urbanSTL

Yeah SFO! Really surprised they were able to add it with the runway project out there delaying so many flights. Glad it’s back


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Avelo starting New Haven, CT twice a week June 13.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Mar 20, 2024

Avelo starting New Haven, CT twice a week June 13.

Service from St. Louis?

^ Looks that way:

https://patch.com/connecticut/newhaven/ ... en-airport

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑

Mar 20, 2024

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Mar 20, 2024

Avelo starting New Haven, CT twice a week June 13.

Service from St. Louis?

Correct. 

jshank83 wrote:Updated my nonstop destination chart. 
Not sure how it will look on here but here it is. 

78 nonstop destinations total between both airports. 
74 for STL
11 for midamerica

62 Southwest
11 American
11 Allegiant
8 Frontier
5 United
5 Delta
4 Southern
3 Spirit
2 Air Canada
1 Sun Country
1 Alaska
1 Lufthansa

Anyone know when SW direct flights to/from SLC are? I’d think it would be winter through spring break.

Hadn’t been into Terminal 1 in a bit. We had to fly Delta back from SLC. Let’s just say a new terminal/overhaul can’t come soon enough. Our airport was looking really rough yesterday, especially compared to SLC.


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dbehrens011 wrote: ↑

Mar 25, 2024

jshank83 wrote:Updated my nonstop destination chart. 
Not sure how it will look on here but here it is. 

78 nonstop destinations total between both airports. 
74 for STL
11 for midamerica

62 Southwest
11 American
11 Allegiant
8 Frontier
5 United
5 Delta
4 Southern
3 Spirit
2 Air Canada
1 Sun Country
1 Alaska
1 Lufthansa

Anyone know when SW direct flights to/from SLC are? I’d think it would be winter through spring break.

Hadn’t been into Terminal 1 in a bit. We had to fly Delta back from SLC. Let’s just say a new terminal/overhaul can’t come soon enough. Our airport was looking really rough yesterday, especially compared to SLC.


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I was on a Delta leg from STL to SLC two weeks ago.  Keep in mind that SLC has a brand new airport.  Without ourselves having a brand new airport, it will always pale in comparison.  New airports have much wider terminals and much higher ceilings making them less cramped and providing more space for services.  I personally don't feel that Lambert looks "rough", but definitely outdated.  I think the airport did a pretty standup job making it as bright and clean as they could given the narrow terminals and low ceiling constraints they have to work with.  

I stand by statement and look forward to an improved terminal and airport overall. T1 is certainly not pleasant compared to the majority of airports I’ve flown through in recent years. I only fly ~10x a year, but I’d rank it at/near the bottom. The user experience is all around pretty rough - shuttered restaurant/businesses (they were shut down at 5:30pm), cracked floor tiles, crowded pick up line/area, exiting through a very narrow ramp to get picked up, 25+ deep for bathroom (3-4 urinals, 2-4 stalls) in Terminal 1.

Terminal 2 is a much better user experience, thankfully. This led to why I posted my question originally about seasonal non-stop from SWA from STL-SLC since I rather do SWA vs Delta (T1). I am curious when it is, if not during winter-spring break to avoid T1.


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dbehrens011 wrote: ↑

Mar 25, 2024

jshank83 wrote:Updated my nonstop destination chart. 
Not sure how it will look on here but here it is. 

78 nonstop destinations total between both airports. 
74 for STL
11 for midamerica

62 Southwest
11 American
11 Allegiant
8 Frontier
5 United
5 Delta
4 Southern
3 Spirit
2 Air Canada
1 Sun Country
1 Alaska
1 Lufthansa

Anyone know when SW direct flights to/from SLC are? I’d think it would be winter through spring break.

Hadn’t been into Terminal 1 in a bit. We had to fly Delta back from SLC. Let’s just say a new terminal/overhaul can’t come soon enough. Our airport was looking really rough yesterday, especially compared to SLC.


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Currently it’s only scheduled on Saturdays in June and July. It’s been sporadic lately

I can't wait to see earth moving outside with windows and fancy renderings posted around the terminals. Our mediocre feeling airport will feel much more excusable with a much improved replacement on the way.

Also, what are the chances we keep an AA Admiral's Club in the new build?

I think some sort of shared lounge would more practical than an airline specific one

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Mar 26, 2024

Imagine low probability for the admirals club.  

I think AA might be 3rd in passengers at Lambert of the majors.  SWA and Delta ahead and thought AA and United kinda jockey for the basement these days. 

Id have to disagree. AA is a clear 2nd place and continues to (modestly) maintain and invest in stl. AA still flies internationally and also has longer flights like LAX and the AS SEA. No reason for the to give up the club unless they want to loose their business to the competition

StlO7 wrote: ↑

Mar 26, 2024

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Mar 26, 2024

Imagine low probability for the admirals club.  

I think AA might be 3rd in passengers at Lambert of the majors.  SWA and Delta ahead and thought AA and United kinda jockey for the basement these days. 

Id have to disagree. AA is a clear 2nd place and continues to (modestly) maintain and invest in stl. AA still flies internationally and also has longer flights like LAX and the AS SEA. No reason for the to give up the club unless they want to loose their business to the competition

This is correct AA is still 2nd by a fair amount. I would expect a club. We also could have a AA partner flying to Europe by the time it opens. 

FY2023 
AA 15.2% of traffic
Delta 10%

I travel a lot and as excited as I am for a new terminal I’m not loving the central security screening plan. I’ve never seen it work effectively. Austin had to expand and re-open a little end tsa checkpoint, Denver is a total mess, SFO tried to centralize terminal 3 when they expanded it and had to add Pre to a little end checkpoint to handle overflow and you still have to run around to the international terminal once and a while. Guessing some of you frequent travelers have some examples of where it works but I haven’t experienced any.


