Sounds like Walton out and Gregg Williams waiting in the wings.......
Which is awfully bizarre given we let him quietly go after he was technically employed by the Rams but suspended during 2012 for his role in the bounty scandal. They also unceremoniously fired his son Blake after that season as well (I wonder if he'll be back).
Bizarre or not, as long as Williams is done with the bounties (and I have no reason to believe he isn't), then I'm good with this. I didn't much care for Walton's cushions on receivers and whatnot. Williams will be much more aggressive. And the Rams have the personnel to do it.
Bizarre or not, as long as Williams is done with the bounties (and I have no reason to believe he isn't), then I'm good with this. I didn't much care for Walton's cushions on receivers and whatnot. Williams will be much more aggressive. And the Rams have the personnel to do it.
News is currently breaking that Stan Kroenke has purchased a 60-acre plot of land in Los Angeles.
My guess is it's a reach for some leverage. Still, though... here goes
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/kroe ... 878d6.html
My guess is it's a reach for some leverage. Still, though... here goes
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/kroe ... 878d6.html
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To quote Martin Lawrence in Bad Boys 2 (and Simon Pegg in Hot Fuzz), "Sh*t just got real".
STLtoday: Kroenke Buys Stadium-Sized Plot of Land in Los Angeles
(well, a subsidiary of his real estate development company did)
Source: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/kroe ... 878d6.html
The speculation on what's gonna happen to the Rams just got covered in gasoline. For all we know, he's just gonna build another Wal-Mart SuperCenter in Inglewood, as per the original plans. His whole business career has literally been building Wal-Marts across the country. And he has the money to be able to buy such a plot just to pressure negotiations.
No matter. Pressure's higher now to get a deal done. Plus, hey, it's Super Bowl Week, and all the owners will be talking.
Head fake? Or are they really thinking of moving to a Wal-Mart parking lot?
Better question: Anyone on this forum know this land and how real a fit this could be for a stadium, Rams or not?
Keep hope alive...
STLtoday: Kroenke Buys Stadium-Sized Plot of Land in Los Angeles
(well, a subsidiary of his real estate development company did)
Source: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/kroe ... 878d6.html
The speculation on what's gonna happen to the Rams just got covered in gasoline. For all we know, he's just gonna build another Wal-Mart SuperCenter in Inglewood, as per the original plans. His whole business career has literally been building Wal-Marts across the country. And he has the money to be able to buy such a plot just to pressure negotiations.
No matter. Pressure's higher now to get a deal done. Plus, hey, it's Super Bowl Week, and all the owners will be talking.
Head fake? Or are they really thinking of moving to a Wal-Mart parking lot?
Better question: Anyone on this forum know this land and how real a fit this could be for a stadium, Rams or not?
Keep hope alive...
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This is very bad news IMO. He can break the lease in 2015. Perfect timing. I think this could be the beginning of the end, of the ST. LOUIS RAMS. He Is an international sports mogul. He does not care about St. Louis. I think this increases the odds significantly, that he moves the franchise. Just my take, as of today. I'm keeping hope alive, but that hope just dwindled significantly.
The only positive spin I can put on this, is the fact that 60 acres is a very small plot for an NFL stadium, if including parking. From what I've read, not verified, the Edward Jones Dome is on 100 acres. To go less than that would not be enough. Anybody have information on how many acres the stadium like arrowhead, Lucas oil or others are built on??
Supposedly Lucas Oil and the 49ers new park are on just 40 acres. Still, though, an LA stadium will require a massive amount of parking in addition to the stadium footprint.
I think more than likely this is Kroenke buying land to develop as he frequently does in his day job. He's a smart man, so he knows how this will be spun and the leverage it will give him.
I still think it's at least 75% that the Rams stay in LA. The notion that Kroenke doesn't care about St. Louis is silly. He clearly does and I don't just mean because of silly things like who he's named after. Peculiar as it may seem, absolutely every off-the-field thing the Rams have done since Kroenke took over has been to further support, cement, and grow their hold in the St. Louis region... except the handling of the stadium situation.
That's obviously a huge exception. And it's frustrating to have to go through this. But I think Kroenke wants a new stadium in St. Louis. They just need to broker a deal.
