I could possibly consider vouchers for private schools that voluntarily comply with state standards and regulations, but not for those that want public money and teach children that dinosaurs lived with humans or will kick you out if you have two mommys. Also, too, grifters grift so when public money is involved without accountability I can see a lot of abuse with shady private schools opening. Establishing more quality, accountable charters with strong institutional involvement (e.g. Wash U with KIPP) seems the better way to go.
roger wyoming II wrote:I could possibly consider vouchers for private schools that voluntarily comply with state standards and regulations, but not for those that want public money and teach children that dinosaurs lived with humans or will kick you out if you have two mommys. Also, too, grifters grift so when public money is involved without accountability I can see a lot of abuse with shady private schools opening. Establishing more quality, accountable charters with strong institutional involvement (e.g. Wash U with KIPP) seems the better way to go.
While folks may agree or disagree with, lets be honest, religious schools being funded via school tax dollars, regardless of what I believe, I'd rather my tax dollars educate a child in a religion that is not my own (or no religion at all) than have my tax dollars go to a failing school district. I get that some people might have stronger options on the matter, but thats just how I see it.
As for shady/money grab for-profit schools, who would send their kids there when there are ample other options to choose from? These schools would quickly be run out of business through competition, even without accountable standards. I still think a reasonable base line ciriculum is needed and should be enforced, just saying....
jem79c wrote: As for shady/money grab for-profit schools, who would send their kids there when there are ample other options to choose from? These schools would quickly be run out of business through competition, even without accountable standards.
Why would they care? They get to set up shop for several years, rake in the cash, and then perhaps eventually close. This was a common feature of charters until the state finally required some form of accountability. Same is happening in other states where there is no scrutiny. Grifters grift. And that isn't even taking into account systems like Imagine Academy or "here's the latest idea schools" to garner attraction such as online schools, etc. with no real documentation that their model works. Transfers to other districts and accountable charters would be more than adequate to address the issue w/o dismantling the American Public Education System imo.
can't recall the exact number but I think that there are around 20 districts in the county. That's crazy.
How many districts do comparable metro areas have? I've never really thought of STL as having an excessive number of school districts. Sure, there are some smaller ones (like Brentwood, for instance) that could be merged with larger ones (like Webster or MRH), but it seems like many of the districts serve fairly large areas.
I think 20 or so for a metro area is alright but for a county that's too many. I did just a bit of checking and I found Indianapolis/Marion County: 9; Atlanta/Fulton: 2; Denver/Denver: 3. I'm sure if you look at places like Pittsburgh/Allegheny County that also suffer from burgsville-itis they'd have more similar number to ours, but again I think consolidation is the way to go.
I think 20 or so for a metro area is alright but for a county that's too many. I did just a bit of checking and I found Indianapolis/Marion County: 9; Atlanta/Fulton: 2; Denver/Denver: 3. I'm sure if you look at places like Pittsburgh/Allegheny County that also suffer from burgsville-itis they'd have more similar number to ours, but again I think consolidation is the way to go.
Wow, I had no idea. It would be interesting to come up with a list of potential consoldiation candidates.
^ I don't think that was completely unexpected as state officials warned that we should be expecting more districts in the state -- including rural ones -- to lose accreditation with the stricter standards. Seems like the slip may have been worse than expected for SLPS though.
I do wonder about the ever-tougher standards.... should the goal really be to prepare everyone for college? Also, what if Normandy (seems impossible) and Riverview Gardens(perhaps) regain accreditation.... would it be fair to the students who transferred for the few years to have to go back if they want to stay in their new school? More likely it seems they will become insolvent.... what then? And finally, the SLPS is the huge kahuna.... what happens if it loses accreditation? Potentially tens of thousands of kids -- not just ones currently enrolled but all the children of those going to private school or being uprooted for a move to the suburbs -- could make the move. Fascinating to watch.
Also doesn't seem right that charter school's don't factor into district scores.
Parents who have the resources (whatever that split of time, attention, and money is) to invest in their children's learning are probably the one's most likely to put their kids into a charter school.
Again, the regular public schools in St. Louis leave the most impoverished kids with the least amount of parental support. (This is not necessarily a knock on those parents, in many cases I assume they're trying to make ends meet for the family and unfortunately the education becomes secondary.) It's simply no surprise "achievement" remains low.
Until the concentration of poverty is dealt with, it's silly to expect scores to dramatically rise, no matter what tests are taken or what new standards are enforced.
I see on this map that individual Clayton schools look OK (70s and 80s), but then in the article the district is listed as 98.9%. Can anyone shed light on this?
^ I think the map reflects just the MAP testing scores while the 98.9% is the overall Annual Performance Rating upon which accreditation is based. I think these other factors include drop out rates, attendance, etc.
University City, Ferguson-Florissant and Jennings would drop down to provisional accreditation if just based upon 2013 results, btw.
Interesting numbers on the SLPS scores.... obviously the system took a hit overall with the new scoring and hopefully that will turn around as the problems are identified and addressed. But when you look at the individual schools, it appears that the it is a relatively handful of schools that are sinking the overall rating.
