We'll only know the real truth once Stan stops holding this badly scarred city hostage.. Till then all we can do is continue to speculate
The message from the Chicago based sports consultant in JT's article this morning: Get your $hit together and act like you want this team, STL. Also Dari and Mel just kicked off their show on ESPN radio about the many contributors to the network that grew up LA Rams fans and would love to see a team back, as well as the freakout session occurring among STL fans right now. Not the best "STL in the National Media" but hopefully ends like Minnesota. I yearn for the day that our debates lean toward the architectural/urban decisions of a stadium instead of the pondering its existence.
^^That is just going to piss people off more. St. Louis football fans have had to put up with so much, now people want to rag on them because they are skittish about sinking thousands of dollars into a team that the owner is purposefully sending threats around? Oh, I guess we should feel blessed to have any football, right?
St.Louis suffers from very low self esteem so it's a natural selection for the likes of publishers such as Forbes and so forth to pick on STL .The local media is so obsessed about everything negative that's first they start off with.. The Post D never hardly ever have anything positive to say it's always something negative.. I wonder who created this storm???
A Chicago based consultant has no room to say anything as corrupt as Chicago and the state of Illinois is..
This is how i feel about L.A. If they really wanted a team they would have supported the Charger's Raider's Ram's.They didn't
Lost all 3 so there for they can wait their turn!
All i can say to L.A. is go play with your thistle and leave STL alone you had 3 chances....
A Chicago based consultant has no room to say anything as corrupt as Chicago and the state of Illinois is..
This is how i feel about L.A. If they really wanted a team they would have supported the Charger's Raider's Ram's.They didn't
Lost all 3 so there for they can wait their turn!
All i can say to L.A. is go play with your thistle and leave STL alone you had 3 chances....
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^Yes.
Were he planning to move, he wouldn't have bought the land. He'd have gotten LA begging until they *gave* him the land and a new stadium for free. His current actions only make sense as a pressuring tactic. It's like friending your ex after an argument with your girlfriend. He's just reminding us that he could potentially have options out there. Nothing more.
Nothing to worry about. I might suggest he give us a few winning seasons instead. Carrot not stick, Stan.
Were he planning to move, he wouldn't have bought the land. He'd have gotten LA begging until they *gave* him the land and a new stadium for free. His current actions only make sense as a pressuring tactic. It's like friending your ex after an argument with your girlfriend. He's just reminding us that he could potentially have options out there. Nothing more.
Nothing to worry about. I might suggest he give us a few winning seasons instead. Carrot not stick, Stan.
I wrote about this more indepth in the BPV thread, but owners are increasingly looking to capitalize on land development surrounding their stadiums. But can downtown really support two such mega-developments? BPV, however immature, is the incumbent and could prevent Kroenke from realizing a similar vision.
If this is important to Kroenke, might it be incentive for him to leave downtown?
If this is important to Kroenke, might it be incentive for him to leave downtown?
It seems this is where big local players with some money and some balls need to convince him that downtown is worth the investment, like McKee. If I were making the presentation I'd say screw BPV: Dewitt and company have taken 8 years to build a lemonade stand. Let's show this city what big thinkers can do and really develop something no one else in the country is doing in a venue like downtown St. Louis. Now if it turns out downtown is not really viable, well than at least someone with a vision gave it a try. Next stop: elsewhere in the city, next stop county, next stop....1987.
Also, I may have communicated poorly earlier. In defense of Dari and Mel, they were not ragging on STL fans as much as saying that the fans are worried about the future.
Plaschke spoke out today too which the PD posted along with McClellan's warm and fuzzy thoughts. I think that if this media circus continues between LA and STL, the repercussions of this decision of how we are viewed will be even more influential than I originally anticipated.
The attendance debate we had in October is now as predicted being pushed in our face repeatedly for what it's worth.
Also, I may have communicated poorly earlier. In defense of Dari and Mel, they were not ragging on STL fans as much as saying that the fans are worried about the future.
Plaschke spoke out today too which the PD posted along with McClellan's warm and fuzzy thoughts. I think that if this media circus continues between LA and STL, the repercussions of this decision of how we are viewed will be even more influential than I originally anticipated.
The attendance debate we had in October is now as predicted being pushed in our face repeatedly for what it's worth.
The only thing we might have going for us in that area was the general league-wide downturn in attendance for the whole league this last season.blzhrpmd2 wrote:The attendance debate we had in October is now as predicted being pushed in our face repeatedly for what it's worth.
