I'm pretty sure that's still what they want. Probably more now than ever as any new stadium deal will probably be set up with Kroenke owning the stadium. So Super Bowls, Final Fours, anything else means money in Stan's pocket.
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I can imagine this stadium being built on Bloody Island, Illinois, with the field running Northeast to Southwest. Then the Southwest view would be about like this but with the Gateway Arch and St. Louis Downtown in the gap.dweebe wrote:Seattle's CenturyLink Field's roof does not move/is not retractable as it covers like 3/4 of the seats. I've stated elsewhere in this thread I love that design and would like to see it here.DogtownBnR wrote:I would prefer to have a stadium with a retractable roof, like Seattle, Indy or Arizona.
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Build a retractable stadium south of downtown, just east of Soulard. Bulldoze anything non-essential. Pay the trucking companies to leave for the empty north riverfront. Then build the beginnings of a North-South Metrolink to Soulard and the new stadium so everyone can be encouraged to continue to use existing downtown parking on gameday.
This is the sort of thinking behind which I can get.leeharveyawesome wrote:Build a retractable stadium south of downtown, just east of Soulard. Bulldoze anything non-essential. Pay the trucking companies to leave for the empty north riverfront. Then build the beginnings of a North-South Metrolink to Soulard and the new stadium so everyone can be encouraged to continue to use existing downtown parking on gameday.
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^^Best idea out there! Been saying it for some time. Also be a great place to put an MLS venue. Great to go to a soccer game and walk up to the pubs for a pint or 6. That type of development would give Broadway businesses a huge boost. You'd see restaurants and bars popping up all over. That would be so cool, but moving all of those companies would be VERY difficult. That is why the north riverfront site might be more realistic. I do have concerns that Stan has been so silent, but that is his style. I just wish i knew what was going on in his head. That might be third to knowing the meaning of life and what happens after death. . . 
^^Me about 7 months ago/20 pages back in this thread.
dweebe wrote:That's what I keep pimping here over and over. Build the stadium roughly in the superblock with these boundaries:DogtownBnR wrote:If for some reason, the land was available, would anyone have a huge issue with the south riverfront being the location for NFL & MLS? Even if that would mean demo of Chouteau's Landing and possibly the street grid, all the way to Lyon Park. Would the benefit be worth the cost?
-7th Street to the west
-Russell Ave to the south
-Kocuisko St to the east
-Lafayette St to the north
Then clear everything else east of 7th Street for acres of parking/tailgating plus whatever Stan wants to build.
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Yesterday my wife and I attended the free lunch at Rams Park for season ticket holders who filled out the survey sent out and then responded to the lunch invite quickly before the seats ran out. Kevin Demoff talked a little and then took questions for two hours -- as long as anyone wanted to stay. Kevin and his staff at the Rams do such a great job of connecting with the community and season ticket holders.
I asked him this question: Can you tell us now that the Rams will be in St. Louis in 2015? He responded that he is 99.86% sure that they will be. So I followed up asking when he would be 100% sure, say, as they were mailing out bills for next years season tickets? He said they would know for sure in the spring of next year, since they would need to let the EJ Dome know around then.
He was kind of joking about the 99.86% but I think he was sincere. I get the impression that he isn't 100% sure what Stan might do at any time so he was covering the Stan uncertainty. Stan has his own staff. Kevin spoke quite a bit about the stadium and move anxiety. Some people asked why they should keep buying season tickets if we don't know if the Rams will stay from year to year. He said he understood the emotional investment people are making when they buy season tickets. He said he feels like he has to make a good enough overall product to sell tickets year by year, and a year-by-year lease is not that unusual in the NFL, citing San Diego and in the past Minneapolis and Buffalo. He said the Rams and fans agree that it would be better to start over on a new stadium rather than upgrade the EJ Dome. He went through the whole 5 year saga that played out in Minnesota including the team working out a deal for a stadium in the suburbs before the city finally got serious and came up with a plan for a new stadium. But even that plan fell through multiple times. Finally the Vikings management made a not-too-clandestine trip to LA. Then the commissioner got involved and finally a plan was passed by the legislature. He isn't hoping for that scenario but said he wouldn't be surprised if St. Louis has to go through a similar sequence of starts and stops and threats to leave, etc. before we end up building a new stadium. He thinks a retractable roof is too expensive and he prefers open air. (said his wife doesn't understand why) He pointed to Indy as a region that build a fantastic new stadium even though its previous one was only about as old as the dome. And they built a new Airport and a new convention center. That is the kind of regional resolve he would like to see in St. Louis. (Then he joked that unlike Indy, St. Louis has a REAL river, and a lot more.) He also mentioned he thought 60,000 would be about the right size for a new stadium.
