^Sounds about right - SWA has been expanding like crazy at the airport over the last 10 or so years so I'm not too thrown off by the numbers but this is really encouraging information! With the ATL operations slowing down over the next couple years, I hope we can take some of those flights or at least be able to split them with BNA or MDW and continue to expand the presence here. I'm confident this will fuel the desire for a new terminal even more and drive more momentum towards finalizing plans and getting all the approvals and signatures needed to start work on a new terminal!
Starting May 1st, Air Canada will begin using mainline aircraft for flights from Toronto to St. Louis. Specifically the Airbus A220-300.
Link To Article
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Link To Article
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Happy to see the larger aircraft. I had thought about using Air Canada to Europe for a better one stop to London. Now, I have never done it, but I was not happy with Chicago or Charlotte for American. Almost missed BOTH connections, arriving as the door was about to be pulled closed in Chicago due to delays landing.
Air Canada is not known for operational reliability. Ask any Canadian lol. I wouldn’t mind taking them again but not with a checked bag or a destination not in Canada.STLCityMike wrote: ↑Nov 20, 2024Happy to see the larger aircraft. I had thought about using Air Canada to Europe for a better one stop to London. Now, I have never done it, but I was not happy with Chicago or Charlotte for American. Almost missed BOTH connections, arriving as the door was about to be pulled closed in Chicago due to delays landing.
Mainline should be better than Jazz/RJ.StlO7 wrote: ↑Nov 20, 2024Air Canada is not known for operational reliability. Ask any Canadian lol. I wouldn’t mind taking them again but not with a checked bag or a destination not in Canada.STLCityMike wrote: ↑Nov 20, 2024Happy to see the larger aircraft. I had thought about using Air Canada to Europe for a better one stop to London. Now, I have never done it, but I was not happy with Chicago or Charlotte for American. Almost missed BOTH connections, arriving as the door was about to be pulled closed in Chicago due to delays landing.
Take a moment to appreciate how much better STL is doing than KC (MCI), even with its new terminal. KC lost its Air Canada service in the same announcement. STL has two dailies to Toronto, one of which is getting this larger plane. We also have one daily (seasonal) to Montreal.
I flew the route to Toronto once this summer, on the current CRJ jet. I thought the service was a step above what I would expect for a sub-three-hour domestic flight- snack, drink, etc. I was in economy, but I saw that business had a plated meal.
I flew the route to Toronto once this summer, on the current CRJ jet. I thought the service was a step above what I would expect for a sub-three-hour domestic flight- snack, drink, etc. I was in economy, but I saw that business had a plated meal.
I had that meal. It was smoked salmon with a deviled egg, potato salad, and some random creams. Beautifully Canadian and I ate every bit of it to the disgust of my wife...NHampton wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024Take a moment to appreciate how much better STL is doing than KC (MCI), even with its new terminal. KC lost its Air Canada service in the same announcement. STL has two dailies to Toronto, one of which is getting this larger plane. We also have one daily (seasonal) to Montreal.
I flew the route to Toronto once this summer, on the current CRJ jet. I thought the service was a step above what I would expect for a sub-three-hour domestic flight- snack, drink, etc. I was in economy, but I saw that business had a plated meal.
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They should have some poutine.robertn42 wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024I had that meal. It was smoked salmon with a deviled egg, potato salad, and some random creams. Beautifully Canadian and I ate every bit of it to the disgust of my wife...NHampton wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024Take a moment to appreciate how much better STL is doing than KC (MCI), even with its new terminal. KC lost its Air Canada service in the same announcement. STL has two dailies to Toronto, one of which is getting this larger plane. We also have one daily (seasonal) to Montreal.
I flew the route to Toronto once this summer, on the current CRJ jet. I thought the service was a step above what I would expect for a sub-three-hour domestic flight- snack, drink, etc. I was in economy, but I saw that business had a plated meal.
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Oh . . . poutine on a plane. That sounds . . . extravagant. Lovely. God I wish TWA was still a thing. Can you imagine TWA with slingers and gooey butter cake?