I think more than likely this is Kroenke buying land to develop as he frequently does in his day job. He's a smart man, so he knows how this will be spun and the leverage it will give him.
I still think it's at least 75% that the Rams stay in LA. The notion that Kroenke doesn't care about St. Louis is silly. He clearly does and I don't just mean because of silly things like who he's named after. Peculiar as it may seem, absolutely every off-the-field thing the Rams have done since Kroenke took over has been to further support, cement, and grow their hold in the St. Louis region... except the handling of the stadium situation.
That's obviously a huge exception. And it's frustrating to have to go through this. But I think Kroenke wants a new stadium in St. Louis. They just need to broker a deal.
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You don't get to be a billionaire by caring what people think or being loyal to anyone but himself. I'm not denying that he has made the franchise more visible in the community. I'm not saying that i know for a fact, that he doesn't care about the city, But I think he is interested in owning a sports empire and getting richer. Owning a team in Los Angeles makes him much more of a Mogul than owning here. Since he has managed to stay out of the public eye, nobody really knows what he is thinking. Time will tell.
I think, at this point, the odds are 50-50, that he is using this as leverage, versus considering this property as a viable option for a new stadium. Whether it be a done deal or a plan B if talks stall or fail here, I think there has to be legit concern from Nixon and his crew of negotiators. I hope this lights a fire under them. I think we've been complacent, based on the "where will the Rams go" " LA doesn't even have a stadium" premise. Now that Stan owns 60 acres in LA, he has somewhere to go. The SF 49ers built their new venue on 40 acres. Not to mention, this venue, if built in Inglewood, could use the Forum lot as an overflow lot during games. I think they could easily schedule events around football, since they do not have a major tenant. I think we are kidding ourselves if we brush off this development. It is huge news regarding the future of the Rams here in STL.
Here's a rather grounded take from the Los Angeles media:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/ ... z2rv8s4bTR
http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/ ... z2rv8s4bTR
Kroenke's purchase of the L.A.-area land puts additional pressure on St. Louis to come to the bargaining table or risk losing its NFL team. However, 60 acres is probably too small to fit a stadium and the required parking.
It is risky for an NFL owner to take an obvious step toward Los Angeles for a number of reasons.
First, Kroenke could be creating a lame-duck situation for the Rams in St. Louis, potentially driving down attendance dramatically, as was the case when teams that announced they would move lingered in the Houston and Cleveland markets.
In order to move, the Rams would need more than an escape clause in their lease. They would need to satisfy the NFL's relocation guidelines, which require a good-faith negotiation with St. Louis and/or the state of Missouri on a stadium plan.
Because St. Louis has already shown a willingness to spend public money on a venue — something that will not happen in the L.A. market — that would make it more difficult for the Rams to get the NFL's blessing on a move.
The NFL effectively controls the L.A. market, because the league participates heavily in the financing of new stadiums and the awarding of Super Bowls.
In the post-9/11 era, there is a potential Federal Aviation Administration issue with building a stadium at or near Hollywood Park, which sits in the flight path of Los Angeles International Airport. Al Davis, then owner of the L.A. Raiders, got a Hollywood Park proposal approved in the 1990s, but the world was a different place then.
There probably would be a slew of other environmental challenges to building a stadium there — among them traffic and parking issues — particularly next to a large Hollywood Park Tomorrow development.
Already, there are two competing NFL stadium proposals in the Los Angeles area, one next to Staples Center, and another in the City of Industry. Both almost certainly would exert as much political and public pressure as possible to derail a third option.
Finally, a relocation would require a three-quarters majority vote of the league's 32 teams. The fact that the Rams already left this market would be a strike against them. What's more, a team filling the L.A. market would be a detriment to getting stadium deals done in San Diego and Oakland because it would deprive those teams of leverage in their home cities. A coalition of at least nine NFL owners could block any such move.
I personally don't think the Rams are going anywhere .. why would Stan want to lose over a billion $ in relocation fee's just to move a team there.. You still have the situations of San Diego Jacksonville and Oakland and i believe it be hard for those teams to just up and move.. I firmly think if L.A. going to get a team it will be 2 expansion teams and Goodall is as secretive as kroenke...