Personally, I was hoping he would just say YES, the Rams will be here in 2015. Since he didn't quite say that, and he made it sound like we should limit our enjoyment to what is happening in he current season. But often sports enjoyment comes not just from the current game or season, but with watching the development and improvement of teams and individuals over several seasons. He emphasized the fun of high fiving other fans in the stands and poking Chicago fans during the game, and having memories of great plays -- like the Ricky Proehl catch in 1999. Things you can't get from your sofa. All emphasizing enjoyment now, not over multiple seasons. So this leads me to believe they are positioning themselves to make no multi-year commitments here -- concession contracts, dome improvements, etc.
Other Notes:
• In 2014 there will be a new sound system in the dome and all new concession vender.
• There are plans to upgrade WiFi and Cell phone service. The NFL is pushing this around the league for 2014 or 2015.
• No news whatsoever on new stadium talks. These things go in fits and starts like Minnesota.
• Kevin polled the audience -- 50% want a lid, 50% want open air. Also 50% want it in the city, 50% in the county. (Kevin prefers open air.) He said the word "Fenton" in one of his for instances, by the way.
• Others need to come to the table on the new stadium issue for a regional solution where stadium can be used for a lot more than NFL and monster trucks. Instead do like Indy where they can host a lot more events.
• There will be dynamic pricing for single seats. Higher for Dallas and Denver for instance. (We host Denver and Seattle next year, SB winner.)
• Blue White Uniforms? It will be a few more years 2016 or 17 at the earliest. Takes the NFL 2 years to change. They are considering some kind of uniform change however someday.
I asked him this question: Can you tell us now that the Rams will be in St. Louis in 2015? He responded that he is 99.86% sure that they will be. So I followed up asking when he would be 100% sure, say, as they were mailing out bills for next years season tickets? He said they would know for sure in the spring of next year, since they would need to let the EJ Dome know around then.
He was kind of joking about the 99.86% but I think he was sincere. I get the impression that he isn't 100% sure what Stan might do at any time so he was covering the Stan uncertainty. Stan has his own staff. Kevin spoke quite a bit about the stadium and move anxiety. Some people asked why they should keep buying season tickets if we don't know if the Rams will stay from year to year. He said he understood the emotional investment people are making when they buy season tickets. He said he feels like he has to make a good enough overall product to sell tickets year by year, and a year-by-year lease is not that unusual in the NFL, citing San Diego and in the past Minneapolis and Buffalo. He said the Rams and fans agree that it would be better to start over on a new stadium rather than upgrade the EJ Dome. He went through the whole 5 year saga that played out in Minnesota including the team working out a deal for a stadium in the suburbs before the city finally got serious and came up with a plan for a new stadium. But even that plan fell through multiple times. Finally the Vikings management made a not-too-clandestine trip to LA. Then the commissioner got involved and finally a plan was passed by the legislature. He isn't hoping for that scenario but said he wouldn't be surprised if St. Louis has to go through a similar sequence of starts and stops and threats to leave, etc. before we end up building a new stadium. He thinks a retractable roof is too expensive and he prefers open air. (said his wife doesn't understand why) He pointed to Indy as a region that build a fantastic new stadium even though its previous one was only about as old as the dome. And they built a new Airport and a new convention center. That is the kind of regional resolve he would like to see in St. Louis. (Then he joked that unlike Indy, St. Louis has a REAL river, and a lot more.) He also mentioned he thought 60,000 would be about the right size for a new stadium.
