I agree, teachers aren't the problem. Is it safe to say the school journey - the curriculum, the schedule, the extracurricular support structure - should have been constructed differently for students dealing with 1,2, and 3 than for students coming from a more stable and supportive middle class background? Such that those kids might have had a chance despite their background issues?I didn't go to SLPS, but I did go to a public school in another state that generally produced very low standardized test scores and a high dropout rate. Clearly, some teachers were better than others, but I never experienced a "substandard" teacher. I think the issues that caused the poor performance at my school were, in no order of importance:
1. Economic issues (working class area that was hit very hard when factories closed; district also included a large public housing development)
2. Lack of parental involvement (economic issues plus lots of single-parent households made increasing parental involvement difficult)
3. Low expectations set by the community and administrators resulting in less than 10 high school seniors per year (and some years less than 5) moving on to a 4-year college
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Until very recently there were few good charter options. Fortunately, more accountability is being forced upon charters and I think we are seeing better results as there are some good schools emerging. I am optimistic that parents will continue to see increasing options provided by good SLPS and charter schools.Gateway City wrote:If only we had known then about some of the great charter schools in the city, it would be a different story. I don't know about y'all, but whenever I have a kid, I plan to try my darndest to get them into a good charter school in the city. Since that's a long way away, I like to think there will be more options by then, too.
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Gateway Science Academy has a school in the Lindenwood Park neighborhood and is opening a second elementary campus in the former Gardenville School in Princeton Heights.
http://www.stlouiscitytalk.com/2013/06/ ... ademy.html
http://www.stlouiscitytalk.com/2013/06/ ... ademy.html
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/colu ... 25e2c.html
The hulabaloo at Grand Center Arts Academy highlights the fact that parental involvement is the single most important driver of a school's success. Leave the city, and you are part of the problem. Stay and fight, and things will change.
The hulabaloo at Grand Center Arts Academy highlights the fact that parental involvement is the single most important driver of a school's success. Leave the city, and you are part of the problem. Stay and fight, and things will change.
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^ What if you leave the city and become really involved in your county school and are part of the solution there? 
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This is the St. Louis Public Schools thread, right? I know nothing of the suburban schools and don't pretend to. The district I care most about is my own, and I bet most parents would agree. Sorry if that comes across as selfish or parochial, but I really don't care about Parkway or Francis Howell or Clayton. I am part of the schools in St. Louis because I live here and my kids go there. It means a lot to me and the future of our city. I'm more interested in St. Louis problems; but, I applaud any parent who loves their school/kids and works hard for it.
An interesting article in the Post-Dispatch about how cooperation between SLPS and the teacher's union works to mentor or remove struggling teachers: In St. Louis, teachers union plays role in getting rid of bad teachers
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Mallinkrodt Academy of Gifted Instruction, the second of 2 gifted/accelerated programs in the SLPS.
http://www.stlouiscitytalk.com/2013/07/ ... ifted.html
http://www.stlouiscitytalk.com/2013/07/ ... ifted.html
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Not to get off topic but relevant considering St. Louis City Schools only recently recieved partial accreditation after five years being unaccredited. The Riverview Gardens School District just voted to send their buses to Mehlville.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/educ ... 95a9e.html
A recent ruling by the MO Supreme Court upheld a law that an unaccedited school district must pay for their students to go to school in any accredited district in the same county or an adjacent county. What I don't get is why in the world they would pick the furthest district in the county to send their buses. Not that the students have to go to Mehlville but unless mom or dad can make time to drive you or enduring untold hours riding public transportation, that's your only option. It's obvious a decision like that is made not in consideration for the child but rather as a deterent. The state forces the unaccredited school to pay for the student to attend another school so they decide to pick the most farthest place they can to make it inconvienient for the student to attend. Riverview Gardens and Mehlville are the two northernmost and southernmost districts in the county. Who wants to get up five in the morning to make an eight oclock class. So a lot of these students will probably end up standing pat. Normandy isn't any better. They picked Francis Howell to send their students. St. Louis City on the other hand looks to have dodged a bullet. They got back accreditation just this past fall and at least won't be forced into this dysfuctional game of musical chairs. How did St. Louis handle the placement of their students during their unaccredited five years. Were they still required to pay some of the cost for students who decided to attend elsewhere? (I tried reading through the tread to find the answer but I gave up after about ten pages.)
