Just flew into Lambert tonight and had exactly the SAME experience. Odd. but good. The question is, will AA take on some more gates in D Concourse eventually (again) so their on-time schedule is just that. We only waited for 8-10 minutes - but we waited. Our pilot didn't react the same way - he just said that we were holding for a gate in concourse C - We also were #6 on take-off the other day - a 20 minute delay. But Lambert is getting very very busy again if you ask me. Good to see.
Must be the time of the day. There are often gate changes on Eagle flights, but haven't waited for a gate in any of my recent flights, though you sometimes do see planes in the "penalty box" in the afternoon/evening when there is storm activity and the ramp has been closed.
As far as very busy, AA has something in the neighborhood of 300 flights a day, 2/3 of them Eagle. At its height, believe that TW had around 800 daily flights.
As far as very busy, AA has something in the neighborhood of 300 flights a day, 2/3 of them Eagle. At its height, believe that TW had around 800 daily flights.
matguy70 wrote:Just flew into Lambert tonight and had exactly the SAME experience. Odd. but good. The question is, will AA take on some more gates in D Concourse eventually (again) so their on-time schedule is just that. We only waited for 8-10 minutes - but we waited. Our pilot didn't react the same way - he just said that we were holding for a gate in concourse C - We also were #6 on take-off the other day - a 20 minute delay. But Lambert is getting very very busy again if you ask me. Good to see.
As many of you know, the mainline service (Md 80s and 757s primarily) operate on the even C gates, with regional jets (and one mainline) gates on the odd side. I think seeing AA expand to the D concourse is highly unlikely with F9 (Frontier already leasing two gates. I could see them leasing one or two more C gates and possibly converting several regional jet gates.
While it is good to see the gates get used, the fact of the matter is on 9/5/07, we'll go down from 58 mainline to 54 mainline. (They're eliminating one flight to each of the following BOS, MCO, SAT, and LAX). Regional jet service has reamined constant for the most part. Lambert would love to work with them and lease an additional gate. If you go to the airport website, you can see their minutes and you'll see that they added a gate not too long ago.
From my sources at AA, they're saying corporate is frustrated at Lambert for allowing FL (AirTran) to enter the market here and are therefore less likely to add mainline service. Although they aren't adding service, we are having more and more connecting pax, which is best for STL as they bring airport fees and revenue at airport shops and restaurants.
Load factors on AA's flights here appears to continually increase on most routes, however dropping the four mainlines shouldn't be a worry as summer is winding down, and therefore y-classn pax drop considerably.
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b777stl wrote:
From my sources at AA, they're saying corporate is frustrated at Lambert for allowing FL (AirTran) to enter the market here and are therefore less likely to add mainline service. Although they aren't adding service, we are having more and more connecting pax, which is best for STL as they bring airport fees and revenue at airport shops and restaurants.
Load factors on AA's flights here appears to continually increase on most routes, however dropping the four mainlines shouldn't be a worry as summer is winding down, and therefore y-classn pax drop considerably.
Why would AA be frustrated at Lambert for allowing AirTran to enter the market? Considering AA continues to screw STL over by making us fly to ORD and DFW to connect to other flights, I don't see why adding competition and a few new destinations will affect them. I like how AirTran is adding STL-SRQ this November! Yet, AA still continues to hose us with crappy additional flights to destinations such as SPI (who even flies there?) and OKC?
Why not give us flights to YYZ, SJC, BUF, ONT, YVR, CDG, and LGW instead of making us fly to ORD and DFW for these destinations?
10-intuition wrote:
Why would AA be frustrated at Lambert for allowing AirTran to enter the market? Considering AA continues to screw STL over by making us fly to ORD and DFW to connect to other flights, I don't see why adding competition and a few new destinations will affect them. I like how AirTran is adding STL-SRQ this November! Yet, AA still continues to hose us with crappy additional flights to destinations such as SPI (who even flies there?) and OKC?
Why not give us flights to YYZ, SJC, BUF, ONT, YVR, CDG, and LGW instead of making us fly to ORD and DFW for these destinations?
You raise a very good point. AA is frustrated that FL is in the market here, because of the added competition. For example, their AA connection carriers operate STL-ATL, and match FL's fares (they aren't forced to, but they sure do). They would like to be able to call the shots here and operate the minimum number of flights. It is well known that their profits on routes such as LGA, BOS, DCA, and SFO are among their most profitable here.
The bottom line: AA doesn't want LCC's to dominate the market here!!!
As for adding service to the cities above, give it time. Circumstances continue to get worse at ORD with UA. AA has removed service from ORD to many cities (such as IAD, PDX to name a few). With Lambert's incentive program, their may be hope but we'll have to wait and see.
