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PostJul 09, 2007#176

Grover wrote:^ Cleveland too. I tend to like the locations that are immediately in the airport, but the short bus ride isn't bad.


Most of the on-airport rental facilities are going away. I think Las Vegas' new center has a community bus (which is cool so that way you don't have to wait for a specific companie's shuttle) that takes you to the pickup center that looks like a mall food court. Then you walk outside and get your car.



If it's a small airport I like being able to pick up right there. I recently flew in and out of Austin Texas and everything is right there. Then again some airports are such zoos that I prefer the remote location and not having to fight in and out.
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PostJul 17, 2007#177

I just flew out to SFO and back last week, and the 757's were full. So I'm surprised they are switching to smaller planes and forcing more of us to competing airlines. (Albert Pujols and family were on the plane back.)
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PostJul 17, 2007#178

I hate AA, yes they are slowly bringing back flights, but mainly in smaller MD-80s. They rather continue to use their DFW and O'Hare hubs to the fullest and make us in STL connect flights there.



Gone are the days when seeing a TWA 747, 767, or L-1011 at Lambert was a common site. :(



AA sent me an email petitioning on getting another direct flight from Chicago to Beijing. They want people like me to sign their petition, but I ain't signing it. UAL already has a similar flight from Chicago to Beijing. I fly back to China often and I use UAL's ORD-PEK flights.



AA also has a Chicago to Shanghai route using their 777 since last year. I sent them a nasty email the other day asking them why they continue to screw over STL, and why don't they bring this flight option to STL or flights to Europe. I'd rather see Delta get their Atlanta to Shanghai route approved by the gov't later this year. Why have another one at O'Hare? O'Hare is too congested and when some bad weather hits, it gets worse!
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PostJul 17, 2007#179

Service to China has been a very competitive issue in the airline industry...AA tried DFW-PEK which didn't get approved. DL is working for service from ATL and NW is working for service from DTW. You are preaching to the choir...O'Hare is too congested and if AA decided to expand here at STL, there costs per passenger boarded would not only decrease here, I think it would also decrease at ORD. Right now, it is cheaper for AA to board a passenger at ORD than at STL. If they could move 10% of their mainline (American Airlines branded service) capacity here from ORD, things would be more efficent for everyone involved. I spend a lot of time at airports myself, and O'Hare certainly isn't enjoyable. For the immediate future at Lambert, we can only expect a few new flights, a couple new plants in the terminal, a fresh coat of paint here and there, and POSSIBLY getting Jetblue here next year. AirTran has expressed an interest in expanding here as well. I would expect them to start some combination of the following in the near future:

*Las Vegas (B737)

*Miami (B737)

*Sarasota/Bradenton (B717)
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PostJul 18, 2007#180

I remember back when I flew on a Delta Airlines L-1011 from St. Louis to Atlanta. I wonder if they use those anymore? I also remember watching my parents flying on a 747 from St. Louis to London. Those were the days :?
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PostJul 18, 2007#181

TWA phased out their 747s in 1997 due to rising operating costs. The 767-300 provided better passenger comfort, was quieter, and more fuel efficent. STL-LGW was operated by a 767-200/300 by TWA up until 2002, when AA took over and operated the route with their crew and aircraft. They also reduced the service to 6x weekly, and then shortly replaced it with daily service. I can recall ONE (1) time I was on this route and AA swapped a 777, although it wasn't the scheduled aircraft.



Delta phased out their L-1011s in late 2001 with Boeing 767-400s (777 sytle interior, modern electronics, largest 767 product). These aircraft serve long haul and select domestic routes out of JFK, ATL, and SLC. CVG doesn't see ANY 777s or 764s. Currently, Delta operates their MD-88s on the STL-ATL route, along with a few CRJ-700/900 by regional partnert Atlantic Southeast Airlines (refered to by DL employees as "ASA"). On this route, you will ocassionally see a Boeing 737-800. I haven't traveled this route since early June, and the FA said they rearely use a 757-200 (with PTVs and live on-demand service!) on this route. Just a word to the wise: If you are taking this route, avoid ASA. Their crew training program is terrible, they are always late, and for a regional airline they have loose/damage the most bags. Although the MD-88s may be old and loud, you will haev a much better experience on mainline DL.
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PostJul 31, 2007#182