Mary Lamie (The Freightway) posted this on LinkedIn. Wasn’t sure if there was an Aviation thread. Like the task force, was part of a MO Econ Dev meeting where this concept was floated for the state’s major industry clusters.
https://www.areadevelopment.com/aerospa ... orce.shtml
https://www.areadevelopment.com/aerospa ... orce.shtml
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... -top-story
A short-lived state initiative to attract more international flights by offering subsidies failed to take off this year despite two airlines declaring interest in new St. Louis routes.
Irish flagship carrier Aer Lingus Airlines told state officials late last year the airline was interested in using state funds to support a new direct flight between St. Louis and Dublin.
More recently, in late July, Air Canada said it was interested in state support to help with a direct route between St. Louis and Vancouver starting next year or in 2026.
Greater St. Louis Inc., an economic development nonprofit, applied for state funds to help secure the two routes.
But neither effort yielded new routes, even though legislators and Gov. Mike Parson set aside $5 million in federal COVID-19 relief funds last year for a newly established International Flight Program.
The program has closed and will not reopen, Kim Froemsdorf, division director of federal initiatives for the Department of Economic Development, said this week.
She said federal regulations require funds used for the program, provided through the federal American Rescue Plan Act, to be obligated by Dec. 31.
Greater St. Louis Inc. in December applied for $2.5 million from the state to help support nonstop service between St. Louis and Dublin, with an average of four to five weekly departures anticipated most of the year.
In response, the state on March 1 issued a proposal letter offering up to $2.5 million for the route. But Froemsdorf said the Dublin proposal “did not move forward.”
Incredible article! Takeaway... St. Louis is showing up to compete. Vancouver flights are in our future!
KC not having enough airline interest to even request the funding is bleak. Especially considering loss of Air Canada in that market.
KC not having enough airline interest to even request the funding is bleak. Especially considering loss of Air Canada in that market.
Our problems are because Missouri won't commit to what all other cities we compete with already have: a competitive incentive. As a result of MO's refusal, STL stands out as the only midsized/top-25 metro area without flights to London, while other, smaller metro areas with proven demand to London way less than STL has already benefit from nonstop flights. A nonstop flight from London to STL would literally bring tens of millions of dollars in commerce, tax dollars, and tourism demand, a huge return on investment from just a $2-$3 million increase in their current incentive amount. It's a no-brainer to every state except Missouri. As a result, we all suffer, as the entire state would benefit from these flights. Many of the travelers continue on to other parts of Missouri, and the tax dollars generate from these tourists benefit the entire state, too. The outstate MO residents would benefit from the nonstop connectivity too. Again, a no-brainer for everywhere except Missouri.jshank83 wrote: ↑Oct 08, 2024Latest I’ve heard is it may go to Charlotte instead of Indy (or Raleigh). Sounds like our incentive offer isn’t as high as othersjshank83 wrote: ↑Oct 04, 2024Same boat for me. I’ve heard nothing on our end. That said supposedly there was an RFP due Sept 30th. So it’s feasible all the airports picked don’t even know yet. Nashvilles announcement might have been moved up from next week to counter the Iceland air announcement they had last week so they could get bookings open.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Oct 04, 2024Generally before the announcement there is stuff in the background, like with Lufthansa I knew weeks before and I’m not hearing any chatter like that this time. Now that doesn’t mean it won’t happen, they could all be keep it close to the vest
I feel like this is a very different process from Lufthansa’s.
The IND incentive is truly an outlier and smacks of desperation. Nobody else in their right mind will pay that much. Ohio is the biggest spender, from what I've read online, paying $4 per year for 2 or 3 years. And this is potential maximum payout based on revenue guarantees. If the route is successful, they will be paying very little to the airline. Also, the max is usually based on daily, year-around service. Usually these flights to secondary metro areas are 3-4x/week and sometimes pause completely in Jan-Feb. That being said, the state of Missouri needs to get their head out of the sand and stop offering way less than everyone else does. They have been going out of their way to choke STL and KC, then blame them for not performing well.addxb2 wrote: ↑Oct 21, 2024Incentive package totaling $17M for four times a week on a narrow body aircraft to Ireland. If this is what STL was competing against, STL dodged a bullet.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:Indianapolis getting Air Lingus flight starting early 2025:
https://fox59.com/indiana-news/indianap ... -2025/amp/
Supposedly BNA + Nashville + Tennessee came up with more $$$ than STL + St Louis + Missouri did, which is not surprising, given Missouri's reluctance to be competitive, shooting themselves in their own foot. Nashville has only 7 more passengers per day each way (PDEW) going to/from Dublin. Indianapolis has the same number of people going to Dublin as STL does. Not only did IND come up with a crazy desperate incentive amount, way more than anyone is offering, but also Aer Lingus is apparently only confident in one A321xlr arriving before the flights start next spring. Nashville is 4x/week, and Indianapolis is also 4x/week, but they can use one of their A321LR's for Indianapolis since on Saturdays, when both BNA and IND will be flying to DUB, because the LR can make it to Dublin.TRUESONJB wrote: ↑Oct 08, 2024https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... light.html
Nashville – not St. Louis – scores nonstop flight to Dublin
Aer Lingus will begin nonstop service between Dublin and BNA next year.
