Problem is your can’t have Southwest in their own concourse AND have a international arrivals that serves connections all airlines. 18-5 doesn’t allow that. Someone will be cut off from customs just like everyone in T1 is now.matguy70 wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2022after looking at those plans - I will have to agree as well.
My worries of the single long linear terminal is making it longer and longer - then we will need a APM in my opinion. I truly believe this concept leaves out growth planning. If STL plans to keep Southwest growth and a major connection hub, I think we need to centrally locate SWA in their own "operational concourse" as they have now (re: BNA new exclusive SWA concourse, DEN Southwest Concourse). SWA continues to want to grow STL's connection hub and it shows that SWA future (especially with their new CEO) is basing itself more as a traditional connection (hub) airline. I think that their growth at DEN may slow down over the next 10 years (Re; Frontier/Spirit combines hub there and limited capacity/wait times). I see the airline watching STL and BNA as their two central growth hubs and their ability to grow in both.
I also believe that if STL wants to continue to grow it's international presence, then we need to have a specific international(s) arrival/departure area that can serve all airlines more directly for connections.
Just my 2 cents.
I really prefer the "8B" concept and the "18-5" concepts myself. Both offer much better growth options for single airlines and connection ease than a "2 mile" long terminal.
Booked a trip to Las Vegas next week on American and on my outbound flight, I get to connect in Austin. I've travelled there several times for business, but it will be interesting to use it as a connecting airport.
I would assume that the logical outcome is Southwest ends up taking the east end of the new linear concourse and therefore continue to use the north/older East West Runway, the Legacy & budget airlines utilize the west end of the new linear concourse and therefore flights favor the south/newer East West runway, and with a single security/immigration/customs access point you would have international gates in the middlejshank83 wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2022I agree with this. Whatever happens Southwest is going to be a big part of the final plan. So it will turn out however they want it to.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2022I'm not worried. SW is very much involved in this process...if they weren't at least somewhat on board with this...we probably wouldn't have seen this proposed.
The only way is it flipping is Southwest really wants more newer gates sooner so you move Southwest into the newest section of the linear concourse first whether it be east end and or west end.
It will certainly be interesting to see how it plays out as Jshank83 and everyone else notes, Southwest is going to have a big part of the final outcome. Bur between Houston Hobby to Chicago Midway (got to see that fold out when I lived in Chicago area years ago and consistently flew out of Midway for business) to Dallas Love they have worked through a couple of major terminal teardowns and complete rebuilds with an outcome of a stronger system.
Would Southwest be against any plan as they like the current setup? Or would they be against certain plans?
Have they been a public roadblock at any other airport/new terminal plan?
Have they been a public roadblock at any other airport/new terminal plan?
Define like the current setup? As in split rebuilt terminals or the actual current setup?dweebe wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2022Would Southwest be against any plan as they like the current setup? Or would they be against certain plans?
Have they been a public roadblock at any other airport/new terminal plan?
Southwest has said recently they are outgrowing the current setup and the length between gates on each end is starting to become an issue. So I think they have to be for a new setup of some sort.
When it comes to other airports. They originally were against KC redoing their terminal but then changed their mind.
I’m not aware of any projects they pushed against elsewhere.
Looks as if Air Canada will be back in May.
They updated their schedule and we have 1 daily flight starting May 7th.
A 2nd daily is added in June.
Flown on CRJ-200
They updated their schedule and we have 1 daily flight starting May 7th.
A 2nd daily is added in June.
Flown on CRJ-200
Just checked the inaugural Lufthansa flight from STL. Still seats available in all classes.
Seats also available on the first flight (coming in the same day) from Frankfurt, although business must be nearly sold out because the seat costs nearly $6k (one way). Less than half that to fly out from STL.
Seats also available on the first flight (coming in the same day) from Frankfurt, although business must be nearly sold out because the seat costs nearly $6k (one way). Less than half that to fly out from STL.
I actually did that not too long ago myself on a work trip to Albuquerque. I don't know if American is planning to commit using Austin as a stopover from STL for too much longer, my understanding was that it was a temporary offering owing to the expansion of services in Austin to compete with Southwest. Regardless, it was decently busy when I had my connection there and plenty of things to do while you're waiting for your next flight!gregl wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2022Booked a trip to Las Vegas next week on American and on my outbound flight, I get to connect in Austin. I've travelled there several times for business, but it will be interesting to use it as a connecting airport.