just got back from italy. if you never been, go. beautiful place. but what i have that is relevant here is that we took off from jfk, but waited in the gate for 2 hours with the enigines off because they did not have permission to turn them on. so we sat there for two hours, no a/c, no lights because the power generater was not ment to last that long. then after we left the gate, we waited another 1/2 hour taixing to the runway because EVERYOTHER plane that went to europe wanted to leave the same time. now lambert will never get that many planes, and i hope it never gets to be that way anywhere else, but lambert would be a good place to help prevent that from happening elsewehre.
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PostJul 31, 2007#183

just got back from italy. if you never been, go. beautiful place. but what i have that is relevant here is that we took off from jfk, but waited in the gate for 2 hours with the enigines off because they did not have permission to turn them on. so we sat there for two hours, no a/c, no lights because the power generater was not ment to last that long. then after we left the gate, we waited another 1/2 hour taixing to the runway because EVERYOTHER plane that went to europe wanted to leave the same time. now lambert will never get that many planes, and i hope it never gets to be that way anywhere else, but lambert would be a good place to help prevent that from happening elsewehre.


So you flew STL-JFK-FCO (Rome)? It's not uncommon to wait at a gate at JFK. AA has significant presence there, as does DL, as does B6 (IATA code for JetBlue), and 95 other airlines serve the airport, resulting in congestion.



While having service to Europe would be an asset to our community, I highly dobut we will be getting any soon. One big think that worked in our advantage was airline degregulation (aka open skies) in the EU. This would allow say British Airways or Air France to begin almost any route, pending they can get a slot. Currently, AA only has the rights for STL-LGW which has not operated since November 2003.



To put it simply, don't expect Alitalia in St. Louis. They have operations at O'Hare, JFK, and other major cities. We only have 85-100 per day (point to point) going to London (Gatwick and Heathrow combined) from STL, and Italy is much, much less.



While this may sound like a good idea to send some traffic to Lambert, airlines would rather have O/D (origin-destination) and connecting traffic. This maximizes the usage of their fleets, and allows them to better route aircraft and crew.
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PostAug 02, 2007#184

Currently, AA only has the rights for STL-LGW which has not operated since November 2003.


W.T,F?! so, can't they be "reclaimed"? purchased back by the city?? How can St. Louis open up to be THE international destination? Zero taxes at the airport? what can be done? Our airport is a JOKE. International flights are only to Toronto and Mexico, right? No more European flights at all... very sad.
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PostAug 02, 2007#185

Only charter flights to Mexico, IIRC. Also when looking at the departure info, I didn't see any going to Toronto. Face it, with a few exceptions, Lambert is pretty much a regional airport.
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PostAug 02, 2007#186

As far as international flights, there are 4 routes (not including charters). I dont know if any are seasonal...



STL - Cancun (Frontier and USA3000)



STL - Toronto (Air Canada)



STL - Puerto Vallarta (American)



STL - Punta Cana, DR (USA 3000)



Calling the airport a joke is a little rough. With minimal delays, an open runway, and nonstops to about 65 domestic cities, it's not half bad, and even though American's hub isnt huge it allows for other carriers to enter the market and lower prices (i.e. Southwest). Lambert was one of the 30 busiest airports in the WORLD less than 10 years ago, and St. Louis' metro population of 2.7 million is definately not top 30, so we got really lucky with that. I think people like to complain because we arent at the level we once were, which was well above normal considering our size.



That being said, it's a little ridiculous we dont have any European flights while other smaller cities do. Hopefully open skies will change that. It would be great for St. Louis or Midamerica to have overseas Ryan Air cheap flights some day. Its also a little ridiculous we dont have Jetblue yet while many smaller cities do. Otherwise I think we're doing just fine for a metro area of our size.
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PostAug 02, 2007#187

It would be nice if another airline to the bay area was in the cards, like Jet Blue to Oakland, or VA to SFO. Does anyone know if there was ever a nonstop from STL to anywhere in the Bay Area other than SFO?
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PostAug 05, 2007#188

Yes - TW definitely had nonstops to SJC (San Jose)...MD-80 service. Not sure if Oakland was ever served.
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PostAug 05, 2007#189

captainjackass wrote:It would be nice if another airline to the bay area was in the cards, like Jet Blue to Oakland, or VA to SFO. Does anyone know if there was ever a nonstop from STL to anywhere in the Bay Area other than SFO?


Up until 2003, we had daily non-stops to SJC on AA.