Another example to consider: with the Wright & Shelby Amendment with travel to Dallas-Love field. Back in 2005, they defended the Dallas/Ft Worth side of the argument, not for Love Field and STL.
Secondly, if AA really wanted to be good to the community they wouldn't have given away TW's naming rights to Edward Jones Dome. Nor would they have closed their call center here when it was among the most efficient in the network.
They will add flights that are profitable. When they loose money on a route, they reduce capacity or even remove the flight.
well what's better, appeasing AA who has cut flights substantially or opening up Lambert to all carriers? Honestly, would it be better to have a "junior hub" or allow all low cost carriers to enter the market. It would seem that the more competition, the better it would be for travelers.
Does the city know what it's doing in running this airport? Would it be better off if it was run REGIONALLY rather than by the city alone? I certainly think it couldn't be any worse. Why does the city with only 13% of the region's population control such an integral asset? With the caliber of person at city hall, I question the status quo.
Does the city know what it's doing in running this airport? Would it be better off if it was run REGIONALLY rather than by the city alone? I certainly think it couldn't be any worse. Why does the city with only 13% of the region's population control such an integral asset? With the caliber of person at city hall, I question the status quo.
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Some anecdotal information. I sat inbetween two Baltimore-based flight attendants on a St. Louis-Baltimore SWA flight recently. I asked them how flight traffic has been iand out of STL from Balt lately and if it's picked-up. Both are based in Balt so they fly the routes regularly. One said every flight theyve flown this summer has been full, and the other said all except "2 or 3" have been full. Both said theyve seen a noticable increase in traffic over-and-above the heavy summer travel season.
I really don't understand how continuing to pay for naming rights to the stadium helps out the community in any fashion. I could care less about the name... Perhaps you can elaborate.b777stl wrote:Secondly, if AA really wanted to be good to the community they wouldn't have given away TW's naming rights to Edward Jones Dome. Nor would they have closed their call center here when it was among the most efficient in the network.
Well I don't know the benefit of it, but the Trans World Dome did sound pretty cool.
STLbiggestfan wrote:Some anecdotal information. I sat inbetween two Baltimore-based flight attendants on a St. Louis-Baltimore SWA flight recently. I asked them how flight traffic has been iand out of STL from Balt lately and if it's picked-up. Both are based in Balt so they fly the routes regularly. One said every flight theyve flown this summer has been full, and the other said all except "2 or 3" have been full. Both said theyve seen a noticable increase in traffic over-and-above the heavy summer travel season.
I think that this is true for pretty much all airlines, all routes. As capacity has been reduced in the domestic market (shifting capacity to international flying by many airlines, as well as some aircraft retirements), just about everyone has been running on extremely high load factors. Factor in some bad weather across mid-continent and east coast hubs, and you have many displaced passengers filling up the flights that are operating.
LAMBERT INTERNATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTINUES TO GROW
September 2007: Total Enplaned Passengers for the month of July 2007 have increased 6.7% over July 2006. Total number of passengers boarding for July 2007 were 760,642. Originating Enplanements are up 5.0% and Connecting Enplanements were up by 11.9% from 2006.
(FYI: In July 2004, after American Airlines cuts, Lambert was seeing a total number of passengers boarding at 451,804)
(FYI: In July 1995 Lambert was seeing a total number of passengers boarding at 517,961)
Today at 760,642 in July - Lambert is definately seeing good growth.
September 2007: Total Enplaned Passengers for the month of July 2007 have increased 6.7% over July 2006. Total number of passengers boarding for July 2007 were 760,642. Originating Enplanements are up 5.0% and Connecting Enplanements were up by 11.9% from 2006.
(FYI: In July 2004, after American Airlines cuts, Lambert was seeing a total number of passengers boarding at 451,804)
(FYI: In July 1995 Lambert was seeing a total number of passengers boarding at 517,961)
Today at 760,642 in July - Lambert is definately seeing good growth.
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wow, who knew? For perspective, how do these #'s compare with other cities...
I love this thread. one thing though, I'm not as familiar with all the abbreviated airport codes, outside of the obvious ones... I'd also be interested to see how our numbers compare to other cities.
New service to Springfield, IL....
"And on Nov. 4, American affiliate American Eagle will begin flying two daily round-trip flights between St. Louis and Springfield, Ill., on 50-seat Embraer 145 regional jets."
"And on Nov. 4, American affiliate American Eagle will begin flying two daily round-trip flights between St. Louis and Springfield, Ill., on 50-seat Embraer 145 regional jets."
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STLMO314 wrote:New service to Springfield, IL....
