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PostNov 28, 2008#701

Actually doing some research, you should have seen a lot more flights around those times.



http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KST ... ;sort=DESC (This link will change over the course of time, you might have to go back in time to see Wednesday night.)



By Comparison, Wednesday looks like it had about 5-6x the amount of flights as it did today.. which makes sense.



By another Comparison, The amount of flights from Wednesday night and Tuesday night... were about the exact same.

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PostNov 28, 2008#702

Left Orlando on Thanksgiving Night at 10:20 p.m. and the Orlando airport was EMPTY. We were the only two people on the little people mover train out to the concourse. The place was a ghost town - we said everyone was eatting Turkey except us. I am sure the economy is not helping.



some articles:



Airports almost empty day before Thanksgiving

San Francisco Chronicle

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 14D284.DTL



D/FW Airport reports less Thanksgiving traffic than usual

Dall Ft. Worth

http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/1062018.html



Everywhere:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=th ... y&aq=f&oq=

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PostDec 04, 2008#703

First step towards leveling the D concourse: sealing it off.



Shame; the only place to find a clean men's room in the main terminal is to wander really far into D.

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PostDec 04, 2008#704

Why does everyone want it sealed? I want it open! Hell, it connects with the E terminal...so WHY NOT try to recruit more Southwest planes? We have the space, let's try to up the ante with our airport becoming a Southwest hub?



Yes yes yes, I know Southwest doesn't really "do" hubs. But why not? It's the only reliable solution because American will just further and further cut all the flights. If they don't start doing this now, then pretty soon American will only have direct flights from St. Louis to Dallas, JFK, or Chicago....the places that they actually treat like hubs.

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PostDec 04, 2008#705

So much for that walking path they setup back in April in conjunction with American Heart Association.



http://www.flystl.com/flystl/media-news ... -16-08.pdf

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PostDec 04, 2008#706

Survivor147 wrote:Why does everyone want it sealed? I want it open! Hell, it connects with the E terminal...so WHY NOT try to recruit more Southwest planes?


Sealing off the area saves energy and leaving it open will not entice Southwest to move in. They know D is there, but the decision makers at Southwest likely wouldn't be "there" to see it anyway. There is at least one jetbridge falling down not to mention disgusting floors and other surfaces. Aside from energy, O&M on the moving walks, floors, seems too high to justify leaving it open for the very few people that stroll down D. Why not keep it shut until it's needed?

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PostDec 05, 2008#707

Concourse D - Knock it down! Knock it down! It has served its useful purpose for TWA once upon a time. Now it is a redundant eye sore that only costs money as rightly noted in the article. Why advertise that you were once a major hub. Knock it down and concentrated on improving what is getting used.

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PostDec 05, 2008#708

Dredger wrote:Concourse D - Knock it down! Knock it down! It has served its useful purpose for TWA once upon a time. Now it is a redundant eye sore that only costs money as rightly noted in the article. Why advertise that you were once a major hub. Knock it down and concentrated on improving what is getting used.
Maybe I should dust off my old airport plans, huh?

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PostDec 05, 2008#709

Mill204, I like your plan. But, I think I saved you a step. I believe Airtran is the only airline using a gate in Concourse B and Frontier is the only airline using a gate in Concouse D. Otherwise, all the other gates in Concourse B & D are not being is used. That is what I noticed on my last few flights out. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.



I believe you can easily accomondate Airtran and Frontier in Concourse A. If not, I don't think you will have to wait too long. I wouldn't be surprised if another gate in Concourse A becomes available when Northwest ops start merging into Delta (I see Memphis flights being dropped in the near future as a result of this merger). I believe Delta has already called for further reductions in its domestic flights.



In reality I don't think will see a new main terminal in the foreseeable future, even though I wish it would be the case. However, I really think it is imperative that they downsize the Main Terminal, physically seperate Main & East Terminals, and push forward with their current plans to upgrade the Main Terminal. If not that, will someone, anyone subisidize a European flight for the sake of Budweiser (Otherwise, I have no doubt that Inbev will start looking at Chicago or Atlanta as their NA hq in time)

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PostDec 08, 2008#710

how about we allow Lambert to be a NO TAX airport for international flights!? since we have ZERO international flights outside of the America's, what would be the loss? Tax free airport, sounds good to me. how could anyone oppose this idea.