As for Oakland, WN (Southwest) could possibly start one non-stop per day, as they have a flight attendant base there. However, I would sincerely doubt that will happen this year as WN just cut many routes out of Oakland, particularly trans con routes to cities like Philadelphia.



AA likely won't start that route either. Presently, we have two (2) Boeing 757s to SFO daily, however on 9/5/2007, we will be down to one (1) MD-80 and one (1) Boeing 757. This is a significant drop in capacity on that route. The 757 will be on the evening departure.

PostAug 05, 2007#190

STLMO314 wrote:As far as international flights, there are 4 routes (not including charters). I dont know if any are seasonal...



STL - Cancun (Frontier and USA3000)



STL - Toronto (Air Canada)



STL - Puerto Vallarta (American)



STL - Punta Cana, DR (USA 3000)



Calling the airport a joke is a little rough. With minimal delays, an open runway, and nonstops to about 65 domestic cities, it's not half bad, and even though American's hub isnt huge it allows for other carriers to enter the market and lower prices (i.e. Southwest). Lambert was one of the 30 busiest airports in the WORLD less than 10 years ago, and St. Louis' metro population of 2.7 million is definately not top 30, so we got really lucky with that. I think people like to complain because we arent at the level we once were, which was well above normal considering our size.



That being said, it's a little ridiculous we dont have any European flights while other smaller cities do. Hopefully open skies will change that. It would be great for St. Louis or Midamerica to have overseas Ryan Air cheap flights some day. Its also a little ridiculous we dont have Jetblue yet while many smaller cities do. Otherwise I think we're doing just fine for a metro area of our size.


Air Canada operates twice daily service to Toronto on CRJ-100/200 aircraft. We haven't had any mainline Air Canada (737 or A319) since the late 1990s. However, I would expect with more deliveries of CRJ 900 and Embraer 190/170, they will replace the CRJ 100 with that. The 190 is a wonderful modern, sleek aircraft with on demand TV in every seat. It makes for an excellent flight.



Cancun is seasonally operated 3x weekly on Frontier with A319 aircraft. Cancun is also operated year round, for the most part (with exceptions) on USA3000 with A320 aircraft. They also serve Punta Cana year round for the most part with the A320. AA serves PVR (Puerto Vallarta) seasonally with Saturday only service on the MD-80. In the past, this route has always sold out and I'm surprised they haven't had it 3/4 times per week. F9 (Frontier) has been serving this route at MCI (Kansas City), and would probably do well here serving that route. AA has not committed to operating it yet this winter, as it hasn't been uploaded into the system. (I'd expect to see it in by October if they plan to operate it Dec 07-Apr 08 like they did last season)
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PostAug 06, 2007#191

Flights out of STL, like the rest of the country, have been really full. Not quite seeing the "wall of people" coming at you as you head down the C Concourse, but it's busier than it has been in the past year or two. Certainly are a lot of RJs around, though, including my frequent ATL trips. Have thought that AA getting rid of the 717s was a big mistake, even if it was a fleet commonality issue.



Miss the days of 7-8x LAX including a 763 or two, flying flight 3 to OGG, 720 to LGW and a forgotten flight # (824?) to CDG. Spending way more time than I'd care to at ORD and DFW...



It is nice flying in and out where you know that taxi time will be limited, and as long as you don't check bags, getting in and out is really quick.
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PostAug 06, 2007#192

stlterp wrote:Flights out of STL, like the rest of the country, have been really full. Not quite seeing the "wall of people" coming at you as you head down the C Concourse, but it's busier than it has been in the past year or two. Certainly are a lot of RJs around, though, including my frequent ATL trips. Have thought that AA getting rid of the 717s was a big mistake, even if it was a fleet commonality issue.



Miss the days of 7-8x LAX including a 763 or two, flying flight 3 to OGG, 720 to LGW and a forgotten flight # (824?) to CDG. Spending way more time than I'd care to at ORD and DFW...



It is nice flying in and out where you know that taxi time will be limited, and as long as you don't check bags, getting in and out is really quick.


Unfortunately those days are gone. I miss the 763s to LAX and MCO just as much as anyone else. Now we're stuck with MD-80s and an occassional 757. As for the 717s, it wasn't a big mistake for AA to get rid of them. It also wasn't a big mistake for them to cancel TW's outstanding A318 and A330 orders. While the 717 may have been a great aircraft for the STL market (which it is given the range, capacity, and opeating costs) AA didn't see 28 aircraft as worth keeping.



