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PostOct 09, 2020#151

sc4mayor wrote:^^ Lol...this urbanist would rather see $500 million spent on the state’s existing MetroLink (STL) or streetcar (KC) lines instead of a test track for an unproven technology. The idea that Missouri, a state that can’t even properly fund public education would somehow scrape together the estimated $10 billion+ this thing would cost in today’s dollars is maybe the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.

And adding a 3rd lane on highway 70 in the rural stretches isn’t about embracing sprawl but addressing the rampant safety issues with that highway. I lived in KC for 13 years and have driven that drive more times than I can count, it’s dangerous and it’s overcrowded (the climbing lanes under construction at Mineola will definitely help). I don’t think a third lane is going to lead to St. Louis (a region with no population growth anyway) to sprawl out into Calloway County or other places.

And bring on high-speed rail. Idai suggested 100+ but you can run a lot faster than that nowadays. Be a hell of lot cheaper than this tube too and WAY, WAY easier to get into the densely populated cores of the cities. Where we gonna build these tubes in the built up regions of St. Louis and KC? Can’t exactly run it down the middle of the highway in the cities.
The interstate highway system is already graded for a 100-125 mph train in most places. It only costs ~$3-4 million per mile to lay track if you have the grading sorted out - much cheaper and more realistic for us than any true high speed (sadly).

“Interstate Rail” is an interesting analysis on what could be done for relatively cheap using our existing highway system. The author of that report proposes building over one side of the highway but MO had enough ROW that that isn’t necessary.

http://www.carfree.com/papers/interstaterail.html

PostOct 09, 2020#152

Laife Fulk wrote:The technology is suspect at best.  If you haven't watch the video idai_phs posted, you really should.

That's why I'm happy they passed on Missouri. If the state wants to be ahead of the curve, then it first has to catch up to the curve and actually invest in the bare bones basic public transit infrastructure.  
Bad News: Missouri remains in competition for the first line and the groups advocating for that are still going strong.

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PostOct 09, 2020#153

Illinois is good at burning money, let’s send the hyperloop there.

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PostOct 09, 2020#154

Or just let Hyperloop fund their own enterprise? 

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PostOct 09, 2020#155

^THIS^

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PostOct 09, 2020#156

ldai_phs wrote:
Oct 09, 2020
Laife Fulk wrote:The technology is suspect at best.  If you haven't watch the video idai_phs posted, you really should.

That's why I'm happy they passed on Missouri. If the state wants to be ahead of the curve, then it first has to catch up to the curve and actually invest in the bare bones basic public transit infrastructure.  
Bad News: Missouri remains in competition for the first line and the groups advocating for that are still going strong.
The main group advocating for it has shut down operations after Rex stopped funding it. And the main guy steering the effort is no longer with the group.

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PostOct 09, 2020#157

Y'all have seen The Music Man, right? Or more appropriately, the Monorail episode of The Simpsons?  

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PostOct 14, 2020#158

Virgin Hyperloop still has its eye on Missouri to transport passengers in tubes
https://www.missourinet.com/2020/10/13/ ... -missouri/

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PostOct 18, 2020#159


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PostOct 20, 2020#160

'This was ours to lose'

How St. Louis' promising hyperloop bid collapsed
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... ailed.html

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PostOct 20, 2020#161

^ Long story short it would have cost upward of $50 million in public money. The state wouldn’t commit it (and STL doesn’t have it) because it didn’t want to pick sides between STL and KC (especially since it appears STL’s plan ditched KC for a better route to one of Chicago’s airports).

The test track here would have been built by the airport and run up towards 270 (though MoDot refused to let them use the highway ROW, also a deciding factor for Virgin) and then should the technology work it would have crossed the river and continued along 55 to Chicago. Discussions were had with several agencies in that city too and they were apparently quite receptive.

Also mentioned in going against STL is the failure of airport privatization. Which I think is bullsh*t...just so happens Rex’s former lobbying arm was leading both initiatives.