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tztag wrote: ↑

Mar 29, 2024

I travel a lot and as excited as I am for a new terminal I’m not loving the central security screening plan.  I’ve never seen it work effectively.  Austin had to expand and re-open a little end tsa checkpoint, Denver is a total mess, SFO tried to centralize terminal 3 when they expanded it and had to add Pre to a little end checkpoint to handle overflow and you still have to run around to the international terminal once and a while.  Guessing some of you frequent travelers have some examples of where it works but I haven’t experienced any.  


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Oslo was a top, top experience. Very hi-tech, orderly, gorgeous terminal. Would be amazing to have anything like that. 

tztag wrote: ↑

Mar 29, 2024

I travel a lot and as excited as I am for a new terminal I’m not loving the central security screening plan.  I’ve never seen it work effectively.  Austin had to expand and re-open a little end tsa checkpoint, Denver is a total mess, SFO tried to centralize terminal 3 when they expanded it and had to add Pre to a little end checkpoint to handle overflow and you still have to run around to the international terminal once and a while.  Guessing some of you frequent travelers have some examples of where it works but I haven’t experienced any.  


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My travel experience is weird, since most of the airports where I've had to clear the primary security checkpoint are overseas and not in the U.S. (Usually I just connect here. I haven't taken many truly domestic flights.) So I'm not 100% sure my observations are the best, since the security protocols aren't quite the same overseas. They're . . . mostly pretty similar, really? But not identical.

That said, I'd say Seoul Incheon, Shanghai Pudong, and Narita all qualify. Seoul and Shanghai have multiple terminals, so there are multiple checkpoints, but only one to each, and the terminals are enormous, so I'd guess each checkpoint passes more passengers daily than all of Lambert's do together. The checkpoints are huge, with lots of lanes. I won't say there's never a line backing up, as I've not been through any of them all that often. But I expect any busy airport backs up at least occasionally, and that there will always be some running around. (I recall a connection after a long layover in Shanghai where we probably walked about three miles back and forth due to repeated gate changes. But that wasn't due to security, just because the airline couldn't decide if they'd have a gate or if they'd need to use a remote stand. The gate they wanted to use was at the end of the nearly mile long concourse. The ground gate for the bus was dead in the middle. I'm pretty sure we made the complete round trip at least three times.)

Anyway, I've certainly seen the security line here get nasty on occasion. Or at La Guardia, which had multiple checkpoints at the time. Maybe I'm not understanding, but I'm not too worried about that. I expect the real trick is matching capacity to demand and hoping you have enough people to staff it and that your predictions were right. And whether you spread that capacity between three checkpoints or concentrate it in one I assume it's still all a question of square footage, lanes, and personnel. But if it's all together you won't randomly find all your demand is at one checkpoint today, but all your capacity is at the other. Won't save you the walk when the airline changes the gate, though.

tztag wrote: ↑

Mar 29, 2024

I travel a lot and as excited as I am for a new terminal I’m not loving the central security screening plan.  I’ve never seen it work effectively.  Austin had to expand and re-open a little end tsa checkpoint, Denver is a total mess, SFO tried to centralize terminal 3 when they expanded it and had to add Pre to a little end checkpoint to handle overflow and you still have to run around to the international terminal once and a while.  Guessing some of you frequent travelers have some examples of where it works but I haven’t experienced any.  


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I think you have to keep in mind with Austin and Denver they have grown faster than those airports were designed for. So I think that plays into their issues with security. I have no clue how Denver is going to deal with it. Their train can't handle the rush and they didn't build walkways. So I am not sure I would base much off of those two airport. 

As far as I have seen KC hasn't had any issues. I think in most cases it isn't an issue places that I have been. 

On domestic front, I was in New Orleans over thanksgiving and they had the security line moving with a live jazz band. Was interesting to see behavioral economics in action.  For a very travel day, was pretty quick getting through a backed up line.

That city was long overdue for a new terminal. Really like the new one.

tztag wrote: ↑

Mar 29, 2024

I travel a lot and as excited as I am for a new terminal I’m not loving the central security screening plan.  I’ve never seen it work effectively.  Austin had to expand and re-open a little end tsa checkpoint, Denver is a total mess, SFO tried to centralize terminal 3 when they expanded it and had to add Pre to a little end checkpoint to handle overflow and you still have to run around to the international terminal once and a while.  Guessing some of you frequent travelers have some examples of where it works but I haven’t experienced any.  


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Fly quit a bit as well and would have to say that my experience today in KC was pretty good.   I really think it comes down to hub or non-hub, what is the pretty count and of course a lot of factors.   To me KC airport was built to expand and therefore the central security lane will work for years to come.  I don't see any reason why a rebuilt STL wouldn't approach things with a good design.

I think the one big miss for KC was still having the rental car bus ride.     

Prices on the STL to Frankfurt are insane this summer. June 21-July 7 $2,100. We paid like $1,100 Sept 2022.
Wonder what it will do to loads

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Apr 02, 2024

Prices on the STL to Frankfurt are insane this summer.   June 21-July 7 $2,100.  We paid like $1,100 Sept 2022.  
Wonder what it will do to loads

That's the most expensive couple of weeks, but yes, they are insanely high.  Business class around the same time is $7-10k, 2-3x normal.
But it cools off in late July; two week round trip economy fares for under $1,400.