Pre-9/11 738s were on track to replace every MD-80 by 2005 or so, (before they got all the TW MD-80s and the industry was in good shape). It wouldn't have been a good choice to keep the 717s and cover the maintanence and training costs. In fact, I keep a record of all my flights with tail #s, and I was on an ex-TWA aircraft for AirTran last week that I was on STL-LGA July 2001.



For your trips to ATL, I'd avoid AirTran. Their baggage services are terrible-I waited an hour for luggage at M5 last week! Stick with DL-frequent MD 88s and an occassional 738 on that route.
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PostAug 06, 2007#193

Is this reduction in capacity to SFO temporary, contingent on delivery of new aircraft, or reassignment?
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PostAug 06, 2007#194

The 717 wouldn't only have been good for St. Louis, but other markets where density may not support the capacity of a MD80/737, but a 37-50 seat ERJ isn't enough.



I've flown DL down to Atlanta once, and that was a disaster. Unfortunately, I'm stuck w/ AA and the RJs, as I have status with them and it makes things easier...I don't check bags, so that's not an issue.



AA is getting rid of all the ex-TWA 757s, as well as retiring some MD80s, so their capacity is actually decreasing a bit. I'm sure that has something to do with some of the downgauges, as well as normal seasonal shifting.
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PostAug 06, 2007#195

stlterp wrote:The 717 wouldn't only have been good for St. Louis, but other markets where density may not support the capacity of a MD80/737, but a 37-50 seat ERJ isn't enough.



I've flown DL down to Atlanta once, and that was a disaster. Unfortunately, I'm stuck w/ AA and the RJs, as I have status with them and it makes things easier...I don't check bags, so that's not an issue.



AA is getting rid of all the ex-TWA 757s, as well as retiring some MD80s, so their capacity is actually decreasing a bit. I'm sure that has something to do with some of the downgauges, as well as normal seasonal shifting.


The ex-TWA 757s should be gone by the end of next month. They are going to DL, as a used order from IFLC. They will completely refurbish the aircraft and install AVOD. Some of the ex-TWA 757s are from 1997, 1998, 1999, and therefore have plenty of life left in them.



As for the MD-80s, 25-30 are in storage at Fort Worth Alliance Maintanence base and likely won't be coming out anytime soon. No MD-80s will be retired until the first 738 delivery in 2009.



STL-SFO will probably go back to 757s with demand, and possibly a 738 in several years. UA may start this route a the A320, as they continue to grow in SFO. I'm sure some business travelers would welcome them with open arms. It would also be great for pass travelers, as there would be more seats on that route.
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PostAug 07, 2007#196

A UA nonstop to SFO would be great, especially if it fed their Asian flights. Currently requires a stop in ORD or DEN to connect to United, unless you want to interline. AA's service to Asia is a joke...



I'd imagine that we'd see some more airlines try to cherry pick some point-to-point service, a la Air Tran, and we'll see if AA decides to fight or further reduce its service to basically ORD, DFW, MIA and a couple of token flights to places like LGA, DCA and LAX.
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PostAug 07, 2007#197

stlterp wrote:A UA nonstop to SFO would be great, especially if it fed their Asian flights. Currently requires a stop in ORD or DEN to connect to United, unless you want to interline. AA's service to Asia is a joke...



I'd imagine that we'd see some more airlines try to cherry pick some point-to-point service, a la Air Tran, and we'll see if AA decides to fight or further reduce its service to basically ORD, DFW, MIA and a couple of token flights to places like LGA, DCA and LAX.


What do you mean 'AA's service to Asia is a joke...'?

They have nice service to NRT from JFK, ORD, DFW, LAX, and until recently SJC. They are all operated by 777s in a three class congif. While there service is not as good as Singapore (which is regarded as the best by many), it is still good. Many years ago (2000-2001) there was talk of an STL-NRT route. TWA announced and applied for that route, and got it approved for daily service with Boeing 767-200, however they couldn't get a slot at NRT.



Another flight that would be great is if we could have NW operate STL-IND. AA charges $400 non-stop, and WN doesn't even serve the route. (You can't buy a ticket for STL-IND on WN, even with a connection at MDW). FL (AirTran) may start this route, considering they are building up here much like they have at IND.
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PostAug 07, 2007#198

b777stl wrote:
stlterp wrote:A UA nonstop to SFO would be great, especially if it fed their Asian flights. Currently requires a stop in ORD or DEN to connect to United, unless you want to interline. AA's service to Asia is a joke...