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A minor point, but a recent ruling allowing more events at the Rose Bowl suggest an NFL team could temporarily play there (to the chagrin of the Pasadena residents). The Rose Bowl is a more attractive venue because it already has luxury suites and club seats, unlike the coliseum. The downside is the worse traffic/parking situation, but that's usually an afterthought anyway.Knowitall wrote:Any NFL team that wants to have a new home for the 2015 season has to apply before Feb 15th of 2014. Stan just got this land, there is no chance in hack that you can get anything off the ground in 2 weeks.
And if Stan wanted to leave, he would do it ASAP and play at USCs stadium while his was built, that way he isn't stuck here for years of awful revenues here while his stadium is being built.
http://thebiglead.com/2014/02/01/st-lou ... -the-moon/
At least one player following closely. Mike Shannon may have to make some guest appearances in the box with Steve and D'Marco for the new Rams.
At least one player following closely. Mike Shannon may have to make some guest appearances in the box with Steve and D'Marco for the new Rams.
Not sure what you mean by that.blzhrpmd2 wrote:http://thebiglead.com/2014/02/01/st-lou ... -the-moon/
At least one player following closely. Mike Shannon may have to make some guest appearances in the box with Steve and D'Marco for the new Rams.
But there are rumors that since Dan Dierdorf retired from CBS, he might do some local work.
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Here is a pretty level-headed assessment from a LA Times columnist:
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football ... cef4c.html
Basically he says this land deal substantially moves the line of scrimmage closer to LA than anything done previously.... we now have a billionaire NFL owner purchasing a plot of land suitable for an NFL stadium. Significant hurdles remain (and it appears flight path is an issue) but that this is the first development that "feels real".
Excerpt:
It was revealed on Friday that Stan Kroenke, owner of the St. Louis Rams, has quietly purchased 60 acres of parking lot between the Forum and Hollywood Park. It is a small spot for a stadium, but a legitimate and already NFL-endorsed spot for a stadium, with surrounding areas available for further purchase.
While most reports involving the NFL’s potential return to Los Angeles over the last 19 years have been a bunch of hooey, there is one obvious reason that this one actually feels real. After nearly two decades of reading about Los Angeles rich guys courting NFL rich guys, this is the first time that a current NFL owner has actually made a real investment in courting us.
This is not Phil Anschutz or Ed Roski wrapping a stadium proposal in roses and delivering it to an owner’s door. This is not some politician flying to New York to decorate the league office with Hollywood brochures and surf reports.
The motto on luring a team to Los Angeles has always been taken straight from the movies: “If you build it, they will come.” Well, guess what? This is a guy who is coming before it is built, and acting like he could build it himself.
My speculation is that Kroenke may have a preference but doesn't know how things will turn out... he may want to stay in Saint Louis but isn't sure if a deal to his liking can get worked out so the LA land purchase is a hedge. Or he may prefer LA but isn't entirely confidant the complexity can be worked out.
What would be an awesome NFL legacy for him is if he elevates Saint Louis Rams performance on his own dime and eventually sells off the LA land to others who get an expansion team.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football ... cef4c.html
Basically he says this land deal substantially moves the line of scrimmage closer to LA than anything done previously.... we now have a billionaire NFL owner purchasing a plot of land suitable for an NFL stadium. Significant hurdles remain (and it appears flight path is an issue) but that this is the first development that "feels real".
Excerpt:
It was revealed on Friday that Stan Kroenke, owner of the St. Louis Rams, has quietly purchased 60 acres of parking lot between the Forum and Hollywood Park. It is a small spot for a stadium, but a legitimate and already NFL-endorsed spot for a stadium, with surrounding areas available for further purchase.
While most reports involving the NFL’s potential return to Los Angeles over the last 19 years have been a bunch of hooey, there is one obvious reason that this one actually feels real. After nearly two decades of reading about Los Angeles rich guys courting NFL rich guys, this is the first time that a current NFL owner has actually made a real investment in courting us.
This is not Phil Anschutz or Ed Roski wrapping a stadium proposal in roses and delivering it to an owner’s door. This is not some politician flying to New York to decorate the league office with Hollywood brochures and surf reports.
The motto on luring a team to Los Angeles has always been taken straight from the movies: “If you build it, they will come.” Well, guess what? This is a guy who is coming before it is built, and acting like he could build it himself.
My speculation is that Kroenke may have a preference but doesn't know how things will turn out... he may want to stay in Saint Louis but isn't sure if a deal to his liking can get worked out so the LA land purchase is a hedge. Or he may prefer LA but isn't entirely confidant the complexity can be worked out.
What would be an awesome NFL legacy for him is if he elevates Saint Louis Rams performance on his own dime and eventually sells off the LA land to others who get an expansion team.
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I don't really trust any franchise owner, but we'll see what happens. I would like the Rams to stay at least in the metro area, but there's nothing I can do either way.