"And on Nov. 4, American affiliate American Eagle will begin flying two daily round-trip flights between St. Louis and Springfield, Ill., on 50-seat Embraer 145 regional jets."
I mentioned this additional flight from AA in an earlier post. Springfield, IL IATA code is "SPI." Who even would bother to fly there when they can just drive for a lot cheaper in 2 hours. Why even deal with airport security and those small RJs? By the time you goto the airport, go through security, get airbourne, your can already drive to Springfield. Seriously, AA continues to hose STL with pointless flights and continues to force us to fly to either DFW or ORD to connecting flights. They need to add more worthy destinations, not to places like Springfield.
Like I said previously, I rather see flights to YYZ (Toronto Pearson), YVR (Vancouver), ONT (Ontario, CA), SJC (San Jose, CA), BUF (Buffalo-Niagara), CDG (Paris), and LGW (London Gatwick). Hopefully, AA has the balls to give us some of these. Though I heavily doubt they will.
WN recently cut several routes (system wide, however none of which involved STL), and has deferred delivery of some 737s. They are unlikely to add many new routes at Lambert Field, however there has been some talk of them operating STL-DEN starting in November, but nothing is official. I wouldn't expect many new routes out of them at this time.
innov8ion wrote:
I really don't understand how continuing to pay for naming rights to the stadium helps out the community in any fashion. I could care less about the name... Perhaps you can elaborate.
I am trying to say that if they were really committed to our area, they wouldn't be withdrawing their presence around the community.
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10-intuition wrote:STLMO314 wrote:New service to Springfield, IL....
"And on Nov. 4, American affiliate American Eagle will begin flying two daily round-trip flights between St. Louis and Springfield, Ill., on 50-seat Embraer 145 regional jets."
I mentioned this additional flight from AA in an earlier post. Springfield, IL IATA code is "SPI." Who even would bother to fly there when they can just drive for a lot cheaper in 2 hours. Why even deal with airport security and those small RJs? By the time you goto the airport, go through security, get airbourne, your can already drive to Springfield. Seriously, AA continues to hose STL with pointless flights and continues to force us to fly to either DFW or ORD to connecting flights. They need to add more worthy destinations, not to places like Springfield.
My guess is that the point of adding an additional flight to SPI is to help out customers in SPI rather than those of us in STL, giving them another option and more available flights to connect with. AA is trying to make money, and they obviously must see potential in another daily trip to SPI.
ricke002 wrote:10-intuition wrote:STLMO314 wrote:New service to Springfield, IL....
"And on Nov. 4, American affiliate American Eagle will begin flying two daily round-trip flights between St. Louis and Springfield, Ill., on 50-seat Embraer 145 regional jets."
I mentioned this additional flight from AA in an earlier post. Springfield, IL IATA code is "SPI." Who even would bother to fly there when they can just drive for a lot cheaper in 2 hours. Why even deal with airport security and those small RJs? By the time you goto the airport, go through security, get airbourne, your can already drive to Springfield. Seriously, AA continues to hose STL with pointless flights and continues to force us to fly to either DFW or ORD to connecting flights. They need to add more worthy destinations, not to places like Springfield.
My guess is that the point of adding an additional flight to SPI is to help out customers in SPI rather than those of us in STL, giving them another option and more available flights to connect with. AA is trying to make money, and they obviously must see potential in another daily trip to SPI.
Correct...seems that AA is trying to build a niche for St. Louis around connecting flights to small cities around the Midwest that have no/limited service to other AA hubs. Makes it possible for someone to get from San Francisco to Springfield (MO or IL), Miami to Moline, etc...
I mentioned this additional flight from AA in an earlier post. Springfield, IL IATA code is "SPI." Who even would bother to fly there when they can just drive for a lot cheaper in 2 hours. Why even deal with airport security and those small RJs? By the time you goto the airport, go through security, get airbourne, your can already drive to Springfield.
It isn't about STLians flying to Springfield at all.
American connection traffic in STL is up 11.9% this last month alone and continually rises. THAT is exactly the market for AA here in STL. With American Connection flights out of STL they are serving cities like Springfield that have limited service on major airlines and very limited service to cities. With Springfield to STL (and vice versa) flights - AA is connecting passengers through STLs hub and in turn is winning passenger service to Springfield and ultimately through it's STL hub.
TWA did exactly that as well. TWA had more destinations from their NYC hub (domestic and internationally) than from their main hub in STL - but their connection traffice in STL was huge!!!
AA is definately beefing up connection traffic in STL and that is fine... it also beefs up St. Louis International's passenger totals.
Today Lambert-STL has non-stop service to 88 destination cities. When TWA was taken over by AA - Lambert was offering around 90 non-stop destinations.