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/educ ... 95a9e.html
A recent ruling by the MO Supreme Court upheld a law that an unaccedited school district must pay for their students to go to school in any accredited district in the same county or an adjacent county. What I don't get is why in the world they would pick the furthest district in the county to send their buses. Not that the students have to go to Mehlville but unless mom or dad can make time to drive you or enduring untold hours riding public transportation, that's your only option. It's obvious a decision like that is made not in consideration for the child but rather as a deterent. The state forces the unaccredited school to pay for the student to attend another school so they decide to pick the most farthest place they can to make it inconvienient for the student to attend. Riverview Gardens and Mehlville are the two northernmost and southernmost districts in the county. Who wants to get up five in the morning to make an eight oclock class. So a lot of these students will probably end up standing pat. Normandy isn't any better. They picked Francis Howell to send their students. St. Louis City on the other hand looks to have dodged a bullet. They got back accreditation just this past fall and at least won't be forced into this dysfuctional game of musical chairs. How did St. Louis handle the placement of their students during their unaccredited five years. Were they still required to pay some of the cost for students who decided to attend elsewhere? (I tried reading through the tread to find the answer but I gave up after about ten pages.)
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^ Keep in mind that students in Normandy and Riverview can go to other school districts; but they'll have to pay their own transportation costs.
I think these receiving school systems were chosen out of really no other choice. If Normandy and Riverview chose the closest decent district to their own, there would be 1) wide-scale student flight, paid for by the losing district and 2) associated transportation costs, again borne by the losing district. There would be a very real possibility that the district would be eviscerated. However, it should be noted that technically students could have been sent all the way out to Hillsboro or DeSoto in Jefferson County, so only going out to Mehlville wasn't so bad by comparison!
As for SLPS, it wasn't really effected because at the time the legal issues were unsettled and there were only a few parents who sent their children to other districts. And they had to pay. (I think the plaintiffs sent their kids to Ladue schools; since they finally won the case I assume they'll be reimbursed.) It is only now that the legal issues have finally shaken out that we now see the district-wide impacts facing Riverview, Normandy and Kansas City schools systems.
I think these receiving school systems were chosen out of really no other choice. If Normandy and Riverview chose the closest decent district to their own, there would be 1) wide-scale student flight, paid for by the losing district and 2) associated transportation costs, again borne by the losing district. There would be a very real possibility that the district would be eviscerated. However, it should be noted that technically students could have been sent all the way out to Hillsboro or DeSoto in Jefferson County, so only going out to Mehlville wasn't so bad by comparison!
As for SLPS, it wasn't really effected because at the time the legal issues were unsettled and there were only a few parents who sent their children to other districts. And they had to pay. (I think the plaintiffs sent their kids to Ladue schools; since they finally won the case I assume they'll be reimbursed.) It is only now that the legal issues have finally shaken out that we now see the district-wide impacts facing Riverview, Normandy and Kansas City schools systems.
Regarding the school transfers, I saw an interesting new story where a parent of Normandy students was talking about sending their kids to Saint Louis Public schools; I think Cleveland Naval ROTC was one mentioned.
This whole school transfer thing is becoming quite a mess. For receiving districts, there is a degree of blatant racism being shown (We love school choice. Wait, you mean the n (insert Blazing Saddle's affect here) will choosing our school? Heck's no!)
However, it also is crazy that these schools are being asked to accommodate possibly significant numbers of new students one month before school begins. Certainly something the legislature needs to tweak next year to make for a more orderly system.
However, it also is crazy that these schools are being asked to accommodate possibly significant numbers of new students one month before school begins. Certainly something the legislature needs to tweak next year to make for a more orderly system.
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Yes it's a mess and blatant racism. Lets also not forget the recent switch to "provisional accreditation" for SLPS which I think was only done to reduce the possibility of a large exodus to nearby districts. Very coincidental.
Tensions are high.
stlpublicradio - Francis Howell Parents Express Outrage Over Incoming Normandy Students
http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/fra ... y-students
stlpublicradio - Francis Howell Parents Express Outrage Over Incoming Normandy Students
http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/fra ... y-students
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I started a thread on Francis Howell district in the St. Charles section, and there is a discussion on this St. Charles-Normandy issue. This one if fascinating to watch play out.