Looks like people are not happy about transit problems with yesterday's Super Bowl.
http://deadspin.com/why-the-super-bowl- ... 1514932712
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/sup ... -1.1600009
It's bad when fans of the winning team are ticked off.
http://deadspin.com/why-the-super-bowl- ... 1514932712
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/sup ... -1.1600009
It's bad when fans of the winning team are ticked off.
Around midnight, more than two hours after the game’s final snap, state troopers announced there were 50 buses ready to ferry fans directly to the Port Authority Bus Terminal in Manhattan. Still, hundreds of fans remained stuck past 1 a.m. “This is the worst place to host a Super Bowl ever,” said Ryan Beall, 30, of Seattle. “Fifty cities could have handled this better. Logistically, this is terrible. New Jersey should be embarrassed.”
Kroenke probably went to the Super Bowl yesterday, saw the digs of the Giants/Jets, and was drooling at the concept of having not only the Rams in LA but having a second team paying him rent.
Is there any possibility of a double switch? Kroenke goes to LA and Khan brings the Jaguars to STL?
Is there any possibility of a double switch? Kroenke goes to LA and Khan brings the Jaguars to STL?
It seems far-fetched to me. Khan has a pretty solid lease in Jacksonville and has plans to put his own money as well as some public money into the stadium down there.realclear wrote:Is there any possibility of a double switch? Kroenke goes to LA and Khan brings the Jaguars to STL?
Things would have to really go bad on Jacksonville (and I don't mean just on the field, where they're already bad) for the Jags to actually be a relocation candidate. A lack of fans at the games of a bad team simply isn't a legitimate reason to move a franchise (which is why it's BS that St. Louis gets ripped on for this).
And once they got to that point, St. Louis would have to have a good stadium option for Khan to move to. Why wouldn't we just build it now and keep the Rams instead of being backed into the same situation that caused the bad deal we currently have?
Khan would have loved to own the Rams in St. Louis. And I'm confident he would have been extremely flexible with the stadium situation here. But that ship sailed, and I don't think he's any sort of realistic plan b for St. Louis any more.
It could happen, but it's not something I'd be comfortable counting on.
Although, my plan b has gotten pretty simple. I hate the NFL as a league, and I feel morally wrong every moment I spend watching players contribute to their premature deaths while playing the sport of football. I love the Rams. And as long as we have them, I think I'm in a weird moral grey area where I can't let go. And I sure as heck want them to stay and believe we should publicly support it. But if they don't, good bye and good riddance to the NFL.
^This is why sometimes I wish the GridBirds would have never left. 1987: "Why wouldn't we just build it now and keep the <Cardinals> instead of being backed in the same situation that caused the bad deal we currently have?
Dweebe: Regarding the Mike Shannon comment, his nickname is the "Moon Man" hence a good fit as the voice of Hekkar and company's new landing spot....
http://zettwoch.blogspot.com/2008/07/ne ... annon.html
I liked Randy K's call out to the powers that be today that STL has already let too many teams and corporations walk. He referenced that there's "only one guy" working right now to ensure they stay and he needs some help (wouldn't say his name on the air). Any guesses as to he means?
Dweebe: Regarding the Mike Shannon comment, his nickname is the "Moon Man" hence a good fit as the voice of Hekkar and company's new landing spot....
http://zettwoch.blogspot.com/2008/07/ne ... annon.html
I liked Randy K's call out to the powers that be today that STL has already let too many teams and corporations walk. He referenced that there's "only one guy" working right now to ensure they stay and he needs some help (wouldn't say his name on the air). Any guesses as to he means?
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OK, if this is true, the Rams are moving, no doubt!
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/ ... ls-4005992
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/ ... ls-4005992
Maybe he will move them to STL and we will have 2 LA teams.DogtownBnR wrote:OK, if this is true, the Rams are moving, no doubt!
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/ ... ls-4005992
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Would definitely be damning if found to be true. Its hard to believe the MLS would allow 3 LA Teams, more likely he would buy Chivas and change the name to LA Gunners. Also does he still own the Colorado Rapids, they would have to resolve that situation as well.OK, if this is true, the Rams are moving, no doubt!
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/ ... ls-4005992
A quick web search didn't show anything to corroborate the claim so I'll wait and see. It strange, things have been quiet so long that things are heating up this quickly and all at once.
If I could be assured of both, that would be my preference. The Jags are in a better division for St. Louis anyway, with rivals in Indy, and Nashville. The stadium lease in Jacksonville is a big obstacle, and we'd still be looking to build a new stadium, as they would not move without it. If it did happen I'd guess we would be looking at least 5-10 years without a team in the interim.Is there any possibility of a double switch? Kroenke goes to LA and Khan brings the Jaguars to STL?