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PostDec 08, 2008#711

Mill204 wrote:Maybe I should dust off my old airport plans, huh?


Actually, you should! With the new runway taken land, there are more possibilities than you originally planned.

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PostDec 10, 2008#712

I walked from E - B/C Admiral's club last time I was there, and also wondered why they keep it open. There was absolutely no reason for anyone to walk through there. A has plenty of empty gates, B has empty gates, and even the East Terminal has 3-4 empty gates. We could shut down D entirely, tear it down, and consolidate everything. I'd love to see A imploded...

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PostDec 10, 2008#713

^^ I'd love to see the traffic we had in 2000, but we all know that wont happen

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PostDec 10, 2008#714

I noticed that Concourse A gates 8, 10, & 12 are empty (waiting on my flight). I would think that Lambert would try to get Airtran over to Concourse A and close B also.



I would rather see a busy Concourse A & C rather then try to spread out the airlines. I think it would also be beneficial as a business traveler to get any TSA people away from the narrow entrance to Concourse B. Then the airport can have real discussion on what is viable for the Main Terminal concourses. I still prefer the demolition of D and a possible rebuild of B if future traffic warrants it (Wish list - state finds a way to subsidize AA for a direct European flight and the region rebuilds B to accomondate those flights for Boeing's Dreamliner).

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PostJan 11, 2009#715

i'm not an airline expert, and i don't know the whole story behind frontier, but it seems that from this article, that if they are going to survive, they need a new hub. the article mentions kansas city, but would that be too close to denver? would having incentives for this airline be worth it to fill up the rest of d? would that kill off what is left of aa? there was talk when southwest came back on the scene at denver that no city can handle three hubs(united, frontier and southwest), and one of them will have to go.

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PostJan 12, 2009#716

Prefer not to say it, but Frontier swapping United and Southwest to go against American Airlines and Southwest doesn't seem like a good trade off. I can see why Kansas City would be preferable on the idea of changing hubs since their would be a lot less competition from legacy airlines. They probably saw the incentives the state of Missouri was about to hand over to the airplane maker last summer



I imagine that United is doing in Denver what AA did in St. Lou, reducing capactity by cutting buck most from the hub that has the least number of or no international flight. The only place it doesn't make sense to cut back capacity is where you are still running profitable international flights. Denver could have worse problems. They could be Memphis for which I'm sure will get clobbered after NWA is fully integrated into Delta.

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PostJan 13, 2009#717

Heck...I always thought AA really wasn't that interested in STL anyway and that if somebody else came in, they would go to only having flights to ORD, DFW, MIA, and JFK!



Doesn't St. Louis have more population to draw upon for O&D than the KC Metro area? I could be wrong if you factor in KCK, you know!



Anyhoo, Frontier would be nice to have here with a larger presence, if they can stay in good financial health!

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PostJan 13, 2009#718

Agree on any increase presence from any airline. Only helps my business travel options as well as making boss happy abouy keeping fares reasonable.



I'm surprised the City didn't find a way to put in request for terminal upgrades or a new maintenance hanger for AA in their stimulus request. I thought the full use of the new runway required the eventual relocation of that hanger. Seems like a reasonable request in regards to the stimulus package. They mostly included replacement work on taxiways.

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PostJan 16, 2009#719

nice read:



Friday, January 16, 2009

The airport as emissary

St. Louis Business Journal - by Ripley Rasmus



By their very function, airports are the most import civic structure built for a metropolitan area. They are the place for first and last impressions of a community and of the economic region supporting it. That reality is particularly consequential in a highly competitive global marketplace where true to the old saw, ‘you never get a second chance to make a first impression.’



Hearkening back to the era of the great train stations (and St. Louis had one in Union Station) today’s great airports function at a higher level. They should engage as an emissary for a region. That requires vision cultivated in a collaborative effort across a far-flung region by stakeholders willing to look beyond their borders to advance regional economic opportunity. In November 2008, a great new airport opened in the Midwest. Sadly, it wasn’t in St. Louis.



From a St. Louis perspective, the irony of the $1.2 billion improvements to the Indianapolis International Airport is its symbolism as a gateway — a term ingrained our region’s past that struggles to find its identity for the future. The new 1.2 million-square-foot Colonel H. Weir Cook Terminal in Indianapolis defines the airport of the future as a gateway — one that combines the comfort and convenience of pre-9/11 air travel with post-9/11 security necessities.