I'd imagine that we'd see some more airlines try to cherry pick some point-to-point service, a la Air Tran, and we'll see if AA decides to fight or further reduce its service to basically ORD, DFW, MIA and a couple of token flights to places like LGA, DCA and LAX.


What do you mean 'AA's service to Asia is a joke...'?

They have nice service to NRT from JFK, ORD, DFW, LAX, and until recently SJC. They are all operated by 777s in a three class congif. While there service is not as good as Singapore (which is regarded as the best by many), it is still good. Many years ago (2000-2001) there was talk of an STL-NRT route. TWA announced and applied for that route, and got it approved for daily service with Boeing 767-200, however they couldn't get a slot at NRT.



Another flight that would be great is if we could have NW operate STL-IND. AA charges $400 non-stop, and WN doesn't even serve the route. (You can't buy a ticket for STL-IND on WN, even with a connection at MDW). FL (AirTran) may start this route, considering they are building up here much like they have at IND.


I have flown the NRT flights several times on AA. The only places you can get in Asia on AA is NRT and PVG (one flight a day from ORD) The route structure is there really, really weak. Yes, there are One World partners in Cathay and now JAL, but as far as on AA metal, there's not much there. The new Admiral's Club at Narita is gorgeous, but that's about it. In terms of service, really hit or miss on AA, and their "new" generation business class is really what others were doing 3-4 years ago. We just got back from a trip in JL's business class, and there's no comparison - JL, and it's not even close.



In terms of additional long-haul service from STL, I'd be really happy with daily flights to London, San Juan and Honolulu.
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PostAug 07, 2007#199

b777stl wrote:
Another flight that would be great is if we could have NW operate STL-IND. AA charges $400 non-stop, and WN doesn't even serve the route. (You can't buy a ticket for STL-IND on WN, even with a connection at MDW). FL (AirTran) may start this route, considering they are building up here much like they have at IND.


I remember when I studied/university in Indiana I flew out of IND to head home for some weekends. Between 2000-02 there were Southwest flights from IND-STL and STL-IND. I remember they didn't have to stop at MDW or anywhere else, it was a direct flight that left IND around 5:30pm and arrived here around 6:20pm.



As for AA, I flew on their O'Crap-PVG (Shanghai Pudong) flight last year it wasn't bad, the B777 was nice, much better than those old B747 UAL uses for their O'Crap-PEK route. Speaking of UAL, last Christmas I flew on UAL to Beijing and the B747 suffered a massive engine problem as the plane took off, losing 2 of the 4 engines and it had to make an emergency landing back at ORD. We sat on the tarmac for over 5 hours before they fixed the engines and resumed flight. Everytime I use ORD there is always a delay of some sort! Just the slightest rain or problem will cause a delay. I hate it!



AA continues to hose STL, while they continue to add more flights and traffic to an already congested O'Crap! :x
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PostAug 07, 2007#200


I have flown the NRT flights several times on AA. The only places you can get in Asia on AA is NRT and PVG (one flight a day from ORD) The route structure is there really, really weak. Yes, there are One World partners in Cathay and now JAL, but as far as on AA metal, there's not much there. The new Admiral's Club at Narita is gorgeous, but that's about it. In terms of service, really hit or miss on AA, and their "new" generation business class is really what others were doing 3-4 years ago. We just got back from a trip in JL's business class, and there's no comparison - JL, and it's not even close.



In terms of additional long-haul service from STL, I'd be really happy with daily flights to London, San Juan and Honolulu.


Now I see what you are getting at. Yes, the route structure from O'Hare could be improved, as BKK or ICN for example could be served. I haven't been in the new Admirals club at NRT (I can't w/ pass travel), but the pictures look wonderful. It's probably like the terminal D at DFW admirals club.



Also, I flew on a 767-300 for DFW-CDG and I was in the next generation business-very nice, but much like what BA and others did 6-7 years back. JL is excellent, although they are really trying to compete up at ORD much like BA has been doing for years.



Another option you may like is ANA. They are wonderful and are the launch customer of the 787. Their 777s have little office nooks that are nice if you want to stretch your legs. They have a wonderful business class, the only drawback is that they codeshare with UA not AA. [/quote]
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