Frank Grealish / IrishAirPics.com frank@irishairpics.com
By Adam Sichko and Jacob Kirn – St. Louis Business Journal
Oct 7, 2024
Nashville International Airport has won yet another nonstop route to Europe.
Airport officials in Nashville revealed a new flight to Dublin, Ireland, on Friday morning — marking the airport's second new nonstop announcement in as many months. The deal with Aer Lingus arrives almost simultaneously with the news just days ago of a nonstop route that Icelandair will fly to Reykjavik.
And just like that, BNA has tripled its nonstop overseas offerings. British Airways flies daily to and from London, a connection that has existed for most of the last six years (save for a pause during the early stage of the pandemic).
The St. Louis Business Journal reported last week that St. Louis officials have sought a nonstop Dublin flight on Aer Lingus, though it wasn't clear what stage any bid was in.
A spokesman for St. Louis Lambert International Airport declined to comment Monday on the Nashville announcement.
St. Louis' only nonstop to Europe is to Frankfurt, Germany, on Lufthansa. It runs three days a week. Prior to Lufthansa's service, which launched in 2022, Lambert had not had nonstop European service since 2003, when American Airlines discontinued a route to London. Lambert had nonstops to Iceland, an island sometimes considered to be part of Europe, from May 2018 to January 2019, when WOW Air ended the service. The airline later shut down.
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Aer Lingus issued this image in its press release announcing the new flight. Pictured at Dublin Airport is Irish country music star Nathan Carter (center), alongside Aer Lingus crew members Lorraine Cullen (left) and Anna Moore (right), celebrating the announcement of Aer Lingus’ new direct route to Nashville.
Naoise Culhane
Aer Lingus will fly an Airbus A321XLR on the Nashville route, which is set to begin on April 12, 2025. Initially, the route will fly on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays and Sundays. The flight will take roughly eight to nine hours, depending which direction passengers are flying.
Passengers can vacation in Dublin or connect to 22 European destinations including Paris, Barcelona, Rome, Amsterdam and Berlin.
"This flight is transformational for our connectivity not just to Ireland but all of Europe," said Mark Ezell, commissioner of Tennessee's tourism department. He called the flight "a perfect fit for us."
"With our third nonstop flight to Europe, the sky's the limit on what [business] we'll be able to drive," Ezell said.
Adding more nonstop transatlantic flights has been a top objective for officials at the Metro Nashville Airport Authority as the Nashville region has boomed both in population and economic activity.
"We've been building and saving for the last seven years," CEO Doug Kreulen told the Nashville Business Journal in early September.
That work includes building a set of six gates intended for international flights that opened one year ago, as part of the airport's ongoing multibillion-dollar expansion. The international gates sit atop a massive underground facility for customs and immigration services.
The "saving" part of Kreulen's comment refers not just to the authority's stronger finances but also the incentive fund created to help entice new routes, both domestic and international.
In this case, the fund will allow Aer Lingus to live rent-free at BNA for three years: The authority will waive its normal airline fees and use the fund to cover those expenses. The fund also will pay for hundreds of thousands of dollars of marketing and advertising to attract attention to the new route.
The fund's current balance was $8.8 million, before commitments made to Icelandair. The amount of those incentives has not been made public. The state of Tennessee and the Nashville Convention & Visitors Corp. also contribute incentives for certain airline recruiting efforts.