Personally, I was hoping he would just say YES, the Rams will be here in 2015. Since he didn't quite say that, and he made it sound like we should limit our enjoyment to what is happening in he current season. But often sports enjoyment comes not just from the current game or season, but with watching the development and improvement of teams and individuals over several seasons. He emphasized the fun of high fiving other fans in the stands and poking Chicago fans during the game, and having memories of great plays -- like the Ricky Proehl catch in 1999. Things you can't get from your sofa. All emphasizing enjoyment now, not over multiple seasons. So this leads me to believe they are positioning themselves to make no multi-year commitments here -- concession contracts, dome improvements, etc.
Other Notes:
• In 2014 there will be a new sound system in the dome and all new concession vender.
• There are plans to upgrade WiFi and Cell phone service. The NFL is pushing this around the league for 2014 or 2015.
• No news whatsoever on new stadium talks. These things go in fits and starts like Minnesota.
• Kevin polled the audience -- 50% want a lid, 50% want open air. Also 50% want it in the city, 50% in the county. (Kevin prefers open air.) He said the word "Fenton" in one of his for instances, by the way.
• Others need to come to the table on the new stadium issue for a regional solution where stadium can be used for a lot more than NFL and monster trucks. Instead do like Indy where they can host a lot more events.
• There will be dynamic pricing for single seats. Higher for Dallas and Denver for instance. (We host Denver and Seattle next year, SB winner.)
• Blue White Uniforms? It will be a few more years 2016 or 17 at the earliest. Takes the NFL 2 years to change. They are considering some kind of uniform change however someday.
Tavon Auston seems to be supporting a group pushing for the return of the Rams to LA:
http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/colu ... 1a2ec.html
http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/colu ... 1a2ec.html
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No, he isn't. Kevin Demoff was asked about this and I agree with what Kevin said. Tavon just saw some Rams fans and, as the Rams encourage them to do, he agreed to a photo. As Kevin said, the rookies are not really paying attention to move rumors and the politics behind it. If he had seen Rams fans and refused a photo,that would have been see as arrogant. The LA group took a cheap shot by asking of a photo and then unfurling the banner. Tavon probably didn't even see the banner. They duped him and should apologize. I am sure he is not a friend of those people now.framer wrote:Tavon Auston seems to be supporting a group pushing for the return of the Rams to LA:
http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/colu ... 1a2ec.html
Kevin ranted some that Tavon has done a lot of charity work around St Louis, and a charity game with vets at Scott AFB, etc., and no Post Dispatch people bothered to cover those. But a fan takes a photo in LA, and the Post makes it a story here just to rile locals and make it look like Tavon supports a move.
@gary krie, thank you very much for the report & your insight. I very much wanted to attended that luncheon, but could not due to scheduling conflicts.
Yes, thanks, Gary for a nice summary. Overall, did you leave there feeling more or less comfortable or having followed the situation as closely as you have, is it what you expected? Also, maybe I read too quickly but I'm not sure I understand his preference for open air/retractable roof is too expensive yet they use Indy as an example and would like it to be a highly versatile venue.....
I totally agree that Tavon should not be faulted for his gesture. However, telling us that the rookies have no idea about the move and stadium issues is a bit much. If these guys are half as plugged into the social media scene as it seems, we all know it doesn't take much to see that the Rams issue is a hot one here and around the country. Kevin should realize that we are scared $hitless about this and the media's reaction should be no surprise.
Let's say the rookies seriously have no idea about what's happening with the stadium situation. Then I'd question Kevin as to why players are left in the dark on such an issue. While it should play no role in their game prep or efforts, it directly affects community relationships and media perception. I would think that they would all be coached on how to address the media about such things if for no other reason than to cover their a$$ as an organization, lest a player gets cornered with questions about the Rams future. For example:
Obviously all these rumors, opinions, and conjecture come with a grain of salt, but to believe these players are left in the dark during draft interviews and media coaching, or don't read anything in the paper or elsewhere is ridiculous. Kevin D and company have proven their too sharp to let things like that fall through the cracks.
I totally agree that Tavon should not be faulted for his gesture. However, telling us that the rookies have no idea about the move and stadium issues is a bit much. If these guys are half as plugged into the social media scene as it seems, we all know it doesn't take much to see that the Rams issue is a hot one here and around the country. Kevin should realize that we are scared $hitless about this and the media's reaction should be no surprise.