If they do end up moving i be very surprised !!! This team does mean a lot to most us St.Louisans and they do have a super bowl here and not L.A. however its his money its his team so all we can do is open up a can cola pop some Pcorn get comfy on the sofa and play wait n see...
If they do end up moving i be very surprised !!! This team does mean a lot to most us St.Louisans and they do have a super bowl here and not L.A. however its his money its his team so all we can do is open up a can cola pop some Pcorn get comfy on the sofa and play wait n see...
Randy Karraker tweeted the NFL guidelines for moving a team last night-
Good read
http://www.startribune.com/politics/sta ... 81325.html
Bottom line - This is not Stan's call - It is the league's call -
Good read
http://www.startribune.com/politics/sta ... 81325.html
Bottom line - This is not Stan's call - It is the league's call -
- 3,767
Rams just put out a statement:
Update: Just before 10 a.m. Friday, Kevin Demoff, the executive vice president of Rams operations, sent this statement to the Post-Dispatch:
Another VAGUE statement by the Rams, Kroenke and Demoff. Let the drama continue.
Update: Just before 10 a.m. Friday, Kevin Demoff, the executive vice president of Rams operations, sent this statement to the Post-Dispatch:
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football ... 878d6.html"As real estate developers, the Kroenke Organizations are involved in numerous real estate deals across the country and North America. While we can confirm media reports that we recently purchased land in Inglewood, as a private company we don't typically discuss our plans for commercial or residential investments," the statement said.
"We have yet to decide what we are going to do with the property but we will look at all options, as we do with all of our properties."
Another VAGUE statement by the Rams, Kroenke and Demoff. Let the drama continue.
Kevin and company are putting that 0.14% of uncertainty to work in a hurry. I agree with Bernie that these endeavors which are totally justifiable from a business perspective really handcuff KD's efforts in keeping a committed fan base. It will be interesting to watch the next move/response from our regional leaders in the ominous "Process".
Well, it was actually Wal-Mart that sold this land to Kroenke.gone corporate wrote:The speculation on what's gonna happen to the Rams just got covered in gasoline. For all we know, he's just gonna build another Wal-Mart SuperCenter in Inglewood, as per the original plans. His whole business career has literally been building Wal-Marts across the country. And he has the money to be able to buy such a plot just to pressure negotiations.
No matter. Pressure's higher now to get a deal done. Plus, hey, it's Super Bowl Week, and all the owners will be talking.
Head fake? Or are they really thinking of moving to a Wal-Mart parking lot?
Better question: Anyone on this forum know this land and how real a fit this could be for a stadium, Rams or not?
Keep hope alive...
Except that Kroenke owns the land and not the Rams yet Demoff says "we." It appears he may have inadvertently countermanded his own comment.DogtownBnR wrote:Rams just put out a statement:
Update: Just before 10 a.m. Friday, Kevin Demoff, the executive vice president of Rams operations, sent this statement to the Post-Dispatch:
"As real estate developers, the Kroenke Organizations are involved in numerous real estate deals across the country and North America. While we can confirm media reports that we recently purchased land in Inglewood, as a private company we don't typically discuss our plans for commercial or residential investments," the statement said.
"We have yet to decide what we are going to do with the property but we will look at all options, as we do with all of our properties."
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If Stan is using this as leverage, he is not really concerned about the short term in St. Louis. If he alienates the fanbase for a few seasons, he will gain more in the long run, if he gets what he wants in the long fun. All will be forgotten if he stays. People have short memories. Stan is willing to sacrifice revenue over the next few years, to get a favorable new stadium deal whereever. That appears to be his approach. Bernie did hit the nail on the head, when talking about Stan's undermining the progress Demoff and his people have made in St. Louis.
Now, I'd like to hear a statement from Nixon, as to what he and his group are doing to solve the stadium issue in
St. Louis.
Now, I'd like to hear a statement from Nixon, as to what he and his group are doing to solve the stadium issue in
St. Louis.
Quote from the Commish.............
He gave his 'state of the league address' just now...
When asked by a reporter on Kroenke's purchase:
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell added Friday that the league was kept in the loop of the land purchase.