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PostOct 20, 2020#162

chris fuller wrote:
Oct 20, 2020
'This was ours to lose'

How St. Louis' promising hyperloop bid collapsed
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... ailed.html
What a blame game of an interview this was. Jeez. Quite frankly, and in my opinion, its good that we lost out on this and will most likely lose out on the first "line" built. It's extremely expensive and is unproven technology. 

Some would like it to happen because of how it draws our cities closer together (like you could live in Kansas City or Chicago, but work in St. Louis). I would prefer we focus our attention on investing in our passenger rail between STL and KC and STL and Chicago. Get Illinois up and running at 110mph and begin working on a STL to KC 110mph corridor. After that, let's start looking into running trains at a faster speed between these cities and, maybe even one day, begin building a high speed rail line, like what is seen in Germany with the Deutsche Bahn.

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PostOct 20, 2020#163

silver bullet dodged.

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PostOct 20, 2020#164

^^ I was watching this years old Modern Marvels episode the other day, I think it was about locomotives, and the TGV in France had a locomotive that could reach more than 300mph.  I think at the time it was a speed record.  Don't know why the powers that be here are so boned up about the HyperLoop.  10 years ago we could have had high speed, core to core, train travel between STL and Chicago (or KC) that would take only an hour or two, maybe less.

Instead they're blaming losing out on this on our lack of a privatized airport.  What a joke lol.

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PostOct 21, 2020#165

Here's to hoping a Biden admin has some HSR money to throw around

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PostOct 21, 2020#166

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:Here's to hoping a Biden admin has some HSR money to throw around
MODOT estimates widening i70 to cost $1.5-2 billion. That’s around what Illinois spend to upgrade their line to 110mph.

I wonder if that’s around what it would cost to lay a new rail line along i70.

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PostOct 21, 2020#167

lol st louisans are really weird....celebrating a loss to be leaders in a game changing technology.....50 million is penuts....I'm pretty sure we've spent close to that much on dozens of Metrolink studies that have said the same thing for decades......how much did we pay for the Rams task force??? 

A hyperloop that allows people to live in St. Louis and work in Chicago.....a global alpha city.......that's about the biggest game changer Saint Louis could realistically hope for....

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PostOct 21, 2020#168

RuskiSTL wrote:lol st louisans are really weird....celebrating a loss to be leaders in a game changing technology.....50 million is penuts....I'm pretty sure we've spent close to that much on dozens of Metrolink studies that have said the same thing for decades......how much did we pay for the Rams task force??? 

A hyperloop that allows people to live in St. Louis and work in Chicago.....a global alpha city.......that's about the biggest game changer Saint Louis could realistically hope for....
It’s not a game-changing idea though. The idea has been around since the early 1900s. They have no real new technologies and haven’t been able to demonstrate any of their claims. We have maglev trains already. Hyperloop is just one of those in a tube. At best hyperloop is an over-engineered and more expensive version of existing tech with few to no benefits. Why waste money on an unproven system when we could use proven technology to achieve the same result for cheaper?

West Virginia won because they are desperate and willing to throw money at anything. I recommend reading about the Personal Rapid Transit system they built in the 1970's. TLDR: West Virginia jumped on an unproven technology by building the test route. Ended up being 10 times over budget and didn't really do anything that existing technology didn't do better and/or cheaper.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgantown_Personal_Rapid_Transit

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PostOct 21, 2020#169

electric cars have been around since the early 1900s too and now we have tesla....technology takes time to build.

How much does MODOT spend on massive roads and their associated infrastructure in exurbs? I'm sure you could find 50million in that budget pretty quickly.

Look I'm highly skeptical about hyperloop, I'd be much more excited by maglev. I just don't get how folks can get so excited at it's demise when it's the only exciting and existing transportation project going in STL right now. That 110 mph train, lightning fast!.....in 1905! wahoooo! has taken over a decade and it still doesn't go from STL to CHI and has saved what, 30 min off the trip if that? 