Let's say the rookies seriously have no idea about what's happening with the stadium situation. Then I'd question Kevin as to why players are left in the dark on such an issue. While it should play no role in their game prep or efforts, it directly affects community relationships and media perception. I would think that they would all be coached on how to address the media about such things if for no other reason than to cover their a$$ as an organization, lest a player gets cornered with questions about the Rams future. For example:
Obviously all these rumors, opinions, and conjecture come with a grain of salt, but to believe these players are left in the dark during draft interviews and media coaching, or don't read anything in the paper or elsewhere is ridiculous. Kevin D and company have proven their too sharp to let things like that fall through the cracks.
I think they only mean Indy to the extent that it can do multiple things, not to the extent that it has a retractable roof. It's part of "playing the game" throughout this upcoming chicken dance between the Rams and the Missouri entities for public funding. They "want what's best for St. Louis," which they would interpret as a "venue that can do more than just host a football team for ten days out of the year." (I'm paraphrasing, but only slightly: this is pretty much exactly what Demoff says every time he's interviewed). The easiest way to sell the idea to the public and drum up political support is to make it look like the St. Louis region stands to benefit from more than just the Rams playing there.blzhrpmd2 wrote:Yes, thanks, Gary for a nice summary. Overall, did you leave there feeling more or less comfortable or having followed the situation as closely as you have, is it what you expected? Also, maybe I read too quickly but I'm not sure I understand his preference for open air/retractable roof is too expensive yet they use Indy as an example and would like it to be a highly versatile venue.....
From everything journalists like Jim Thomas and Bernie Miklasz have reported about an open-air stadium being the preferred option, my guess is still that they want something more like what's in Seattle, with an MLS tenant sharing during the warm-weather months... along with a college bowl game, country music concerts like they have in Kansas City at Arrowhead, other high-profile soccer matches, etc.
In fact, I wouldn't be at-all surprised if the Rams have had a hand in the sudden random non-Cardinals events at Busch Stadium over the past year (Chelsea/Man. City and SIUC/SEMO)... I think they want to show to the region and the local leadership what could be with a new state-of-the-art open-air venue.
I'd question why they would want to lose consideration for NCAA events. Retractable would be my vote for both versatility during the NFL season as well as maximizing its use year round. I'd be interested to know how Kevin defines "too expensive" given Stan's resources.
Open stadium and MLS tenant please!!!!blzhrpmd2 wrote:I'd question why they would want to lose consideration for NCAA events. Retractable would be my vote for both versatility during the NFL season as well as maximizing its use year round. I'd be interested to know how Kevin defines "too expensive" given Stan's resources.
Lose a couple NCAA games to gain 15+ soccer games plus friendlies and other event. Sounds like an improvement to me. Let the dome handle those.
Plus we can get rid of the wine and cheese fans that yell at you for standing up and cheering on third downs.
For sure, still in favor of MLS, but retractable roof doesn't remove that possibility. "A couple" NCAA games could mean hundreds of thousands descending on STL if the right regional or final brackets were hosted for basketball every few years. Steady MLS growth and attendance would be optimal and I hope it is integrated into the project if a MLS specific venue is not viable. While we have shown we are a good market, though, what are MLS expectations on filling a 60,000 stadium consistently? Would it turn into the Billikens at Kiel/Saavis/Scottrade after awhile?
I don't think we can afford to get rid of any fans in the dome right now, despite frustrating tendencies.
I don't think we can afford to get rid of any fans in the dome right now, despite frustrating tendencies.
One time I got darn good seats close to the field on the Rams side. The guy in front of me was eating his bagel and cream cheese while reading the newspaper for most of the first quarter. People like this need to be ejected along with the drunks.dmelsh wrote:Plus we can get rid of the wine and cheese fans that yell at you for standing up and cheering on third downs.
Interesting opinion. What it disruptive to your experience?
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The facebook page with Steve Smith is a year old, and Steve wasn't very good as a Ram in 2012. As many predicted, he was not invited back to be a member of the Rams in 2013. So whatever he said in January 2013, he was saying as a guy on the street, even if he didn't realize it at the time.blzhrpmd2 wrote:Yes, thanks, Gary for a nice summary. Overall, did you leave there feeling more or less comfortable or having followed the situation as closely as you have, is it what you expected? Also, maybe I read too quickly but I'm not sure I understand his preference for open air/retractable roof is too expensive yet they use Indy as an example and would like it to be a highly versatile venue.....