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Why can't he just own an MLS franchise in LA? No one think's hes going to move Arsenal to LA. If he sees a market for another team in LA, and he made a good purchase of a piece of land (that many have said is too small for an NFL stadium anyway), why not?DogtownBnR wrote:OK, if this is true, the Rams are moving, no doubt!
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/ ... ls-4005992
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^Where would he put that team? Most likely, a multi-use facility in Inglewood. Rams/MLS. That is why I think, if this is true, it does not bode well for the Rams in STL. He is not moving Arsenal to LA. (Not sure what you meant by that comment) He would be creating a new team, like Manchester City is doing in NYC. The Gunners of the MLS, would be the 2nd team in LA and I'd assume Chivas will move, be purchased/renamed by Stan or fold all together. They are not very successful in LA. Keep in mind, MLS allows multiple teams to be owned by one owner, which I find to be odd.
Also, who ever said that 60 acres is too small for an NFL team, when SF just built on 40 and so did Indy with Lucas Oil. 60 acres is plenty big. The fact that 60 acres is too small, is a myth. I think he could acquire more land from the developers next door, developing the old race track site. Also, I'm sure a deal could be worked out with the Forum, to schedule around NFL games, so Stan can use the lot as overflow for football games. Some think that lot is too small, but I think he could make it work. It may not be ideal, but good land does not come cheap in LA. Land in LA that could accomadate NFL football, is hard to find. That is probably why Stan jumped at the opportunity to buy that land. It may be a bargaining chip for him, but I think it could be more. He has a house in LA, tried to buy the Dodgers, may be looking to bring soccer to LA, owner the former LA Rams, has connections in LA with AEG folks, as well as other billionaire buddies. Now he owns a 60 acre plot of land there. Too many coincidences for me to believe, where there is smoke, there is not a fire.
Also, who ever said that 60 acres is too small for an NFL team, when SF just built on 40 and so did Indy with Lucas Oil. 60 acres is plenty big. The fact that 60 acres is too small, is a myth. I think he could acquire more land from the developers next door, developing the old race track site. Also, I'm sure a deal could be worked out with the Forum, to schedule around NFL games, so Stan can use the lot as overflow for football games. Some think that lot is too small, but I think he could make it work. It may not be ideal, but good land does not come cheap in LA. Land in LA that could accomadate NFL football, is hard to find. That is probably why Stan jumped at the opportunity to buy that land. It may be a bargaining chip for him, but I think it could be more. He has a house in LA, tried to buy the Dodgers, may be looking to bring soccer to LA, owner the former LA Rams, has connections in LA with AEG folks, as well as other billionaire buddies. Now he owns a 60 acre plot of land there. Too many coincidences for me to believe, where there is smoke, there is not a fire.
Regarding Jacksonville, I think the Jags are tied to the city until 2029, unless they can show 5 straight years of losing money, which is hard to do in the NFL. Then, if they jump that hurdle, they face the NFL relocation hurdles. Then, if we've lost the Rams, we have to try and justify to the NFL, that we are in fact, a viable market, even though we lost 2 team over the last 30 years. That is a difficult sell. I know we are a good market. We've just been jaded by decades of bad football, terrible drafts, terrible ownership and instability. I think bad ownership, is to blame for the Blues going almost 50 years without a Cup. Instability, poor management, bad owners and poor results, not only set back a franchise, but kill a fanbase. That is St. Louis football, in a nutshell, minus the Greatest Show on Turf and Air Coryell days.
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My main point was that he's got teams in many different metro areas, so it shouldn't come as much surprise that he'd like to add another one. Also, I believe with the exception of the Sounders, the MLS does not like to build joint-custody stadiums. They prefer soccer specific ones.DogtownBnR wrote:^Where would he put that team? Most likely, a multi-use facility in Inglewood. Rams/MLS. That is why I think, if this is true, it does not bode well for the Rams in STL. He is not moving Arsenal to LA. (Not sure what you meant by that comment) He would be creating a new team, like Manchester City is doing in NYC. The Gunners of the MLS, would be the 2nd team in LA and I'd assume Chivas will move or fold. They are not very successful in LA. Keep in mind, MLS allows multiple teams to be owned by one owner, which I find to be odd.
Also, who ever said that 60 acres is too small for an NFL team, when SF just built on 40 and so did Indy with Lucas Oil. 60 acres is plenty big. The fact that 60 acres is too small, is a myth. I think he could acquire more land from the developers next door, developing the old race track site. Also, I'm sure a deal could be worked out with the Forum, to schedule around NFL games, so Stan can use the lot as overflow for football games.