One month after HOK was awarded the design of the new Indianapolis terminal, the world and air travel changed forever with the 9/11 terrorist attacks. It added long waits at security checkpoints which bred anxiety and a “rush to the gate” mentality. Battleship gray checkpoint machinery made already sterile airport environments even more so. Many airports, including Lambert-St. Louis International Airport, devolved into dreaded destinations.



But, if cities are to thrive, with hardship must come adaptation. The Cook terminal mitigates the rush by simplifying the progression to the gate, transforming the airport as a place to conduct one’s life at unhurried pace. It creates a destination point in the form of a piazza that is the threshold of the city inviting travelers to slow down and to connect with the Indianapolis and Indiana community. In addition to plenty of comfortable seating and meeting space, this “civic plaza,” topped by a 200-foot-diameter circular skylight, features:



• Five-story windows that visually engage the Indianapolis traveler by providing vistas of the surrounding landscape, including downtown Indianapolis.



• Storefronts for 50 retailers and restaurants.



• Space to showcase Indianapolis events and culture, including the Indy 500, significant conventions, seasonal attractions, even political gatherings.



Advanced technology combines with design simplicity to smoothly shepherd travelers to the piazza and ultimately their gate. Luggage is checked curbside. Passengers and airport employees/vendors are routed to separate security checkpoints with advanced screening tools that minimize the need to open carry-on luggage. Sight lines are clear; destination points well marked. Arriving hours before your flight is replaced by a chance to slow down. It creates time to admire artwork ornamenting the terminal or themes of Indianapolis. It facilitates a culture of Indianapolis hospitality.



The new terminal is America’s first “greenfield” airport since 9/11. Discharge from fuel and deicing are controlled using bio swales populated with plants that consume hydrocarbons. Detention ponds encourage growth of microorganisms that also consume airport discharge. Water leaves cleaner than it arrived. Meanwhile, filtered glass mitigates heat from solar gain while harvesting sunlight to reduce use of artificial lighting. It has a radiant heating and cooling system in the floor to help regulate temperature only in the space occupied by passengers.



read on

http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... rial4.html

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PostJan 20, 2009#720

they are finally remodeling the interior of the main terminal. I think this building could still be very cool IF the rehab is done correctly! get rid of all those outdated ticket counters, especially those on the East side so you can see the runways like architect intended! rebuilding each concouse, or at least completely strip it and remodel it. actually, our concourses aren't as bad as many other cities.

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PostJan 20, 2009#721

The main terminal is an internationally known architectural landmark. It was the model that a whole generation of airport design followed. Truly a mid-century masterpiece. It deserves the same sensitive rehabbing as would the Wainwright Building.

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PostJan 21, 2009#722

Dredger wrote:I'm surprised the City didn't find a way to put in request for terminal upgrades or a new maintenance hanger for AA in their stimulus request. I thought the full use of the new runway required the eventual relocation of that hanger. Seems like a reasonable request in regards to the stimulus package. They mostly included replacement work on taxiways.


Is it that big a problem right now that planes can't land from the east on a runway that sees little use anyway?



I'd much rather see any money put into a teardown and rebuild of the concourses. Seeing newly built facilities like the new terminals at Detroit (flickr link) and DFW (flickr link 1 | link 2) are enough to show that Lambert needs far more than a coat of paint.

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PostJan 21, 2009#723

Just limits its full potential during bad weather. Which at this point is a mute point considering the number of landings/takeoffs that happen versus what available capacity is.



In my mind, to support a new facility by replacing an old one might be a benefit for the long run. Especially if you can find federal monies to help do it. I'm sure AA evaluates its maintenance program periodically to determine where to cut costs. I would imagine that their St. Louis maintenance facility becomes tougher to justify when cutting back on capacity.

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PostJan 22, 2009#724

[quote="ben1040I'd much rather see any money put into a teardown and rebuild of the concourses. Seeing newly built facilities like the new terminals at Detroit (flickr link) and DFW (flickr link 1 | link 2) are enough to show that Lambert needs far more than a coat of paint.[/quote]



AMEN! That's exactly what I was thinking. It's annoying seeing these huge airports with tall ceilings, then seeing the claustrophobia of Lambert.

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PostJan 22, 2009#725

If you guys want to tear down the East Terminal, that's fine with me. But hands off the Main Terminal.



See my above post.

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