I totally agree that Tavon should not be faulted for his gesture. However, telling us that the rookies have no idea about the move and stadium issues is a bit much. If these guys are half as plugged into the social media scene as it seems, we all know it doesn't take much to see that the Rams issue is a hot one here and around the country. Kevin should realize that we are scared $hitless about this and the media's reaction should be no surprise.
Let's say the rookies seriously have no idea about what's happening with the stadium situation. Then I'd question Kevin as to why players are left in the dark on such an issue. While it should play no role in their game prep or efforts, it directly affects community relationships and media perception. I would think that they would all be coached on how to address the media about such things if for no other reason than to cover their a$$ as an organization, lest a player gets cornered with questions about the Rams future. For example:
Obviously all these rumors, opinions, and conjecture come with a grain of salt, but to believe these players are left in the dark during draft interviews and media coaching, or don't read anything in the paper or elsewhere is ridiculous. Kevin D and company have proven their too sharp to let things like that fall through the cracks.
No drunks at football? Good luck with that.One time I got darn good seats close to the field on the Rams side. The guy in front of me was eating his bagel and cream cheese while reading the newspaper for most of the first quarter. People like this need to be ejected along with the drunks.
All I'm saying is, I doubt the players are totally clueless about the matter. If he had an opinion as a guy on the street then he had an opinion while he was a player, documented or not.
I appreciate Demoff's effort but it is time for some candor on the part of Stan - the football Cardinal demise was about 3 years from "hey we want a new stadium in the county" to last game in Dec 87 - This seems like it is going on longer and Bidwell, though an ass, was 100% up front with the metrogary kreie wrote:Yesterday my wife and I attended the free lunch at Rams Park for season ticket holders who filled out the survey sent out and then responded to the lunch invite quickly before the seats ran out. Kevin Demoff talked a little and then took questions for two hours -- as long as anyone wanted to stay. Kevin and his staff at the Rams do such a great job of connecting with the community and season ticket holders.
I asked him this question: Can you tell us now that the Rams will be in St. Louis in 2015? He responded that he is 99.86% sure that they will be. So I followed up asking when he would be 100% sure, say, as they were mailing out bills for next years season tickets? He said they would know for sure in the spring of next year, since they would need to let the EJ Dome know around then.
He was kind of joking about the 99.86% but I think he was sincere. I get the impression that he isn't 100% sure what Stan might do at any time so he was covering the Stan uncertainty. Stan has his own staff. Kevin spoke quite a bit about the stadium and move anxiety. Some people asked why they should keep buying season tickets if we don't know if the Rams will stay from year to year. He said he understood the emotional investment people are making when they buy season tickets. He said he feels like he has to make a good enough overall product to sell tickets year by year, and a year-by-year lease is not that unusual in the NFL, citing San Diego and in the past Minneapolis and Buffalo. He said the Rams and fans agree that it would be better to start over on a new stadium rather than upgrade the EJ Dome. He went through the whole 5 year saga that played out in Minnesota including the team working out a deal for a stadium in the suburbs before the city finally got serious and came up with a plan for a new stadium. But even that plan fell through multiple times. Finally the Vikings management made a not-too-clandestine trip to LA. Then the commissioner got involved and finally a plan was passed by the legislature. He isn't hoping for that scenario but said he wouldn't be surprised if St. Louis has to go through a similar sequence of starts and stops and threats to leave, etc. before we end up building a new stadium. He thinks a retractable roof is too expensive and he prefers open air. (said his wife doesn't understand why) He pointed to Indy as a region that build a fantastic new stadium even though its previous one was only about as old as the dome. And they built a new Airport and a new convention center. That is the kind of regional resolve he would like to see in St. Louis. (Then he joked that unlike Indy, St. Louis has a REAL river, and a lot more.) He also mentioned he thought 60,000 would be about the right size for a new stadium.
Personally, I was hoping he would just say YES, the Rams will be here in 2015. Since he didn't quite say that, and he made it sound like we should limit our enjoyment to what is happening in he current season. But often sports enjoyment comes not just from the current game or season, but with watching the development and improvement of teams and individuals over several seasons. He emphasized the fun of high fiving other fans in the stands and poking Chicago fans during the game, and having memories of great plays -- like the Ricky Proehl catch in 1999. Things you can't get from your sofa. All emphasizing enjoyment now, not over multiple seasons. So this leads me to believe they are positioning themselves to make no multi-year commitments here -- concession contracts, dome improvements, etc.