In an August memo to board members, Kreulen said the airport authority has been "saving incentive funds for multiple years for just this possibility, two wins at the same time." (That memo identified Aer Lingus and also Germany's Discover Airlines as prospects near the finish line. Currently, it appears Discover will not be flying out of Nashville in 2025.).
The airport authority does not receive funding from Metro government, generating most of its revenue from airline fees, parking, concessions and car rentals. The authority also receives state and federal grants.
"We could not be more happy … and there's definitely more coming next year, I'm pretty darn confident," Kreulen said at the Oct. 4 press conference.
In a March interview, Ireland's tourism minister Catherine Martin sounded encouraged by the prospect of adding a nonstop to Nashville. On a visit to Music City, Martin appointed local businesswoman Amy Seigenthaler Pierce as her government's first Honorary Consul in Tennessee.
BNA has been vying for an Aer Lingus route for at least a year. Airport officials encountered multiple issues along the way, including a dispute between the airline and its pilots that slowed Nashville's momentum.
International travel has reached record highs, with an average of 4,352 people each day leaving Nashville for an international destination or arriving in Music City on such a route.
Almost 1.6 million international passengers arrived or departed from BNA in its last fiscal year, a 12% increase over the prior year. That increase outpaced the airport's overall passenger growth of 8.4%.
Europe is the most popular region, with about 1,200 international passengers traveling to or arriving from such a destination on the average day at BNA.
St. Louis' largest airlines serving Lambert
Passengers Boarded in 2023
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I personally don't see value in offering AL massive money for a flight to Dublin. Would much rather put that money towards British Airways and a London flight.
Not sure how much Nashville put forward, but Indianapolis' incentive is embarrassing. Shows how desperate they are for international recognition that just doesn't exist.
Can't forget that we are the smallest Midwestern city to have a direct flight to Germany.
Not sure how much Nashville put forward, but Indianapolis' incentive is embarrassing. Shows how desperate they are for international recognition that just doesn't exist.
Can't forget that we are the smallest Midwestern city to have a direct flight to Germany.
I wonder what percentage of our London traffic uses Lufthansa through Germany? All the mainline carriers have hubs east of us plus Air Canada through Toronto. American's partner BA offers several options for changing planes in the US to get to London. How are people getting there now from StL?
There are dozens of options to get to LHR with 1 connection from STL. Last year I went there twice. One R/T on BA (horrible airline experience) outbound via ORD return via PHL. The other on AA through BOS. I have no patience for going any further out of the way on a long flight, even going through ATL would annoy me. Going through Frankfurt is definitely out the picture due do all the extra travel time. It's a first world problem, but my wish is that FRA would leave a few hours later in the day. At the time they leave it's hard to get a some sleep compared to flights that leave, 8, 9 or 10pm. Other options out of STL MSP, DTW, IAD, CLT, RDU, Toronto, now Montreal, and I'm sure I'm forgetting a few to the East. You add in Western cities now you have DEN, Houston, Dallas etc.
The article doesn't give a percentage but does say:STLinCHI wrote: ↑Nov 30, 2024I wonder what percentage of our London traffic uses Lufthansa through Germany? All the mainline carriers have hubs east of us plus Air Canada through Toronto. American's partner BA offers several options for changing planes in the US to get to London. How are people getting there now from StL?
In its Dublin application, Greater St. Louis said passengers weren’t using the Frankfurt flight in large numbers to travel to the United Kingdom and far western Europe region.
“Our corporate community will benefit from direct service to the British Isles,” the application said. “Our strong leisure travel base will benefit from Aer Lingus’ reasonable pricing, offering convenient and affordable European travel to more of our region’s citizens.”
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I flew American / BA out through Chicago (nearly missed my flight, the door was closing as I walked up). Landing delays into O'Hare. I was able to sleep through the overnight flight. Appreciated the very roomy seats on the BA flight.
Returned through Charlotte on an all AA flight. Tighter seats even though I miraculously had the row to myself (3 seats). It was a day flight, felt incredibly long and again, delays would have missed my connection had it also not been delayed.
I would MUCH rather go through Boston, Montreal where it is closer to Europe. However, I would take LH to avoid the connection issues.