I don't trust local leaders on transit any more than I go swimming in river des peres. At least with the hyperloop you have a successful international business, with a real incentive to make sure the thing crosses the finish line. Not to mention Virgin already is investing 500million into WV, including 150-200 premium paying engineering so that right there is already probably 3x that 50mil over 10 years, not to mention the thousands of construction jobs. big fail here. 

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PostOct 21, 2020#170

RuskiSTL wrote:electric cars have been around since the early 1900s too and now we have tesla....technology takes time to build.

How much does MODOT spend on massive roads and their associated infrastructure in exurbs? I'm sure you could find 50million in that budget pretty quickly.

Look I'm highly skeptical about hyperloop, I'd be much more excited by maglev. I just don't get how folks can get so excited at it's demise when it's the only exciting and existing transportation project going in STL right now. That 110 mph train, lightning fast!.....in 1905! wahoooo! has taken over a decade and it still doesn't go from STL to CHI and has saved what, 30 min off the trip if that? 

I don't trust local leaders on transit any more than I go swimming in river des peres. At least with the hyperloop you have a successful international business, with a real incentive to make sure the thing crosses the finish line. Not to mention Virgin already is investing 500million into WV, including 150-200 premium paying engineering so that right there is already probably 3x that 50mil over 10 years, not to mention the thousands of construction jobs. big fail here. 
$50 million is something like 1/6 or 1/10th of the MODOT construction budget. That’s about half of what they are putting into replacing one of the busiest state owned bridges in the KC Metro(they already dropped half the tab on the city and feds). MODOT has no money. Additionally, the state had to be willing to make a similar expenditure no matter which city in the state was picked.

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PostOct 21, 2020#171

1/24th. But 1/6th of stl district, who would have had to fund it out of its budget and the decision would have had to been made by EWG and basically it would have never been approved

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PostOct 21, 2020#172

RuskiSTL wrote:
Oct 21, 2020
electric cars have been around since the early 1900s too and now we have tesla....technology takes time to build.

How much does MODOT spend on massive roads and their associated infrastructure in exurbs? I'm sure you could find 50million in that budget pretty quickly.

Look I'm highly skeptical about hyperloop, I'd be much more excited by maglev. I just don't get how folks can get so excited at it's demise when it's the only exciting and existing transportation project going in STL right now. That 110 mph train, lightning fast!.....in 1905! wahoooo! has taken over a decade and it still doesn't go from STL to CHI and has saved what, 30 min off the trip if that? 

I don't trust local leaders on transit any more than I go swimming in river des peres. At least with the hyperloop you have a successful international business, with a real incentive to make sure the thing crosses the finish line. Not to mention Virgin already is investing 500million into WV, including 150-200 premium paying engineering so that right there is already probably 3x that 50mil over 10 years, not to mention the thousands of construction jobs. big fail here. 
Virgin may be a successful company but successful companies fund failed ventures all the time (or partially fund in this case given that they're trying to externalize their risk with public subsidies). if people want to throw private money at Hyperloop i'm all for it, but we shouldn't be spending taxpayer money on a highest-hanging fruit that would, at best, marginally improve upon existing technology while we let proven modes of transit languish. sure, you might get significantly faster speeds with Hyperloop—eventually—but at like 20x the infrastructure cost. also not seeing how our lackluster rail system somehow justifies throwing more money at Hyperloop. it's not that proven rail technology doesn't exist, it's that the U.S. let it languish for a hundred years while the rest of the world steadily upgraded. and that's because the U.S. cares more about capitalism (and corporate welfare) than about being functional.

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PostOct 22, 2020#173

^ Virgin did recently back out of a deal for naming rights of Brightline in Florida. Is it possible they had developed enough confidence in the science and business model to pull off traditional HSR?

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PostOct 22, 2020#174

addxb2 wrote:^ Virgin did recently back out of a deal for naming rights of Brightline in Florida. Is it possible they had developed enough confidence in the science and business model to pull off traditional HSR?
Virgin didn’t have enough funds for the contracted branding deal and so Brightline kicked them out.

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PostOct 22, 2020#175

^ oh wow. I forgot to follow up, wasn’t aware more info got out. That’s unfortunate.

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