I am trying to say that if they were really committed to our area, they wouldn't be withdrawing their presence around the community.
On the contrary... just because AA dropped the dome naming rights has nothing to do with "commitment" to the community. TWA had licensed naming rights to the dome... not AA, nor did the dome extend those naming rights to AA.
Yet AA still advertises strongly throughout the metro/city area. They are also the official airlines of The Muny, The Fox Theatre and many other large organizations in the city.
On a side note:
These are some interesting links:
Look at TWA's Flight Route Map (right before they went offline):
http://web.archive.org/web/200111111337 ... merica.pdf
Look at TWA's Website right before they went offline:
http://web.archive.org/web/200110262057 ... w.twa.com/
*note: you may have to refreesh your page several times to see all content - links do work on the site though!
Look at American Airline's STL Route Maps (Nonstop service) Today:
(There are three maps - AA, American Connection (Tran States and Chautauqua Airlines):
http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/Ame ... _STL.shtml
http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/Ame ... uqua.shtml
http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/Ame ... ates.shtml
http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/Ame ... ines.shtml
Another good headline for STL may have surfaced just a few weeks ago (below). AA may be overall beefing up 2008 in STL traffic period. From what I am hearing from a former TWA pilot that was called back (based in STL with TWA - lives south of Indy) - they have now interviewed him twice since the call back and he said the flights he would be brought back on are STL bound and outbound flights resuming in December / January 2008 - according to this furloughed pilot.
headline:
American Airlines recalls 460 former TWA flight attendants
St. Louis Business Journal - August 15, 2007
American Airlines said Wednesday that it plan on sending recall notices to 460 furloughed former TWA flight attendants to address staffing needs and projected attrition through the remainder of this year.
American has been bringing back pilots in St. Louis for the last 14 months, and the pace started picking up last November, Rhonda Hamm-Niebruegge, managing director of St. Louis hub operations for American Airlines, told the Business Journal in March.
This most recent recall is comprised of former TWA flight attendants and is in addition to the approximately 200 American Airlines and former TWA furloughed flight attendants contacted earlier this year.
Those flight attendants who accept the recall and meet all requirements will be eligible to return to service in either November or December 2007. Since 2003, American has conducted a total of five flight attendant recalls, contacting more than 1,900 AA and former TWA furloughed flight attendants, according to a release.
Fort Worth, Texas-based American Airlines is the operating arm of AMR Corp. (NYSE: AMR) and has operations in St. Louis.
STL Business Journal August 15, 2007
matguy70 wrote:
TWA did exactly that as well. TWA had more destinations from their NYC hub (domestic and internationally) than from their main hub in STL - but their connection traffice in STL was huge!!!
Today Lambert-STL has non-stop service to 88 destination cities. When TWA was taken over by AA - Lambert was offering around 90 non-stop destinations.
Great links - thanks!
Are you sure about the STL vs JFK thing for TWA? By the end, there was very little European flying out of JFK, although Caribbean flying was beefed up quite a bit. TW had very little domestic feed into JFK other than LAX, SFO, STL and a few Florida flights.
As far as non-stop service out of STL, I think the difference is that many of those destinations are served by only 1 airline anymore...and/or mainline service has been replaced by RJ service (ATL, DEN, EWR, PHL, MKE, and BWI) come to mind, for example.
Cities that have lost nonstop scheduled service off the top of my head include LGW, CDG, PDX, SJC, HNL, OGG, SJU, COS, MEX, YVR, SUX, CUN and some seasonal service like Steamboat, Puerto Vallarta, etc. I'm sure there are others...
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stlterp wrote:
Correct...seems that AA is trying to build a niche for St. Louis around connecting flights to small cities around the Midwest that have no/limited service to other AA hubs. Makes it possible for someone to get from San Francisco to Springfield (MO or IL), Miami to Moline, etc...
Sadly, you can't fly direct from MLI to STL anymore. (You can get to ORD, DEN, DFW, MCO, ATL, DTW, MEM, LAS, and MSP however) That stopped shortly after TWA disappeared. But your/my point is still valid.
Did anyone catch on Entourage 2 weeks ago, Johnny Chase talks about trying to get to Cannes, France, and having to take a connecting from LA to St. Louis to connect to Paris. Definately not possible on commercial airlines.
"Today Lambert-STL has non-stop service to 88 destination cities. When TWA was taken over by AA - Lambert was offering around 90 non-stop destinations. "
Where do you get this number from? I counted 65 total domestic destinations served by all airlines at Lambert from Lambert's website.
Where do you get this number from? I counted 65 total domestic destinations served by all airlines at Lambert from Lambert's website.