Returned through Charlotte on an all AA flight. Tighter seats even though I miraculously had the row to myself (3 seats). It was a day flight, felt incredibly long and again, delays would have missed my connection had it also not been delayed.
I would MUCH rather go through Boston, Montreal where it is closer to Europe. However, I would take LH to avoid the connection issues.
AA feeders through ORD and CLT would capture many. Even though it's longer time-wise via LH, I'd bet there's tons of flights between Frankfort and London. You could complete the trip even with delays on outbound STL flight. Not the case with US connections. Coming home, Chicago makes all the sense.STLCityMike wrote: ↑Nov 30, 2024I flew American / BA out through Chicago (nearly missed my flight, the door was closing as I walked up). Landing delays into O'Hare. I was able to sleep through the overnight flight. Appreciated the very roomy seats on the BA flight.
Returned through Charlotte on an all AA flight. Tighter seats even though I miraculously had the row to myself (3 seats). It was a day flight, felt incredibly long and again, delays would have missed my connection had it also not been delayed.
I would MUCH rather go through Boston, Montreal where it is closer to Europe. However, I would take LH to avoid the connection issues.
St. Louis Post Dispatch
December 2, 2024
(Behind paywall but on front page top of printed morning edition)
Lufthansa wants to add more St. Louis-to-Frankfurt flights. But it needs more planes.
I get the printed edition.
Top notes from article.
1) Lufthansa says their flights are so successful they want 5 day R/T service added by early 2025.
2) LH said if they had their new aircraft orders delivered already, they would have expanded already.
3) STL to FRA has exceeded expectations and are so full they need more capacity to STL. They do not want to stay with just 3 R/T flights.
4) LH received less that 5 million (the original incentives offered) because it was based on 5 days a week service and the airline did not have enough planes to expand. The incentives ran out earlier this year, but LH said that the STL FRA flights are some of the highest capacity to/from USA and "must" add more flights to keep up with the customer demand to/from STL and EU.
5) The airline plans to have 5 new Boeing 767's in June 2025 and eventially allocate those on the 5 day service. The capacity is similar to the a330-300's, however, are more fuel efficient. The airline has had to use the a340 on the STL route in some cases to accommodate over booking and larger capacity.
6) The article spends a lot of time on the subject of Boeing and Airbus waiting on suppliers and supply chain delays (coming off of the pandemic). The supply chain is also expected to slow down and cost more with POTUS elect Trump tariffs. Boeing and Airbus, the suppliers and airlines are worried the tariffs will slow delivery even more.
7) LH is here to stay and more service will be on the way.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/bus ... d6046.html
December 2, 2024
(Behind paywall but on front page top of printed morning edition)
Lufthansa wants to add more St. Louis-to-Frankfurt flights. But it needs more planes.
I get the printed edition.
Top notes from article.
1) Lufthansa says their flights are so successful they want 5 day R/T service added by early 2025.
2) LH said if they had their new aircraft orders delivered already, they would have expanded already.
3) STL to FRA has exceeded expectations and are so full they need more capacity to STL. They do not want to stay with just 3 R/T flights.
4) LH received less that 5 million (the original incentives offered) because it was based on 5 days a week service and the airline did not have enough planes to expand. The incentives ran out earlier this year, but LH said that the STL FRA flights are some of the highest capacity to/from USA and "must" add more flights to keep up with the customer demand to/from STL and EU.
5) The airline plans to have 5 new Boeing 767's in June 2025 and eventially allocate those on the 5 day service. The capacity is similar to the a330-300's, however, are more fuel efficient. The airline has had to use the a340 on the STL route in some cases to accommodate over booking and larger capacity.
6) The article spends a lot of time on the subject of Boeing and Airbus waiting on suppliers and supply chain delays (coming off of the pandemic). The supply chain is also expected to slow down and cost more with POTUS elect Trump tariffs. Boeing and Airbus, the suppliers and airlines are worried the tariffs will slow delivery even more.
7) LH is here to stay and more service will be on the way.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/bus ... d6046.html
^ Thanks for sharing. Just one correction, LH is waiting on 787s, not 767s.
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Would be nice if LH would nudge its Star Aliiance partner to invest more here to support the proven-successful route.