"Stan is a very large developer, on a global basis," Goodell said. "He has land throughout the country and throughout the world. He has kept us informed of it. Weâre aware of it. There are no plans, to my knowledge, of a stadium development. Anything that would require a stadium development would require multiple votes of the membership."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200000 ... geles-land
He gave his 'state of the league address' just now...
When asked by a reporter on Kroenke's purchase:
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell added Friday that the league was kept in the loop of the land purchase.
"Stan is a very large developer, on a global basis," Goodell said. "He has land throughout the country and throughout the world. He has kept us informed of it. Weâre aware of it. There are no plans, to my knowledge, of a stadium development. Anything that would require a stadium development would require multiple votes of the membership."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200000 ... geles-land
^Agree, Dogtown. What will really be interesting is the hopeful juxtaposition of 2014 being the earmarked year for Fisher's regime and increased W's building fan interest vs. last year of security in the Dome, commitment to STL, etc. Personally I'll plan for continued less than impressive attendance and be pleasantly surprised if we come out in droves. What does everyone think? If they come out looking dominant will that outweigh the rest of the nonsense that thwarts fan interest/commitment?
Almost every time I've flown in/out of LAX it's on a path that takes you right over the spot that Kronke just bought. In a post 9/11 world I serious doubt they'd let a football stadium get placed there.
Any NFL team that wants to have a new home for the 2015 season has to apply before Feb 15th of 2014. Stan just got this land, there is no chance in hack that you can get anything off the ground in 2 weeks.
And if Stan wanted to leave, he would do it ASAP and play at USCs stadium while his was built, that way he isn't stuck here for years of awful revenues here while his stadium is being built.
So what all of this means is that Nixon, city county leaders and Stan have until feb of 2015 to come up with something or really feb of 2016 because I doubt he can get a application off the ground by feb of 2015. So let's say in summer of 2015 a deal for new stadium in stl is announced. All the red tape environmental work takes a year, 2 years to build it and bam we are in 2018-2019 and the bonds for the dome are
Paid off in 2021. Much easier to sell the public on paying for 1 stadium at a time then two. (I'm sure some funding can be worked out where the Gov entities don't start paying until 2021
And if Stan wanted to leave, he would do it ASAP and play at USCs stadium while his was built, that way he isn't stuck here for years of awful revenues here while his stadium is being built.
So what all of this means is that Nixon, city county leaders and Stan have until feb of 2015 to come up with something or really feb of 2016 because I doubt he can get a application off the ground by feb of 2015. So let's say in summer of 2015 a deal for new stadium in stl is announced. All the red tape environmental work takes a year, 2 years to build it and bam we are in 2018-2019 and the bonds for the dome are
Paid off in 2021. Much easier to sell the public on paying for 1 stadium at a time then two. (I'm sure some funding can be worked out where the Gov entities don't start paying until 2021
^Dweebe, Don't see that as an issue whatsoever considering their is a couple thousand flights in the air at a given time and WTC has hit with planes that departed Boston. Maybe no blimp coverage but NFL is not going to pass up a pay day and huge market for the blimp shot.
Back to the land purchase, good reminder why Stan K is a rich man not a leader.
As far as Gov. Nixon, I expect him to be as tight lipped as possible or at least wait until the current statehouse session is over for the year. Which fits wills with 2015 date for all parties. Why open his mouth now when the GOP controlled statehouse and himself are wheeling in dealing for a backroom tax cut/tax credit reform deal. Unlike Stan K, his has to negotiate for his leverage. What will be in interesting to me is if McKee can get his tax credit revised and what changes will be incorporated. It is one way to route tax revenues to a new stadium but will come at a cost to other tax credits.
As far as soccer specific, it would be great if World Wide Technology founder stepped up to the plate and went to the city with a proposal. I will bring a MLS team to town if the city can help me build a soccer specific stadium downtown along as it is near metrolink/proposed streetcar with expandable footprint for friendlies and/or cut a deal with city/DeWitt for use of Busch stadium for the larger soccer events. Heck, ask DeWitt if he wants to partner on a soccer stadium near Busch Stadium along broadway (another event generator for BPV) or with LHM/McKee as part of northside (another event generator for Union Station) or north riverfront with Drury Family (Tropicana and Drury family now have a stake in developing Lacledes Landing) . Might backfire, but it would be interesting to see the RAMS take away is as well as shake out the county/regions position.