I might be getting a bit greedy in the "international flights" cookie jar now that we've gotten one major cookie out in Lufthansa, but I was thinking about potentially looking southward for some new international flight options. Currently we have options currently to fly to some Caribbean destinations and vacation cities in Mexico thanks to Southwest, American and Frontier/Spirit, but what are the odds of landing an actual Latin American carrier to fly here? (think AeroMexico or Volaris) I'm sure there's a ton of feasibility and market studies that would need to take place here but we could be tapping into an enticing market here especially as we start to ramp up cargo flights from that region. Possibly more geared towards business/corporate travel but we could see some leisure/vacation travelers going to other travel destinations in Central/South America from here which would be available through some of these low-cost or flag carriers.
My other thought was facing north towards Canada and expanding into some of the other major cities there besides Toronto (like Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, etc). I think this would be a tougher sell since we can't even have mainline aircraft from Air Canada on the lone daily Toronto flight we have, but maybe (juuuuustttt maybe) there may be a market for other Canadian destinations. We have a love for hockey here as do our Canadian friends up north which would help capture a potentially decent amount of travelers from both sides who travel with their respective teams. In addition, I'm sure it will be welcome news for the business community here and up in Canada to have flights from some of these major cities to STL instead of connecting in one end of the US. Plus (and this would be a big sell), the cities I mentioned above all currently have US border pre-clearance, thus saving time and money of having to deal with immigration checks and customs issues. I'm sure the current restrictions for travel into Canada would hinder or turn off travelers wanting to go to Canada, but if things start to improve all around, worth a look. Just my two cents since I'm still giddy about Lufthansa
My other thought was facing north towards Canada and expanding into some of the other major cities there besides Toronto (like Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, etc). I think this would be a tougher sell since we can't even have mainline aircraft from Air Canada on the lone daily Toronto flight we have, but maybe (juuuuustttt maybe) there may be a market for other Canadian destinations. We have a love for hockey here as do our Canadian friends up north which would help capture a potentially decent amount of travelers from both sides who travel with their respective teams. In addition, I'm sure it will be welcome news for the business community here and up in Canada to have flights from some of these major cities to STL instead of connecting in one end of the US. Plus (and this would be a big sell), the cities I mentioned above all currently have US border pre-clearance, thus saving time and money of having to deal with immigration checks and customs issues. I'm sure the current restrictions for travel into Canada would hinder or turn off travelers wanting to go to Canada, but if things start to improve all around, worth a look. Just my two cents since I'm still giddy about Lufthansa
I would like to see Westjet come in from Canada with a flight to Montreal or Calgary.
I saw a Volaris come in yesterday from Mexico. A charter I assume.
I would think that a Hawaii flight would be a good addition with Hawaiaan Air or other.
I saw a Volaris come in yesterday from Mexico. A charter I assume.
I would think that a Hawaii flight would be a good addition with Hawaiaan Air or other.
Would love to see Hawaii! (STL to Honolulu: 4,127 mi. STL to London: 4,198 mi)
Looking south, a flight to Panama City (PTY) would open up all of Latin and South America. It's about 2500 mi., a 737 could reach that.
Looking south, a flight to Panama City (PTY) would open up all of Latin and South America. It's about 2500 mi., a 737 could reach that.
Assuming we are ruling out the Mexican carriers currently running the Apple flights on the weekends.
I think VivaAerobus probably is the most likely just because they will probably start running flights to midamerica next year due to their agreement with Allegiant.
If we are talking STL and not midamerica then volaris probably
I think VivaAerobus probably is the most likely just because they will probably start running flights to midamerica next year due to their agreement with Allegiant.
If we are talking STL and not midamerica then volaris probably
I think I saw Philadelphia and KC are the largest Hawaii travel cities without direct service.shadrach wrote:Would love to see Hawaii! (STL to Honolulu: 4,127 mi. STL to London: 4,198 mi)
Looking south, a flight to Panama City (PTY) would open up all of Latin and South America. It's about 2500 mi., a 737 could reach that.
