money and marketing. But as a chicken-or-egg dilemma, the City (SLDC) has a hard time marketing land that currently doesn't exist on the market. Of course, since developers like clear timeframes and commitments from the public sector, MODOT can be blamed for placing too many contigencies on the deal.

southslider wrote:^The hold-ups are money and marketing. But as a chicken-or-egg dilemma, the City (SLDC) has a hard time marketing land that currently doesn't exist on the market. Of course, since developers like clear timeframes and commitments from the public sector, MODOT can be blamed for placing too many contigencies on the deal.

And in the meantime we have a nearly useless interstate-class interchange that has been hoarding downtown-west real estate for about 30 years.

southslider wrote:^Sadly, the holdup on rebuilding the 22nd interchange and resulting street grid is not MODOT, but the City. Collectively, the rebuilding could free up over 24 acres of new land (separate from, or in addition to, new streets) on over six blocks bounded by Olive (N), 20th (E), Scott (S) and 23rd (W) streets.

Wow - 24 acres is huge. Talk about an amazing opportunity.



Milwaukee has undertaken a similar project with the demolition of its Park East Freeway (which was basically a highway that just ended abruptly and was never fully incorporated into the highway system) and is now adding lots of new development in the land that has been freed up.

union station used to be a huge gathering place for people entering and leaving the city...could a supermarket be incorporated into union station... then it could be seen once again as a gatherplace of sorts. With people from all over downtown gathering to purchase everyday goods?? There is already parking/metro/and it could be close enough for some to walk.

bpe235 wrote:union station used to be a huge gathering place for people entering and leaving the city...could a supermarket be incorporated into union station... then it could be seen once again as a gatherplace of sorts. With people from all over downtown gathering to purchase everyday goods?? There is already parking/metro/and it could be close enough for some to walk.

You know, that actually is a pretty good idea. It would satisfy those wanting a supermarket, without offending those--like me--who don't want to see a sprawling big-box type place surrounded by parking.

And a Union Station supermarket, would be Metrolink accessible, making it easier for those that want to live on a Metrolink line without a car. It would become the grocer for the entire Metrolink system. I can't think of another supermarket in St. Louis on the Metrolink line at this time.



People will go several Metro stops to a good supermarket. For instances, carless students at Wash U or carless CWE/DeBaliveire residents, & downtowners would ride down to Union Station for a really good and handy supermarket. You would start seeing people with lots of grocery bags on Metro.

Expat wrote:And a Union Station supermarket, would be Metrolink accessible, making it easier for those that want to live on a Metrolink line without a car. It would become the grocer for the entire Metrolink system. I can't think of another supermarket in St. Louis on the Metrolink line at this time.



People will go several Metro stops to a good supermarket. For instances, carless students at Wash U or carless CWE residents, & downtowners would ride down to Union Station for a really good and handy supermarket. You would start seeing people with lots of grocery bags on Metro.

The hanley and 40 stop is right next to the dierbergs...but thats in the county

But, will it be really handy? Carrying groceries from the store to the station? That is important.

Expat wrote:And a Union Station supermarket, would be Metrolink accessible, making it easier for those that want to live on a Metrolink line without a car. It would become the grocer for the entire Metrolink system. I can't think of another supermarket in St. Louis on the Metrolink line at this time.



People will go several Metro stops to a good supermarket. For instances, carless students at Wash U or carless CWE/DeBaliveire residents, & downtowners would ride down to Union Station for a really good and handy supermarket. You would start seeing people with lots of grocery bags on Metro.

From what I've seen, Wash U students tend to use the WU shuttle system which stops by the Schnucks on Olive Rd and Clayton Rd (different lines). I'm not sure even the new WU MetroPass would change things much (e.g., traveling DT for groceries via MetroLink or MetroBus). I've always wished there were a small market in the loop though.

JMedwick wrote:I belive it is up a hill and over a fence to get to and from that dierbergs, as the owners of the shopping center didn't want access to metrolink from their parking lot.

Ah those urban-minded Dierbergs. No stores in the city, bank headquartered in the County, etc.

Ok, the point is, there needs to be at least one good supermarket on the Metrolink system. This will make the system more valuable and make it easier for people that want to be or have to be car free. And I think Union Station is as good as any place to have this store. So, whoever thought of it first, I agree with you. Also, the anchor of a major supermarket will put more customers into Union Station - and not just tourist. And people that live in the Wash U area would ride down to Union Station for groceries and other things if it were convenient. That is how it works in DC.

JMedwick wrote:I belive it is up a hill and over a fence to get to and from that dierbergs, as the owners of the shopping center didn't want access to metrolink from their parking lot.

There is actually a ADA accessible ramp from the station to the parking lot. It's exits just a little past where the parking lot turns into an access road for Hanley Industrial Ct. It doesn't appear to be too bad of a walk. It's not as convenient as it could be, but what's there is not too bad.

JMedwick wrote:LOL^ Glad to see that Expat has reached the "totally addicted" level.



Ok back on topic... Do you know whether as part of the realingment of the Wash U shuttle system with the new metrolink, it will still run to the schnucks along Clayton?

LOL -- I have been totally addicted for a long time. I guess this makes it official.



And like JMedwick, I am glad that Dierbergs will be accessible for Metro users. This is important for the Metro system. Give people a reason to rely on the system.



OK - back to Union Station.............

Expat wrote:...And people that live in the Wash U area would ride down to Union Station for groceries and other things if it were convenient. That is how it works in DC.

That's a long trek for it to be considered convenient (for groceries, at least), especially considering the more local alternatives and the additional forms of transport available to WU-afflilated people.

JMedwick wrote:LOL^ Glad to see that Expat has reached the "totally addicted" level.



Ok back on topic... Do you know whether as part of the realingment of the Wash U shuttle system with the new metrolink, it will still run to the schnucks along Clayton?

Yes (as proposed), but with "service provided by Metro."

WU-Metro route map