Back to the land purchase, good reminder why Stan K is a rich man not a leader.
As far as Gov. Nixon, I expect him to be as tight lipped as possible or at least wait until the current statehouse session is over for the year. Which fits wills with 2015 date for all parties. Why open his mouth now when the GOP controlled statehouse and himself are wheeling in dealing for a backroom tax cut/tax credit reform deal. Unlike Stan K, his has to negotiate for his leverage. What will be in interesting to me is if McKee can get his tax credit revised and what changes will be incorporated. It is one way to route tax revenues to a new stadium but will come at a cost to other tax credits.
As far as soccer specific, it would be great if World Wide Technology founder stepped up to the plate and went to the city with a proposal. I will bring a MLS team to town if the city can help me build a soccer specific stadium downtown along as it is near metrolink/proposed streetcar with expandable footprint for friendlies and/or cut a deal with city/DeWitt for use of Busch stadium for the larger soccer events. Heck, ask DeWitt if he wants to partner on a soccer stadium near Busch Stadium along broadway (another event generator for BPV) or with LHM/McKee as part of northside (another event generator for Union Station) or north riverfront with Drury Family (Tropicana and Drury family now have a stake in developing Lacledes Landing) . Might backfire, but it would be interesting to see the RAMS take away is as well as shake out the county/regions position.
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The transfer rules document from an earlier post says,Knowitall wrote:Any NFL team that wants to have a new home for the 2015 season has to apply before Feb 15th of 2014. Stan just got this land, there is no chance in hack that you can get anything off the ground in 2 weeks.
And if Stan wanted to leave, he would do it ASAP and play at USCs stadium while his was built, that way he isn't stuck here for years of awful revenues here while his stadium is being built.
So what all of this means is that Nixon, city county leaders and Stan have until feb of 2015 to come up with something or really feb of 2016 because I doubt he can get a application off the ground by feb of 2015. So let's say in summer of 2015 a deal for new stadium in stl is announced. All the red tape environmental work takes a year, 2 years to build it and bam we are in 2018-2019 and the bonds for the dome are
Paid off in 2021. Much easier to sell the public on paying for 1 stadium at a time then two. (I'm sure some funding can be worked out where the Gov entities don't start paying until 2021
"The notice must be filed no later than February 15 of the year in which the move is scheduled to occur."
So that means they would not need to notify the community of a move for the 2015 season until Feb 15th, 2015, not 2014.
This is consistent with Kevin Demoff's answer at the lunch that the Rams would need to notify the Dome by spring of 2015 if they were planning to play the 2015 season in the dome. I guess he's been checking out the move rules.
- 3,767
As posted earlier, THIS:
http://www.startribune.com/politics/sta ... 81325.html
will make it that much more difficult to move. That is on top of the other factors. There are rules, approvals needed and fees to pay, before Stan can move the team. I do not think anything will keep the Rams here if he really wants to move. Goodell wants teams to stay put, but Stan is a powerful owner and is well liked. He is part of the billionaire boys club. He will get what he wants, even if he has to pay IMO.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/sta ... 81325.html
will make it that much more difficult to move. That is on top of the other factors. There are rules, approvals needed and fees to pay, before Stan can move the team. I do not think anything will keep the Rams here if he really wants to move. Goodell wants teams to stay put, but Stan is a powerful owner and is well liked. He is part of the billionaire boys club. He will get what he wants, even if he has to pay IMO.
You are correct and 9/11 didn't stop Citi Field from getting built to replace Shea. But this spot is right along the final approach and takeoff path. I want to say when you're landing at LAX you're not far above the Hollywood Race Track and that the pilots seem to use it as a mark to put the landing gear down.dredger wrote:^Dweebe, Don't see that as an issue whatsoever considering their is a couple thousand flights in the air at a given time and WTC has hit with planes that departed Boston. Maybe no blimp coverage but NFL is not going to pass up a pay day and huge market for the blimp shot.
I really don't think the airport is an issue. When landing in Philly you fly right over the Eagles stadium. In addition to NFL games, it's probably the most frequent site for the Army-Navy game, which usually attracts the President or some other high-ranking executive branch official and pretty much the entirety of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.