PTY is interesting. How many more destinations does PTY open up compared to MIA?shadrach wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022Would love to see Hawaii! (STL to Honolulu: 4,127 mi. STL to London: 4,198 mi)
Looking south, a flight to Panama City (PTY) would open up all of Latin and South America. It's about 2500 mi., a 737 could reach that.
https://thepointsguy.com/guide/how-to-fly-hawaii/
How to get to Hawaii: Fly nonstop from 27 mainland U.S. cities
Borrowing from his list, west of the Rockies:
How to get to Hawaii: Fly nonstop from 27 mainland U.S. cities
Borrowing from his list, west of the Rockies:
- Las Vegas (LAS): Hawaiian
- Long Beach (LGB): Hawaiian and Southwest (launched March 11)
- Los Angeles (LAX): American, Alaska, Delta, Hawaiian, Sun Country and United
- Oakland (OAK): Alaska, Hawaiian and Southwest
- Ontario (ONT): Hawaiian (starting March 16)
- Phoenix (PHX): American and Hawaiian
- Portland (PDX): Alaska and Hawaiian
- Sacramento (SMF): Hawaiian and Southwest
- Salt Lake City (SLC): Delta
- San Diego (SAN): Alaska, Hawaiian and Southwest
- San Jose (SJC): Alaska, Hawaiian and Southwest
- San Francisco (SFO): Alaska, Hawaiian, Sun Country and United
- Santa Ana (SNA): United (starting May 6)
- Seattle (SEA): Alaska, Delta and Hawaiian
- Atlanta (ATL): Delta
- Austin (AUS): Hawaiian (starting April 21)
- Boston (BOS): Hawaiian
- Charlotte (CLT): American
- Chicago (ORD): American and United
- Dallas (DFW): American
- Denver (DEN): United
- Houston (IAH): United
- Minneapolis (MSP): Delta
- New York (EWR): United
- New York (JFK): Hawaiian
- Orlando (MCO): Hawaiian (launched March 11)
- Washington (IAD): United
- 1,610
MSP is absolutely a hub for Delta, so just Austin as the outlier.dweebe wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022https://thepointsguy.com/guide/how-to-fly-hawaii/
How to get to Hawaii: Fly nonstop from 27 mainland U.S. cities
Borrowing from his list, west of the Rockies:East of the Rockies:
- Las Vegas (LAS): Hawaiian
- Long Beach (LGB): Hawaiian and Southwest (launched March 11)
- Los Angeles (LAX): American, Alaska, Delta, Hawaiian, Sun Country and United
- Oakland (OAK): Alaska, Hawaiian and Southwest
- Ontario (ONT): Hawaiian (starting March 16)
- Phoenix (PHX): American and Hawaiian
- Portland (PDX): Alaska and Hawaiian
- Sacramento (SMF): Hawaiian and Southwest
- Salt Lake City (SLC): Delta
- San Diego (SAN): Alaska, Hawaiian and Southwest
- San Jose (SJC): Alaska, Hawaiian and Southwest
- San Francisco (SFO): Alaska, Hawaiian, Sun Country and United
- Santa Ana (SNA): United (starting May 6)
- Seattle (SEA): Alaska, Delta and Hawaiian
Most of those east of the Rockies are big cities or hubs. The Austin and MSP are the only outliers.