Other Notes:
• In 2014 there will be a new sound system in the dome and all new concession vender.
• There are plans to upgrade WiFi and Cell phone service. The NFL is pushing this around the league for 2014 or 2015.
• No news whatsoever on new stadium talks. These things go in fits and starts like Minnesota.
• Kevin polled the audience -- 50% want a lid, 50% want open air. Also 50% want it in the city, 50% in the county. (Kevin prefers open air.) He said the word "Fenton" in one of his for instances, by the way.
• Others need to come to the table on the new stadium issue for a regional solution where stadium can be used for a lot more than NFL and monster trucks. Instead do like Indy where they can host a lot more events.
• There will be dynamic pricing for single seats. Higher for Dallas and Denver for instance. (We host Denver and Seattle next year, SB winner.)
• Blue White Uniforms? It will be a few more years 2016 or 17 at the earliest. Takes the NFL 2 years to change. They are considering some kind of uniform change however someday.
If Stan wants MLS as a co-tenant his window is closing -
He is alienating his fan base who does not want to commit to a team that will not be here in 2 years
The hour is getting late - Say something - even if it is not what we want to hear
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Greatest idea ever: Locate the new Rams stadium on the FORMER site of the Darste-Webbe-Peabody-LaSalle housing projects! Relocate those residents to newer, better housing somewhere else. They are deserving of something with a better aesthetic!
GREATEST IDEA EVER.
GREATEST IDEA EVER.
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^I think Demoff should be considered the mouthpiece of Stan. Thats what he is paid to do. I take him at his word that the Rams prefer to stay in STL. They prefer to stay in the city, but would consider moving to the county if the deal was right.
They won't commit themselves to any more than they have to simply because it makes no sense from a business perspective. They will play their hand when they have the most leverage.
Think about Sam Bradford, the Rams offered him a contract extension (to relieve some of the salary cap pressure that his base pay has put them under). He turned them down because he wanted to "prove himself" because he hadn't done that yet (3 lackluster seasons...). Translation 'I want to make sure I'm at the highest price possible before I sign any extension deal'. It's not a charity case it's business.
The Rams are seeking leverage and when they get it, whether its a viable potential LA move, or a stronger City v. County divide, or simply the CVC getting out from under the EJ Dome bond debt thus freeing up more capital. They will wait for their best opportunity to extract the most concessions they possibly can. Only thing that is pushing them to move is I'd be willing to bet Stan K. wants to host a Superbowl in his lifetime. And those slots are filled years in advance and most think a new stadium is a requirement to bring one here.
They won't commit themselves to any more than they have to simply because it makes no sense from a business perspective. They will play their hand when they have the most leverage.
Think about Sam Bradford, the Rams offered him a contract extension (to relieve some of the salary cap pressure that his base pay has put them under). He turned them down because he wanted to "prove himself" because he hadn't done that yet (3 lackluster seasons...). Translation 'I want to make sure I'm at the highest price possible before I sign any extension deal'. It's not a charity case it's business.
The Rams are seeking leverage and when they get it, whether its a viable potential LA move, or a stronger City v. County divide, or simply the CVC getting out from under the EJ Dome bond debt thus freeing up more capital. They will wait for their best opportunity to extract the most concessions they possibly can. Only thing that is pushing them to move is I'd be willing to bet Stan K. wants to host a Superbowl in his lifetime. And those slots are filled years in advance and most think a new stadium is a requirement to bring one here.
Yeah. Though others have disagreed with me in this thread, I simply don't see any reason why the Rams would start making demands, or why Stan would say anything. They're next-to-last in attendance, sure, but that's not all (or probably even mostly) because of the uncertainty of their long-term intentions.
The CVC and the Rams have only just finished the dance that was required by the lease signed, but the clock doesn't even really begin until a proposal to work towards is on the table.
The CVC and the Rams have only just finished the dance that was required by the lease signed, but the clock doesn't even really begin until a proposal to work towards is on the table.