Great to see KIPP expanding their reach to the Visitation Park area. I can say they've made a positive impact in Fox Park. The SLPS is allowing KIPP to use the old Mitchell School at 955 Arcade Avenue for an elementary school slated to open in fall 2014...for free. That is goodwill. Things continue to get better in St. Louis as more options are provided.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/educ ... d8aa5.html
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/educ ... d8aa5.html
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^ This has a number of positives... one thing I had heard about KIPP nationally is that there were accusations that they'd dump their low-acheivers back into the school district shortly before test time so as to keep their scores high. Don't know how systematic that is/was and I had not heard anything locally, but with this collaboration it looks like the KIPP scores will be reflected in the SLPS numbers. In general, I am wary of charters, but building relations with sound ones with proven records is worthwhile, I believe. How can we clone Citygarden Montesorri into other nabes?
From a preservation viewpoint, it also gives life to some of these old school buildings that in the past likely would face the prospect of being torn down.
From a preservation viewpoint, it also gives life to some of these old school buildings that in the past likely would face the prospect of being torn down.
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SLPS considering building new school, reauiring closure of Mann and Sherman (which was already closed) and tearing down...ugh...here it comes: Shenandoah School
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/educ ... d412f.html
Time to rally?
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/educ ... d412f.html
Time to rally?
So...the replacement would or would not be a neighborhood school? And by neighborhood, I mean reasonably within the walking radius of the 6 year olds that will be attending it?
Absolutely! They did say they would consider renovating and adding on to the existing structure, so I still have some hope, but geez...how can they even think about tearing down that gorgeous, irreplaceable building? Or how about buying St. Elizabeth's instead of building new? It seems more centrally located to these neighborhoods anyway, and would probably be cheaper.Mark Groth wrote:SLPS considering building new school, reauiring closure of Mann and Sherman (which was already closed) and tearing down...ugh...here it comes: Shenandoah School
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/educ ... d412f.html
Time to rally?
As a parent myself, I have a very different take, To me it would not be about historic preservation. The question, what should the best path forward that would serve the kids and parents of a city neighborhood that is actually seeing kids again. It comes down to one simple fact, if you want dense urban neighbors to repopulate city you need kids and families. In this case, as a parent simply saving an historic building for the sake of the building itself instead of its intended purpose of being a school is not a good path to go down in the long run.dmmonty1 wrote:Absolutely! They did say they would consider renovating and adding on to the existing structure, so I still have some hope, but geez...how can they even think about tearing down that gorgeous, irreplaceable building? Or how about buying St. Elizabeth's instead of building new? It seems more centrally located to these neighborhoods anyway, and would probably be cheaper.Mark Groth wrote:SLPS considering building new school, reauiring closure of Mann and Sherman (which was already closed) and tearing down...ugh...here it comes: Shenandoah School
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/educ ... d412f.html
Time to rally?
^I don't think anyone is advocating saving the building rather than providing a school for the neighborhood families. The question is, is that a choice that has to be made at all? I think SLPS and the TGS neighborhood are in the early stages of answering that question. The school district itself said they would renovate or add-on to the existing building if that's what the community wants, so that sounds like a viable option for having your cake and eating it too.
Demolition should only be considered once other options have been exhausted.
Demolition should only be considered once other options have been exhausted.
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Do you have any children in one of these old school buildings? I do. Yes, the buildings are beautiful and very well built. However, this means that they are also inordinately expensive to modify and update.
The buildings were designed and constructed in another era. Needs have changed dramatically over the past 80-100 years.
It doesn't require months or years of studies and debate to know that the useful life of many of these structures has drawn to a close. Since we're talking about kids and, by proxy, the long-term viability of the City, let's not obstruct SLPS (and give it yet another potential excuse for failure).
The buildings were designed and constructed in another era. Needs have changed dramatically over the past 80-100 years.
It doesn't require months or years of studies and debate to know that the useful life of many of these structures has drawn to a close. Since we're talking about kids and, by proxy, the long-term viability of the City, let's not obstruct SLPS (and give it yet another potential excuse for failure).
^ Would large employers considering moving to downtown consider these older buildings an asset or a negative? I'm all for holding onto the buildings if plausible, but sometimes, and I think SLPS are a good example, a fresh start is needed - truly out with the old in with the new.
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How hard can it be to retro-fit an older building with modern electricity, WiFi, kitchen and HVAC? What else is required for a modern school? My house was a two family built in 1908 without central air, etc. It's now a single family home with all the modern living amenitites. I don't get why we can't preserve our architectural history while providing kids with adequate to excellent educational options. It's quality families and kids that will make the schools better, not new buildings. Frankly, I drive by the modern schools in Columbia, IL, Parkway, even Ladue and I'm not that impressed... Also, I've had a pretty great experience with the SLPS so far, and my kids have been in Kennard and now McKinley...both old classics.