- Atlanta (ATL): Delta
- Austin (AUS): Hawaiian (starting April 21)
- Boston (BOS): Hawaiian
- Charlotte (CLT): American
- Chicago (ORD): American and United
- Dallas (DFW): American
- Denver (DEN): United
- Houston (IAH): United
- Minneapolis (MSP): Delta
- New York (EWR): United
- New York (JFK): Hawaiian
- Orlando (MCO): Hawaiian (launched March 11)
- Washington (IAD): United
Down from what it used to be, but you're right.Bart Harley Jarvis wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022MSP is absolutely a hub for Delta, so just Austin as the outlier.dweebe wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022https://thepointsguy.com/guide/how-to-fly-hawaii/
How to get to Hawaii: Fly nonstop from 27 mainland U.S. cities
Borrowing from his list, west of the Rockies:East of the Rockies:
- Las Vegas (LAS): Hawaiian
- Long Beach (LGB): Hawaiian and Southwest (launched March 11)
- Los Angeles (LAX): American, Alaska, Delta, Hawaiian, Sun Country and United
- Oakland (OAK): Alaska, Hawaiian and Southwest
- Ontario (ONT): Hawaiian (starting March 16)
- Phoenix (PHX): American and Hawaiian
- Portland (PDX): Alaska and Hawaiian
- Sacramento (SMF): Hawaiian and Southwest
- Salt Lake City (SLC): Delta
- San Diego (SAN): Alaska, Hawaiian and Southwest
- San Jose (SJC): Alaska, Hawaiian and Southwest
- San Francisco (SFO): Alaska, Hawaiian, Sun Country and United
- Santa Ana (SNA): United (starting May 6)
- Seattle (SEA): Alaska, Delta and Hawaiian
Most of those east of the Rockies are big cities or hubs. The Austin and MSP are the only outliers.
- Atlanta (ATL): Delta
- Austin (AUS): Hawaiian (starting April 21)
- Boston (BOS): Hawaiian
- Charlotte (CLT): American
- Chicago (ORD): American and United
- Dallas (DFW): American
- Denver (DEN): United
- Houston (IAH): United
- Minneapolis (MSP): Delta
- New York (EWR): United
- New York (JFK): Hawaiian
- Orlando (MCO): Hawaiian (launched March 11)
- Washington (IAD): United
In the end STL>HON would be an outlier. It's just a lot easier to send us through ORD, DFW or other West Coast options.
Your stats mean nothing to me!
This is emotional.
My grandma was 100% Hawaiian, my dad 50, me a quarter (26% to 23 and me). When I was in 7th grade we flew TWA nonstop from Lambert to Honolulu on a 747 to visit family. That was 1978.
How far we have fallen….
This is emotional.
My grandma was 100% Hawaiian, my dad 50, me a quarter (26% to 23 and me). When I was in 7th grade we flew TWA nonstop from Lambert to Honolulu on a 747 to visit family. That was 1978.
How far we have fallen….
A321XLR will be a game changer of a plane. Hawaiian has some on order. It can reach us. Once they start to get delivered then I think it ups the chances.
Never mind....Forgot about Miami being the Central/South American gateway. Basically the same. Actually, Miami is better.RuskiSTL wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022PTY is interesting. How many more destinations does PTY open up compared to MIA?shadrach wrote: ↑Feb 23, 2022Would love to see Hawaii! (STL to Honolulu: 4,127 mi. STL to London: 4,198 mi)
Looking south, a flight to Panama City (PTY) would open up all of Latin and South America. It's about 2500 mi., a 737 could reach that.
United pushed the restart of SFO back to at least September here.
I was hoping they would try to use being the only domestic airline with an alliance member flying to Europe to their advantage and try to peel off some business/flyer allegiance. Apparently they went the opposite way. Only one mainline a day total for summer (to Houston), only one fly a day to DC. Might even be less flying than last summer. A little disappointing.
I was hoping they would try to use being the only domestic airline with an alliance member flying to Europe to their advantage and try to peel off some business/flyer allegiance. Apparently they went the opposite way. Only one mainline a day total for summer (to Houston), only one fly a day to DC. Might even be less flying than last summer. A little disappointing.
Nope... Business is booked to 8 out of 42 seats.NHampton wrote: ↑Feb 22, 2022Just checked the inaugural Lufthansa flight from STL. Still seats available in all classes.
Seats also available on the first flight (coming in the same day) from Frankfurt, although business must be nearly sold out because the seat costs nearly $6k (one way). Less than half that to fly out from STL.
Loads in Premium Economy (2 of 28) and Economy (16 of 185) look pretty miserable.
- 2,929
STL Biz Journal: Air Canada to restart service at St. Louis' Lambert airport
Daily Non-Stops to Toronto restarting May 7th.
Afternoon turnaround flights on a Bombardier CRJ200.
By June, Air Canada will add a second daily Toronto flight.
Daily Non-Stops to Toronto restarting May 7th.
Afternoon turnaround flights on a Bombardier CRJ200.
By June, Air Canada will add a second daily Toronto flight.