Vashon HS got a zero. (In comparison, Roosevelt and Sumner got 35 and 39%, respectively. While not good, those numbers at least give SLPS a fighting chance to reach the 50% overall mark needed for provisional accreditation.) And then there are a few elementary schools like Peabody and Herzog with absolutely horrid numbers. Yet other non-magnet elementary schools like Buder and Cote Brilliante received very high marks. As the article mentions, the good thing about this is that SLPS already has taken the poorest performers under strict central control and hopefully will see marked improvement. I think that is another benefit of our being a rather small district --- we have problems but its easier to zero in on them; Chicago on the other hand has 400,000 students! How do you tackle that?
quincunx wrote:I heard on the radio that people are moving into the unaccredited districts in order to send their kid anywhere. I'll be curious to see how big of a phenomenon this becomes.
Looks like this has become significant. I think it's a combination of families who have moved and who were already living in the district but were going to private schools. My guess a majority is the latter because there wasn't much time to figure out and decide to move. Much more on th whole topic in the article.
STL Beacon - Lawmakers get an earful on how transfer law may be changed
State Sen. Jamilah Nasheed, D-St. Louis, told Nicastro that such a situation, or having students who live in the unaccredited districts but have not attended school there also sign up to transfer, has been a big drain on Normandy and Riverview Gardens.
Spurgeon said he had 238 students sign up to transfer who had never been in his district’s schools.
Important forums on the potential closure of Mann Elementary in TGS and demolition of the historic Shenandoah Elementary school building in TGE are going to be held this evening and Saturday morning.
Scuttlebutt seems to be that closure of Mann is pretty much inevitable but the key question is whether SLPS will demolish Shenandoah and build new there or heed calls to renovate and expand.
I'm definitely for the renovate and expand alternative and glad that pre-K will be added (I think this is part of the plan) but I'd also like to see Mann stay open. I think neighborhood schools are critical for long-term success and with steady progress in performance, I believe more middle class parents will feel comfortable sending their kids to neighborhood SLPS schools.
^ I went to the event tonight and there was a near revolt as the alternative to keep both schools open was not even presented. There was a lot of support for keeping Mann School open.
I personally am hoping the city schools fail and lose accreditation. I have young children that will be going to school in a few years... if we don't have an option to choose which school they go to then we'll regrettably move to the suburbs.
I'm not looking forward to it by any means... we love the city... but sending my kids to a school district that has been a complete failure for 5 decades and putting their future in jeopardy is not an option.
From what I have read it looks like the educational bureaucrats in these failed districts are going to try and do everything in their power to force these kids to go to their failed schools where they won't learn anything. Apparently keeping their own job is more important than the kids they are suppose to serve.
bdoyle, what schools are you researching? Have you looked into the Charter and magnet schools for your children? Before you bolt for the burbs, feel free to pm me and I can send you a list of schools that are viable options for city kids. In many cases, these schools may be even better than the free schools in the high-property tax cities in the county. Feel free to contact me, I'd be happy to talk to you candidly from a place of experience. Good luck.
If you're a good parent who cares about your children's education (and it sounds like you absolutely are) and has the resources and time to make it a priority, your kids will absolutely learn and be successful.
^ I can't stress enough Mark's point that active parents just need to take the time to actually look into the various public options in Saint Louis City. Especially for parents looking for quality, free pre-school, not looking into SLPS is certifiably insane!
If after looking into things, parents just don't find the right fit or feel comfortably, then I can understand that. But families can do better than just pick up and leave for the burbs w/o any effort to look into options.
Questions regarding the Shenandoah/Mann meetings this weekend - I had a plumbing emergency that massively disrupted my weekend plans and so couldn't attend.
1) My understanding is that the SLPS superintendent sees the demographics around Tower Grove as an opportunity to improve SLPS by catering to the families in that neighborhood. Is it true that the new elementary school (or renovated school) would be a neighborhood-based school, and that it would be large enough to serve stroller central / aka Shaw, Tower Grove etc?
2) If (1) is true, are there any plans to extend this neighborhood based approach to middle and high school so as to capture to increasingly affluent (and thus high performing) demographics of the well-educated, professional-anchored families in the surrounding neighborhood?
bdoyle wrote:I personally am hoping the city schools fail and lose accreditation. I have young children that will be going to school in a few years... if we don't have an option to choose which school they go to then we'll regrettably move to the suburbs.
I'm not looking forward to it by any means... we love the city... but sending my kids to a school district that has been a complete failure for 5 decades and putting their future in jeopardy is not an option.
From what I have read it looks like the educational bureaucrats in these failed districts are going to try and do everything in their power to force these kids to go to their failed schools where they won't learn anything. Apparently keeping their own job is more important than the kids they are suppose to serve.
Yes, the school district sucks (and probably won't get significantly better anytime soon), but there are individual schools in the City that perform at a high level. My oldest started at Mallinckrodt this year and so far I am very pleased. If she stays on her track, she'll go to McKinley for middle school and Metro for high school (a couple of the highest performing schools in the state). I also like that if for some reason I sour on Mallinckrodt, there are several other tuition-free alternatives in the City. In that regard, staying in the City is better because you have more options.